Modern car advice! Any modern mechanics got any ideas? Now Sorted.

[danthecapriman]

Nobody wants all the shit that this sort of trouble brings, the best solution is for him to sort it out and my parents get the reliable car they want. Hopefully it won't cost him much to sort and everyone's happy.

 

The plan was to get this new Focus, sell the old one on now it's got a new mot and get on. Whereas now there's a new Focus, that's had to be taxed and insured, filled with petrol, run to a garage and now back to the seller miles away which my mum doesn't have confidence in using sitting uselessly on their drive.

The old Focus has been MOT'd ready to sell on, has it's own insurance and tax to pay for but can't be moved on as it's needed still as it's actually more reliable than the car bought to replace it!

 

Fucking cars!

[Stroller133]

I doubt there is a standard procedure to turn off the EML, but surely it must be possible. There is no end of "tuners" who can disable EML lights for

EGR or DPF deletes. I'm sure someone who knows what there doing could prevent certain faults illuminating the EML and mean it would still come on with the ignition. The problem is you probably need someone with that skill to investigate the issue. If vendor doesn't sort maybe a diagnostic with live data might be useful, I've got a feeling rather than disable fault codes sometimes the software might be changed so a value is coded to always be "right" rather than using the measured value of a sensor,

[danthecapriman]

I doubt there is a standard procedure to turn off the EML, but surely it must be possible. There is no end of "tuners" who can disable EML lights for

EGR or DPF deletes. I'm sure someone who knows what there doing could prevent certain faults illuminating the EML and mean it would still come on with the ignition. The problem is you probably need someone with that skill to investigate the issue. If vendor doesn't sort maybe a diagnostic with live data might be useful, I've got a feeling rather than disable fault codes sometimes the software might be changed so a value is coded to always be "right" rather than using the measured value of a sensor,

I'm absolutely shit with computer type stuff and have very little interest in it either, but in theory a cars ECU is just a computer isn't it? So it should be possible for someone with the right kit and intelligence to re-program this computer to act in a certain way, as you say to either ignore certain things or to take a given value from a component as normal.

 

I would guess that this sort of computery bollocks is how future car restorers etc will attempt to keep tomorrow's old cars going? Not for me though I'm afraid!

[sierraman]

Could also be an ignition related problem with the coil. Problems with this or the plugs might not always cause an EML to come on. Does it do it when stationary?

[New POD]

One word.

 

Danny.

 

 

He'd sort it. Broken legs and smashed skulls might be offered if a refund were not made. and delivered if required.

 

Everyone knows (a) "danny". Some of them Might do it for free for fun.

 

Or trading standards might be a better way.

[scottyp27]

There's a chance it could be an air leak like a vacuum pipe pulled off or something simple like that. Seen it happen a few times especially for petrols

[danthecapriman]

Could also be an ignition related problem with the coil. Problems with this or the plugs might not always cause an EML to come on. Does it do it when stationary?

No, it's fine when stationary. Even when accelerating or even really giving it some hard acceleration it's perfect.

The problem seems to come if you come off the accelerator to slow down or on junctions/corners etc where you need to slow. You come off the accelerator, the car begins to slow down but immediately hesitates. It almost feels like misfiring or someone jabbing the accelerator rapidly on off on off... For a second or two then it behaves itself perfectly again.

It's almost as if the engines cruising then when it's required to change and do something different (like slow down, less acceleration) it doesn't quite know how to continue running smoothly but then wakes up after a few seconds. If that makes any sense!?

[SiC]

No, it's fine when stationary. Even when accelerating or even really giving it some hard acceleration it's perfect.

The problem seems to come if you come off the accelerator to slow down or on junctions/corners etc where you need to slow. You come off the accelerator, the car begins to slow down but immediately hesitates. It almost feels like misfiring or someone jabbing the accelerator rapidly on off on off... For a second or two then it behaves itself perfectly again.

It's almost as if the engines cruising then when it's required to change and do something different (like slow down, less acceleration) it doesn't quite know how to continue running smoothly but then wakes up after a few seconds. If that makes any sense!?

That is exactly sounds like a EGR valve sticking. Have you tried disconnecting the EGR electrical connector and going for a drive?

[HH-R]

That's exactly what my Panda did, come off the accelerator and it would lurch twice - not enough to be an issue but enough to be highly irritating. Had to do feet dances to minimise it to avoid looking like a learner. I hadn't realised how much of a PITA it was until I drove someone else's car.

[danthecapriman]

Haven't tried disconnecting the wires, I wouldn't know where it is on these cars. I didn't want to start poking about with it too much incase the seller started claiming it was our 'meddling' with it that caused the problem.

 

HH-R, yeah it's very irritating. Like a L driver getting clutch control wrong and bunny hopping the car. It feels like the engines about to cut out but it never does. At higher speeds the lurching does feel quite violent sometimes.

 

Is this type engine particularly troublesome? I know the old Zetec fairly well and do rate it, but know pretty much nothing about these Duratec engines.

