Alfa 147 JTD - opinions/experience/PHACTS pls.

[Dave_Q]

Hi internet, 

 

We are looking for a new car for my wife, she currently drives a Fabia tdi but it's boring and she's had it 2 years already which we can all agree is an awfully long time to drive the same car.

 

So we're looking for something pretty similar really, needs to be 5 door diesel hatchback, not too big but something a bit different and newer than the old car (2003). Also must not be monochrome (black/white/grey/silver).

 

So these Alfa 147s have made it onto the approved potential list. We can probably afford a 05 plate or so that's done 100+k miles.

 

What's to know about these? The JTD comes as 8v or a 16v multijet, I'm leaning towards the 8v but interested to hear what people think. To misquote Hirst there are thousands of these engines soldiering on in dog-eared Multiplas so hopefully pretty reliable.

 

I'm seeing much talk of suspension arms online, how hard/how much to change if/when required?

 

Buying guides seem to state that cast iron service history is a must, do we agree?

 

So Autoshite, have you owned one of these? Or a JTD in something else? Have you got a top quality pub bullshit story about your mate's Alfa that exploded and killed a kitten?

 

Come at me.

[sporty-shite]

Mrs S currently runs a 2.0 twin spark 147 and has previously had a 16v JTD 156. I can't say a bad word about them. I really liked the 156, the diesel produced a good slug of torque over a fairly wide (for a diesel) powerband. The 147 goes well and is comfortable, looks nice and has done us good service.

 

As for maintenance and history, they are polar opposites. We paid good money and looked hard for a 156 with history. When the 147 arrived, it was an impulse buy as a cheap MOT failure (top arms, TADT,S) and so had nothing with it. 

 

I would say, try to get a well looked after one. Personally, I would try for a 16v JTD, as 150bhp suits the car much better than the measly 115 or so the 8v gives. I would also try to find a facelift one, but that's just because I think they're much better looking.

 

As for common faults, top front suspension arms. They can be done quite easily at home, and are readily available, although some of the cheap ones won't last. I did them on the 147 when we bought it, and have just had to do them again after two years and about 16000 miles. Belts can wreck an engine of they fail. Apparently, the water pump is the weak spot on the JTD. It can seize and take the belt with it. Also, ALWAYS replace tensioner and water pump when belt is done, as they aren't worth the gamble. 

 

All the other usual stuff applies, like everything working and being present. Also, it's worth checking for grot underneath, as some may be getting a bit flaky. Ours had a bit of peelong underseal, but that was soon sorted with a wire brush and kurust.

 

Sporty's verdict: DO IT. 

[pompei]

I think but am not certain that the 1.9 tdi engines are used across the GM range.

[Barry Cade]

I say Nike too, great wee cars and no VAG content. Did one a while back that siezed it's water pump and broke the belt at 192k. Some new rockers and a belt kit and it was back to rude health. Nice to drive too.

[SiC]

I think but am not certain that the 1.9 tdi engines are used across the GM range.

Yes, GM uses the FPT (Fiat PowerTrain) engines too. In the Saab/Vauxhall, the 1.9 suffers from the usual Diesel bollocks such as EGRs clogging, DMF failing and swirl flaps flapping.

[andrew e]

In a nutshell it's a 11 year old JTD, throw your money in the fireplace instead.

 

I most definately didn't hydraulically lock a 16v JTD in an inch high puddle.

[stripped fred]

The indie Alfa garage I used to take my 156 to used to lend me their 147 jtd. I think it was the 115bhp version but it used to go well and stood up to a lot of abuse with quite a few miles on it. Nice leather interior and stylish dash. The paint was a bit flaky. I was quite impressed by it. It felt a bit special compared with most similar sized cars particularly the usual VAG clones. Not the biggest inside though if that's important to you.

[wuvvum]

As Setright might have said, the thing is a diesel Alfa Romeo, and is therefore reprehensible.

[HH-R]

My dad has an 8v Multijet in a 57 plate Fiat, had it from 13k or something, now on 50something.

 

Has had HGF, glow plugs, sometimes a pain to start, EML is never off, EGR constantly clogged.

 

I'm with Andrew, you'd be better off putting money in a fire. Well it hasn't been disastrous I suppose... would never ever have a modern diseasel though.

