Skiz learnz weldz

[Skizzer]

As the proud/embarrassed owner of several vehicles renowned for their powers of oxidisation, culminating in a Matra/Simca with broderie anglaise sills, I decided it was time to learn to MIG weld.

 

I know various of us have made noises about learning to weld so I thought I'd do a thread about my Learning Experience [TM] in case anyone is interested, or wants to laugh at me, or simply to avoid cluttering up the Rancho / news / grump threads.

 

The Rancho came with a working Cebora (aka Snap-On) welder, some nitrogen/CO2 mix and a reel of what looks like 0.8mm wire. A couple of people on here said it's a crap machine, but it did all the welding on the previous owner's excellent Cortina restoration so it can't be that terrible. And the same people mostly say ALL MODERN WELDERZ IS SHIT and I'm not spending a grand on a Portamig, so this is what I've got.

 

I added an auto-darkening welding mask and some 1.1mm sheet steel to a recent Frost order to make up enough to qualify for free shipping, and got a welding-rated overall, some gauntlets and a 2kg powder fire extinguisher from Machine Mart.

 

Here I am, all health-and-safetied up and ready to go:

 

 

The mask has blue flaming skulls on it. I don't know why.

 

I turned the power to 5 (out of 7) and turned the gas on, and did a couple of tacks. They were supposed to be lines, but I hadn't fixed the sheet to anything and pushing the tip just chased the steel around the floor, so I'm calling them tacks.

 

 

Ok, the first one is just a hole, but the others don't look too awful and they even penetrate through to the other side nicely. I did a little lap of honour in the shed to celebrate the fact that my mask worked and I could still see, and hadn't set fire to anything.

 

Time for some actual lines. I braced the metal sheet against a heavy axle stand and had another go:

 

 

Ok, they're a bit shit and certainly look like somebody's first welds. But they could have been worse, right?

 

Well, yes, because the next try definitely was worse:

 

 

Even I know that surface spatter means not enough gas, but no amount of fiddling with the pressure tap on the regulator seemed to help. Eventually I realised that I hadn't actually opened the main tap on the gas tank enough. Doh.

 

I did half a decent attempt but then this happened:

 

 

Yup, I held the tip too close and melted the wire into it. Bugger.

 

So I left everything to cool off and went to drill holes in some wood instead. Next time: changing the tip and maybe, who knows, a decent weld.

 

This could take a while.

[anonymous user]

For a moment I thought you were Spiderman, then I realised the photo was rotated

[anonymous user]

That's not fair you have edited it

[Skizzer]

Just because the photo was rotated doesn't mean I'm not Spiderman, you know. Now de-rotated.

[tooSavvy]

Ah.... 'cars need sparkly stick'.... will deffo remember that one

 

Get Stuck [not tip] INNNNNNNNNNNNNNN GR9

 

Muchho Kahunnas m8

 

 

TS

[beko1987]

Same here, you're doing better than me! I'd love to learn, but lack space, time, and the tiny bit of welding the xantia needs will be cheaper to pay someone else to do it than buy the kit and have a go

[wuvvum]

Keep it up and you might embarrass me into pulling my finger out and sorting out my welding skillz - I haven't fired up my MIG in over a year.

[seth]

A coupe of thoughts that I hope might be helpful

 

Not sure why you were chasing the metal around the floor in your first attempt.  There shouldn't be any force going in to the welded area.  The wire should melt into the base metal without pushing back at all.   Have you watched someone welding or looked up YouTube vids or anything?  Just, it is very helpful to know what is supposed to be happening.

 

Does the helmet have adjustable levels of darkness?  If you can't see what you are doing try turning it down a bit.

 

I would be surprised that that machine would need to be up as far as '5' to weld 1.1mm sheet.  I know when I first started welding I had a tendency to be all excited about it and move too fast with too much power.  It can actually be a relatively slow process with quite fine movements involved.  I'd suggest turning the power right down to 1 or 2 and trying again. If the wire is pushing back then the wire speed it too fast.

 

While you're pracising it is probably best to get a feel for the amount of metal that is melting and then worry about the benefits of full penetration once you feel you have some more control.

[cort16]

The metal has to be clean or it'll spit and splatter. Even if it looks clean without sanding it down or wire brushing it it won't be.

You also need to get wire speed right. I've been doing it for years and sometimes still have trouble.

 

On thin metal you're best practising lots of little tacks strung together as any big burst of weld will blow holes in the metal and you'll spend half an hour chasing a hole around.

[danthecapriman]

Some of those don't look too bad at all for a first go!

It's a great skill to have if your into old cars. My mate taught me to weld then I just kept practicing on scrap for ages to get better.

Once you've mastered laying down nice little beads and lines, try lap joints, butt welds and internal and external corners. It all comes in handy for when the time comes to start on the car instead of scraps.

Another good thing to try is plug welding two bits together to replicate spot welds. Drill a hole through one piece of metal and then overlap it onto another piece and weld through the hole to join them. Very handy to get these weighed off!

I'd also recommend a spot weld drill and a hole punch joggler tool if you don't have them already, well worth having.

