My 1973 Cadillac, Huggy Bear

[montytom]

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I have never been a fan of american cars but lately I've been oddly drawn to a 1965-67 coupe de ville.

While yours is a bit newer it's a nice read.

I wish you all the best with the car.

5 years is some time. 

[eddyramrod]

3 hours ago, JeeExEll said:

Eddy is there anyone nearby you can get help from, you can't struggle with this on your own.  Even to get the Caddy mobile again. 

That's exactly why I've been waiting (and still am waiting) for John The Sparky to do a housecall, like he said he would.

2 hours ago, outlaw118 said:

Having pushed Huggy (with help) I can confirm he weighs a bloody shitload.

You'll do yourself an injury, hopefully the workers will assist in getting him back "home".

Edited to add: We're not saying you're incapable, but I'm twice your size and 10+ years younger, and would struggle on my own! We don't want Uncle Edd to keel over!

Yeah, he does!  Two and a half tons Imperial, give or take a couple of pounds.

The workies have said they will happily help when the time comes to push him back.  It's only a bit past twice his own length so it's not a big job, but it doesn't half sap me.

And thank you for those kind words! It's ok to call me incapable in this respect, I know it's true.

1 hour ago, Justwatching said:

I had a similar issue with my LTD when I let it sit for a few months. Wouldn't crank. I cleaned up all of the connections on the starter circuit with sandpaper, starting with the battery terminals then working back to the starter motor. Turned out to be the power supply for the starter motor on mine. It might not help, but it's a reasonable place to start begin. 

Thank you, that sounds very likely.  If I was able to get under and clean up the contact points, I would; it's the kind of thing I wouldn't have thought twice about a decade ago, but not any more.  I need John The Sparky.

42 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Yeah, if you can get heater fan, lights, all on and also roll the windows down at the same time with the ignition on your battery isn't too bad.

Sounds like the neutral switch. Will it start in P and N? I know a number of older cars had a cheap switch which meant P was the only option for the starter to operate. Sometimes a little bit of violent PRNDL-LDNRP action can either get the contacts worked enough to function or be pushed far enough to work.

Sounds like the lock barrel got wet, you might find a Fandango with the lock button and the interior door handle may free it up enough to get it unlocked.

 

Good luck. Yes, this does sound like UseItMore symptoms.

And thank you too Phil.  Neutral switch seems like a good contender and probably the first place to look once the contacts are all cleaned up.  Mrs6C said something similar upthread, and even back then I thought she could well be right.  I have tried running through the positions, because that at least is something I can do, but so far it hasn't had any effect.

The door... well I've tried wrestling with the button and handle.  Both inner and outer handle go through their full and correct tange of movement with no effect on the catch.  This, combined with the lock and interior button both stopping short of their Unlock positions, suggests to me that something has either got into the door and blocked the mechanism (possible, as the weatherstrips are not brilliant) or, just as likely, something has detached itself inside the door and has fallen into a position where it can't operate.  When I had the window down I did look into the door as best I could, but I couldn't see anything amiss.  It is, as Toyah sang, A Mystery.

And you're right, not using the car has done/is doing it No Good At All.

[eddyramrod]

4 minutes ago, montytom said:

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I have never been a fan of american cars but lately I've been oddly drawn to a 1965-67 coupe de ville.

While yours is a bit newer it's a nice read.

I wish you all the best with the car.

5 years is some time. 

Thank you.  I can totally understand why you'd be drawn to the 65-67 series: they are excellent cars.  My very first ride in a Cadillac was in a 66 Coupe deVille, in 1977, so there's a special place in my heart for that model.

[PhilA]

What does the passenger door do if you push the pin down and then operate the inside handle? Does it flap loose or does it pop the pin up and open the door?

[eddyramrod]

I haven't tried that!  I shall do, and report back.

[eddyramrod]

...And here is that report.