[EssDeeWon]

Sounds like a fairly common temperamental modern to me. Its probably always driven like that from new.

[danthecapriman]

Sounds like a fairly common temperamental modern to me. Its probably always driven like that from new.

Yeah, can't say it's my sort of car. This sort of shit with these smart arse moderns makes me love my old heaps even more!

Even comparing the new Focus to the old one, the new one doesn't feel as solid or well finished as the old one. It's quicker and looks more modern but in a lot of ways feels like a step backwards from the old version.

[SiC]

Haven't tried disconnecting the wires, I wouldn't know where it is on these cars. I didn't want to start poking about with it too much incase the seller started claiming it was our 'meddling' with it that caused the problem.

 

HH-R, yeah it's very irritating. Like a L driver getting clutch control wrong and bunny hopping the car. It feels like the engines about to cut out but it never does. At higher speeds the lurching does feel quite violent sometimes.

 

Is this type engine particularly troublesome? I know the old Zetec fairly well and do rate it, but know pretty much nothing about these Duratec engines.

It's a modern multi-port injected petrol engine. I reckon this type of fuel injected engine of this era will be seen as the last of the simple to fix and reliable lumps. This type of engine and fuel injection combination was started in the 80s, got better to the 90s and now in the 00s has hit peak levels of engineering understanding and design.

 

However they're not necessarily the best fuel economy, high BHP for size or cleanest engine - when compared to modern latest and greatest turbo'ed direct injection engines. But these new modern engines are now are at modern diesel levels of complexity and engineering tolerances. I suspect that they'll be rather a pain in the bum to be repaired in comparison.

 

Incidentally I think that Duratec engine was originally designed by Mazda and used in the MX5 and others?

[danthecapriman]

Interesting. I'd assumed it would just be a redesigned and more modern follow on from the zetec, to replace the zetec but it actually doesn't seem to resemble one at all.

Isn't the zetec actually a jap engine? Was it Mazda or Yammaha or something?

 

And people think I'm mad for loving crude old Pintos and Cologne V6's! At least mine work!

[scaryoldcortina]

I guess your dad's garage aren't used to modern cars either...

 

For starters, when you clear the codes it resets two counters in the ecu - one (0130) measures the number of times the engine has warmed up since reset, and the other one (0131) counts the distance travelled. It's therefore really easy to spot a car that has had the MIL put out recently.

 

From the fault descriptions, I'd say EGR or MAF, both of which often cause poor running and don't put a light on but honestly it needs someone who knows what they are doing actually looking at it or you are going to be playing parts darts.

[danthecapriman]

That's it really. I don't have the first clue about reading codes or how to interrogate an ECU, or even have any of the required kit to do it with. I just don't get involved with cars like this other than basic servicing, brakes etc and even then it's infrequent and on friends and family's cars.

 

It's this sort of problem where knowing someone good who does have a clue what they're doing is worth their weight in gold. It sounds like the garage he uses aren't that clued up on diagnostics or don't really want to get too involved. My dad did explain the situation to them when he dropped it off.

[Danblez]

I am very disappointed no one suggested a bottle of redex and an Italian tune up.

[danthecapriman]

I am very disappointed no one suggested a bottle of redex and an Italian tune up.

At the risk of sounding old fashioned and/or stupid, I did actually try this! Thinking maybe given it's low mileage it would just be suffering from a bit of lack of use. It did nothing.

Which does lead nicely on to another complaint about these things. What the fuck is that stupid fuel filler design about?

There's no actual fuel cap, you open the little door and can see the opening for the petrol pump nozzle. Seemingly there's a locking mechanism inside this to close off the access to the tank. It opens up when the cars unlocked and the the pump nozzle inserted. It certainly makes putting redex etc in more difficult as most of the first attempt ended up pissing straight out through the tank breather onto the floor! Another fine solution to a problem that didn't exist. Wtf is wrong with a lockable cap?

[SiC]

I am very disappointed no one suggested a bottle of redex and an Italian tune up.

Probably worth it because of low miles, but won't do much to a EGR chocked full of carbon.

[scaryoldcortina]

First time I saw one of those caps for MoT I actually though the filler cap was missing which would be a fail. I had to go and google it because when I looked closer I noticed there wasn't actually anywhere for a cap to go.

[hauserplenty]

It sounds like the fuel pressure regulator could be ruptured or sticking. It's on the fuel rail and there's a vacuum line going to it. Diaphragms such as these can fail when cars are not driven often. Varnish eats away at the rubber bits &c.

 

Also...

Vacuum leak?

Fuel pressure? (Plumb in a gauge and go for a blag...)

Fuel filter? Good idea to change it anyway if it's varnished.

 

But the fact it happens on deceleration is an important clue.

 

There is usually a funnel/spout type chingas included with those cars without fuel caps. Co$t cutting at its finest... At least it has a spare tire.

...I think...

[hauserplenty]

The check engine light, or SES MIL in work order jargon, is by design difficult to simply disable. The first thing a smog tech does is turn the key on and wait. If the light does not come on: FAIL. So removing the bulb is not an option.