 

Well done for jumping in and starting, don't let it beat you though. It really is one of those skills where practice makes perfect.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Always wanted to learn to weld. My dad was recently given an old Clarke Arc welder, are they any use?

[Rocket88]

Always wanted to learn to weld. My dad was recently given an old Clarke Arc welder, are they any use?

 

For repairing bridges, yes...............for panels.................praps not

[danthecapriman]

I'm actually impressed that you bothered with the gloves and overalls. I still haven't bothered buying myself any! I just use whatever gloves that are to hand or I don't bother, I use a pair of old jeans and T shirt and sweatshirt in winter. They burn very easy though, I've set myself on fire a few times now!

[DodgyBastard]

It would probably be better to practice on slightly thicker steel. Sheet metal is difficult to run a weld on at the best of times.

 

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[DodgyBastard]

 

Here's some welding I did recently...

 

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[toejam]

Sharp intake of breath, check this guy out ! http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1282128&postcount=4

[jonathan_dyane]

You'll likely find it easier with 0.6 wire...

[HMC]

Looking forward to updates, this is something I've been making slow but steady progress with but need to stick at it.

[jakebullet]

Er is it really nitrogen / co2 mix? Cos if so you've got the wrong gas, you don't want nitrogen anywhere near it, that's the gas for Guinness.

 

Of course if it's actually argon / co2 carry on....

[Skizzer]

Thanks for the support and advice. I'm very open to advice. In particular, thinking back on it, less power and also less visor darkness both sound like very good ideas.

 

The tip looked a bit secondhand even before I welded it up, which maybe won't have helped the smoothness. I'll see what a new tip does.

 

I'm hoping to get time to do a bit more tomorrow morning, otherwise it'll be a couple of weeks before the next exciting* episode.

[Vin]

Good work Skizzwizz. When you get to the laying on the floor and welding upside down bit...cover your ears. I never did until I got stray splatter in me lugole...not pleasant at all.

[Skizzer]

Er is it really nitrogen / co2 mix? Cos if so you've got the wrong gas, you don't want nitrogen anywhere near it, that's the gas for Guinness.

 

Of course if it's actually argon / co2 carry on....

Says 70% nitrogen / 30% CO2 on the bottle, if I remember rightly. Ar/CO2 is what I'd have chosen myself, but this is what matey was using... wrongly?

[captain_70s]

Was playing with a ark welder t'other day on a roofskin of a Skoda Fabia. I think I did quite well all things considered, no holes and some good penetrating lines, but I'll probably never be able to do work on a car because I shake like buggery constantly, just don't have the steady hand for doing long runs sadly.

 

The bloke who is welding the Doloshite has a gasless MIG but he reckons the wire speed control is buggered as it just seems to spew out regardless and we got better results from the arc welder even on thin steel.

[Skizzer]

Here's some welding I did recently...

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Gosh, that's a bit special.

 

Reckon I'll need at least a couple more goes before mine looks like that

[OwdChina]

Good work Skizzwizz. When you get to the laying on the floor and welding upside down bit...cover your ears. I never did until I got stray splatter in me lugole...not pleasant at all.

Good advise, not pleasant is an understatement.

[jakebullet]

Says 70% nitrogen / 30% CO2 on the bottle, if I remember rightly. Ar/CO2 is what I'd have chosen myself, but this is what matey was using... wrongly?

 

Deffo wrong diddly wrong. You may be able to get it to weld, but welds won't be proper strong.

[garethj]

That's a good effort, well done.

 

You can see when a weld is good or bad, that's the first thing to get the hang of.  Troubleshooting is more difficult but I agree about turning the power down, even my pathetic old MIG will do something like 5mm steel so I rarely have the power setting on more than one third for car bodywork.  We all find our own way, but I find better consistency by putting the power a little higher than "normal" and pulsing the trigger to avoid distortion and blowing holes.  Maybe it'll work for you, maybe not.

 

Check the thickness of metal on your car, I thought 0.8mm was more common and if your repair panels are too much thicker it will be difficult to weld patches on.  Enough power to penetrate the thick panel and it'll blow a hole in the thin panel.

 

The main difference between welding lovely new sheet and knackered old cars is that the metal is never clean on an old car.  Unfortunately it needs to be clean for the weld to penetrate as rust is electrically insulating.  For ages I used a wire brush on a drill but then I moved onto a grinding disc on an angle grinder, a quick tickle and you're down to very clean metal immediately.

 

Stick at it!

[Tickman]

....Enough power to penetrate the thick panel and it'll blow a hole in the thin panel.....

If I am using thicker steel than what I am welding to I get the weld pool going on the thicker piece then work towards the thinner piece 'dragging' the pool to connect them.

 

Play with the settings on the mask as it makes such a difference to be able to see properly.

[garethj]

That's a sneaky trick, nice one.

[mouseflakes]

Good work Skizzwizz. When you get to the laying on the floor and welding upside down bit...cover your ears. I never did until I got stray splatter in me lugole...not pleasant at all.

 

I reckon this is the reason I've evolved hairy lugoles in my own lifetime. Keeps earwigs and hot blobs out*.

 

 

*might also repel the ladeez