Pushing the outer button on the driver's door results in the button moving easily the full extent of its travel.  Doing the same on the passenger's door gives me pressure against my thumb.  With the door locked, that's it; with it unlocked, the door opens.  From inside, pushing down the lock button and pulling on the handle results in limited movement of the handle; pull the button up and I can feel the pressure of the mechanism operating, something that is missing from the driver's door.  This suggests to me that something has detached itself inside the door.  @PhilA, would you concur?

[PhilA]

Just now, eddyramrod said:

...And here is that report.

Pushing the outer button on the driver's door results in the button moving easily the full extent of its travel.  Doing the same on the passenger's door gives me pressure against my thumb.  With the door locked, that's it; with it unlocked, the door opens.  From inside, pushing down the lock button and pulling on the handle results in limited movement of the handle; pull the button up and I can feel the pressure of the mechanism operating, something that is missing from the driver's door.  This suggests to me that something has detached itself inside the door.  @PhilA, would you concur?

Yup, sounds like it. I'm thinking the mechanism is likely like that on my Plymouth- there is a rod that goes common from the inside door handle and a rod from the push button on the outside. That shares a common lever on the latch, with the lock pin and door handle lock sharing a second lever.

Possible the release lever has fallen off and is fouling the lock lever?

[eddyramrod]

That seems likely to me, yes.  So now I have to get the (two-piece) door card off from inside, where it isn't meant to come off, so that I can (hopefully) get a look at the mech and figure out what must be reattached.  Which will doubtless require pencil-thin fingers with 44 joints.

[PhilA]

Would get a bright flashlight and see if anything is visible down past the window first.

[eddyramrod]

Yep, already done that.  And nothing was visibly wrong.

[PhilA]

5 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

Yep, already done that.  And nothing was visibly wrong.

Nothing flapping about when you operate either/both inside and outside handles at once?

(That's also worth a try to see if it causes the lock pin to become not jammed)

[eddyramrod]

Nope.

[eddyramrod]

Well now...  I have spent half an hour or more laid out across the seats, undoing some of the screws that hold the door card in place.  I've managed to make a bit of a gap at the back edge of the door and I can just about get a finger in, but can't really do anything.  There are more screws holding the front of the card, masked by the dash.  Some more thinking required here!

However... I also had a bit of a play with the gearshift, running it through the positions... and only managed to get a start!  So I went for a little drive,  obviously!  It looks like the shift may well be the problem.  A word with a different garage may be in order, and may well happen in the morning.

Oh boy it felt good!

 

For Sale now.

[loserone]

5 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

For Sale now.

?!

[eddyramrod]

2 minutes ago, loserone said:

?!

It really needs someone who can look after it better than I can.

[PhilA]

Nah. This is just Regular Old Car Work.

 

Bits fall off, they get put back on. 

It's got another door... Use that one

[eddyramrod]

That's what I'm doing!  It's less than ideal though.

[Justwatching]

37 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

However... I also had a bit of a play with the gearshift, running it through the positions... and only managed to get a start!  So I went for a little drive,  obviously!  It looks like the shift may well be the problem. 

Think PhilA called it. If you got it to start by moving the shifter, the neutral safety switch is very suspect.

Progress!

[PhilA]

3 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

That's what I'm doing!  It's less than ideal though.

This is why bench seats were invented.

[outlaw118]

It's frustrating but at least there's progress.

If you were a bit closer i'd be there helping*

[eddyramrod]

We still have internet... it's amazing what can be accomplished.  Without the contributions from the esteemed @PhilA above, I might not have had "one more shot" at fiddling with the gearshift yesterday, and had I not done that, I wouldn't have had the remarkably energising cruise around the neighbourhood that I did have.  So big thanks to Phil - in Louisiana, lest we forget! - for lifting my general mood significantly!

[eddyramrod]

The workies finished today, so with confidence at a new high, I slid across Huggy's seat to drive him back into his proper berth.  Key... lights... nothing.  I wrestled with the shifter several times, still nothing.  Bo-lerks.

So once again I pushed him back where he should be. 

[eddyramrod]

9 hours ago, eddyramrod said:

For Sale now.

Or not.  Obviously I can't sell him as a non-runner.