Don't let them throw parts at it either. A proper diagnosis (and a Google search) will get it sorted.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-hesitates

 

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/general-technical-chat/236365-car-jerks-hesitates-bad-low-rpm-uphill.html#/forumsite/20515/topics/236365?page=1

[Formula Autos]

No, it's fine when stationary. Even when accelerating or even really giving it some hard acceleration it's perfect.

The problem seems to come if you come off the accelerator to slow down or on junctions/corners etc where you need to slow. You come off the accelerator, the car begins to slow down but immediately hesitates. It almost feels like misfiring or someone jabbing the accelerator rapidly on off on off... For a second or two then it behaves itself perfectly again.

It's almost as if the engines cruising then when it's required to change and do something different (like slow down, less acceleration) it doesn't quite know how to continue running smoothly but then wakes up after a few seconds. If that makes any sense!?

Exactly how my Mondeo TDCi was behaving. Turned out to be a mixture of the EGR valve needing cleaned, which nearly sorted it, and the injectors needing cleaned, which took the last 25% or so of the problem away.

 

The only sure fire way (I'm now on my third such vehicle as my daily*) to avoid the injectors clogging up is to avoid Supermarket diesel, and put the occasional tankful of Premium diesel in. Which negates some of the fuel economy benefits (I.e. Fuel costs) of having a diesel.

 

Bloody moderns.

 

 

* one was a Jag X-type dizzler, which had the same engine and was, in many ways, much shitter than the Mondeo that spawned it.

[DVee8]

I am very disappointed no one suggested a bottle of redex and an Italian tune up.

No i'm a little disappointed that no one has suggested,KILL it with FIRE or take it to the bridge with a pic of James Brown.

 

This place.

[Bren]

No i'm a little disappointed that no one has suggested,KILL it with FIRE or take it to the bridge with a pic of James Brown.

 

This place.

If it was the god awful 1.6 HDI there would have been no end of suggestions.....

[SiC]

It sounds like the fuel pressure regulator could be ruptured or sticking. It's on the fuel rail and there's a vacuum line going to it. Diaphragms such as these can fail when cars are not driven often. Varnish eats away at the rubber bits &c.

 

Also...

Vacuum leak?

Fuel pressure? (Plumb in a gauge and go for a blag...)

Fuel filter? Good idea to change it anyway if it's varnished.

 

But the fact it happens on deceleration is an important clue.

 

There is usually a funnel/spout type chingas included with those cars without fuel caps. Co$t cutting at its finest... At least it has a spare tire.

...I think...

I believe the fuel pressure regulator on these is integrated into the in-tank fuel pump+sender assembly - which is normal for a most petrol euroboxes nowadays. Either that, or the fuel pressure is controlled electronically by modulating the fuel pump. Also usually the Fuel Filter is part of this assembly too and is classed as not a serviceable part - i.e. good for the life of the car/fuel pump assembly.

[danthecapriman]

My dads just spoken to the seller. He's apologised and seems genuinely concerned, which is good. He's going to have a chat with his mechanic tomorrow and arrange a time to get it back and have a look at it. Seems very reasonable honestly.

With any luck he'll be able to sort it and all will be well. Watch this space.

The sellers mechanic has gotten back to us, given the description of what's happening he's come to the conclusion of the EGR.

So were taking it back to them Friday afternoon.

I've just had a look at the car and the EML does come on when the ignition is switched on, then goes out after the engines started so it's not been tampered with.

 

Thanks for all the help so far. I'll update this as soon as I find out but money seems to be on the EGR from what you lot and his mechanic have said.

The seller seems to have been pretty decent really so far, and it's in his interests to get this sorted quickly too.

[SiC]

Sounds like a very good result.

 

My experience with second hand cars is that there is always something that needs fixing shortly after buying it, even if a minor problem.

[hauserplenty]

It sounds like the Euro version is quite different then. I didn't bother to research it, soz but there we are. If it's true that it's all located in the tank then my cynicism tells me that was an "improvement," I.e. in the dealer's bottom line. Not unknown to Ford, I presume.

[danthecapriman]

Update time.

 

The car went back to the sellers mechanic today.

It was the EGR valve. A new genuine Ford part has been fitted, car test driven by my dad and it's now completely faultless. The seller apologised again for the inconvenience and gave my dad another £30 back to cover petrol costs! A nice gesture, and the new part probably wasn't cheap either.

 

Big thanks to everyone on here for help and advice. Much appreciated!

 

 

So, all's well that ends well then? Well, no actually!

I moved the old 02 reg Focus this morning and guess what!? The EML has come on and stays on! It's been fine until this morning and covered a couple of hundred miles last week without the light on or any sign of a problem.

Fucking unbelievable! Ones fixed and then the other screws up just in time for when it's supposed to be sold.

It's running fine so I think it'll just be a sensor somewhere playing up. I don't have a code reader so it's got to go to a garage for a scan. Needless to say my dad's not best pleased!