[Mrs6C]

55 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

The workies finished today, so with confidence at a new high, I slid across Huggy's seat to drive him back into his proper berth.  Key... lights... nothing.  I wrestled with the shifter several times, still nothing.  Bo-lerks.

So once again I pushed him back where he should be. 

It is just possible that the door not opening is a symptom of the interlocking not being quite right. One of the symptoms of the interlocking issue on my Cadillac was that the automatic trunk lid opening & closure mechanisms wouldn't work, as the trunk lid isn't supposed to operate with the car 'in motion' i.e. in gear.

The driver's door on yours may have the same simple logic behind it, perhaps? Try the door when the car is able to start and see if it works properly then...

The interlocking issue on Huggy may well be the rubber/plastic bushing around the little nubble, onto which the cable connects, has perished or is now missing. This introduces slack to the mechanism, so that the cable then can't push the nubble far enough in the right direction to confirm to the car that it is in P or N...

[eddyramrod]

That's kind of a consideration.  Since I was working on the rear apron last year, the trunk pulldown hasn't worked.  I don't think it should affect the doors though for several reasons.  They're not designed to self-lock when rolling, as many more modern American cars are; also, five years ago I realised there was a problem with the electric locks and disconnected them inside the doors.  I accept it's possible that part of that mechanism is the problem inside the driver's door, but until I can get more than the tiny gap I have between door and card, I won't be able to tell.

I'm sending the car to Coventry for a few days anyway.  It clearly doesn't want to be driven, so fine, it can stay where it is.  I'm cheesed off.

[chaseracer]

On 26/05/2021 at 17:51, outlaw118 said:

If you were a bit closer i'd be there helping*

Bob is good at helping... 😎

[eddyramrod]

In a burst of undeserved generosity towards this increasingly hostile vehicle, this morning I picked up some Gorilla Glue in Aldi, because I haven't seen it there before.  It claims to be very strong... we will find out!  I wanted it for the interior mirror.  So far I still haven't found anything that can hold the weight of the mirror to the windscreen.  Over the weekend, as the weather is supposed to improve, I'll try it and report back.

[chaseracer]

Read the destructions carefully - it's not a contact adhesive like Superglue.  Ask me how I know this...!

[eddyramrod]

21 hours ago, chaseracer said:

Bob is good at helping... 😎

Any Shiter who would like to help and thinks they can, will be most welcome to turn up and try.  There will always be tea and coffee,biscuits and bacon butties.

[eddyramrod]

Why is this here and not in my Spotting thread?  Well some weeks ago I took my dog over to the beach for a walkie, and I found this nearby.  Today I did the same trip, and had my camera with me, so I stopped.  The owner was sitting out front enjoying the sun; obviously I introduced myself (owner of a shabby brown Cadillac, you will have seen it around...) and he was, as most of us are, delighted to meet another Yank owner.  So we were chatting, I outlined Huggy's starting issues, and he said he was going to meet his mate Ray within the hour, I should come along.  Naturally I said I would.

When I got home, I thought on a whim that I should try and start Huggy, because obviously it would be the right thing to do.  After a spot of wrestling with the shifter, he started, so I went over to Ray's, where Huggy and I were welcomed as old friends.    Much amusement was had when I slid over the seat to get out!  Inside a couple of minutes both Ray and Jason (the Chevy owner) had wrestled the door enough to get it open and gave it some very liberal applications of WD and similar fluids.  It now works more or less as it should.  We deduced that whatever lubrication had been inside the door had congealed, which was stopping the mechanism from working.  Further lubricant was applied to the window runners before the door cards were refitted, which in itself was a bit of a game.

Here's Ray taking the credit.  When the time came to leave, Huggy naturally didn't want to start.  I went through the routine with the shifter a couple of times, until Jason reached in through the open window and grabbed the lever while I was turning the key.  It worked.  We concluded that the inhibitor switch would be mounted on the column somewhere and would likely benefit from a dose of WD of its own.  That will probably happen tomorrow, and I'll report back of course.  But oh boy I did enjoy cruising the mean streets again!