[Lacquer Peel]

As Setright might have said, the thing is a diesel Alfa Romeo, and is therefore reprehensible.

 

I'm still waiting for bo11ox to buy a 33 fitted with a 3-headed monster.

 

[rainagain]

I owned  2.4 JTD 156, one of the best cars I ever owned and cheapest to run. I had to change the lower wishbones on mine, the problem with the suspension is a lot of it involves bolts going into aluminium, which then seize. I couldn't use the proper procedure due to seized bolts, here's what I did, it might be handy as the front suspension is shared with the 156: 

 

1. Jack up car, remove wheel, lower onto axle stand

 

2. Remove brake caliper, unclip its hydraulic hose from the clip on the shock and then remove the calliper bracket and disc (I didn't do this last part and it makes manoeuvring the hub very difficult due to its weight and the size of the disc)

 

3. Undo the drop link between the hub and the anti-roll bar, you will probably have to jack the wishbone up until the load is taken off the anti-roll bar (being careful not to disturb the jack/axle stand) to let you tap it out of the hub, if it is old you are likely to have to cut it off

 

4. Unclip the ABS wiring from the shock, I tried to remove the sensor from the hub but it wasn’t going to happen, so I left it attached, it was ok in the end as there is plenty of cable to allow you to pull the wishbone out

 

5. Split top wishbone from hub (this took a LOT of hammering) but leave attached (leave the nut on a good few turns)

 

6. Split the trackrod end joint, but leave attached to hub

 

7. Don’t bother trying to remove the lower mount on the shocker (the fork like part) as the bolt will never ever come out, I ground the square nut off mine and it still wouldn't undo

 

8. Crack the bottom ball joint retaining nut and place a jack, etc under this bolt to dislodge the joint from the hub, don’t remove the nut

 

9. Remove the bolt that goes through the bottom of the lower mount and the lower wishbone

 

10. From underneath the car crack the four wishbone bolts but leave attached

 

11. Loosen but do not remove the bolts securing the strut in the engine bay, this will allow you to wiggle the lower mount

 

12. Put the car in first and start to undo the first of the six driveshaft retaining bolts that bolt the inner CV to the gearbox. I found mine to be incredibly tight so make sure your hex bit is well hammered in, one of mine almost rounded off. They are annoying as the nut at the back of them isn’t fixed, it’s locked by the back of the joint. When you start unscrewing them so far it will back off from the back of the joint and start to spin. I found the best thing to do is undo it as much as possible from within the wheel arch then when the nut starts spinning go underneath the car and push it back towards the joint so it locks again, then use a ratchet to undo it. Access is tight and don’t drop the nut! Put the car in neutral and rotate the axle to access the next one before putting it back in first, repeat until all are removed. I’m not sure if it matters which way the driveshaft goes back on but I marked mine before I removed it

 

13. Unbolt and remove the upper wishbone ball joint and trackrod end from the hub

 

14. Remove the four wishbone bolts and pull the whole hub/drive shaft/wishbone assembly towards you (out of the wheel arch) being careful not to strain the ABS wiring

 

15. Once the assembly is removed, remove the lower ball joint nut and remove the old wishbone, have a cup of tea

 

16. Insert the lower ball joint of the new wishbone into the hub using plenty of copper grease, etc to make sure the rubber boot on the lower ball joint can’t get snagged. Be very careful you don’t nip it, I found it best to only put the nut on a couple of turns so the boot is kept away from the hub

 

17. Your next problem is inserting the wishbone, which wants to be put in horizontally but you can’t do this as the lower mount’s in the way, to make things easier I put a screw driver through one of the holes of the rear mount and rotated it on the wishbone so it was horizontal whilst the wishbone was drooping, this will let it slip in without getting it stuck on the anti-roll bar

 

18. Manoeuvre the assembly in place being careful not to trap or damage any of the CV gaiters, this is difficult and even worse if you haven’t removed the disc and calliper bracket, I found once I had it close I pulled down the top wishbone down and pushed its ball joint into the hub and put the nut on a couple of turns just to hold everything in place whilst I moved the wishbone around

 

19. I found it easier to get one bolt in the rear mount first and then work on the front mount, I used a clamp to rotate this horizontally until it was sitting right (remember how I said it will want to sit at the same angle the wishbone is at) then gently tapped it with a hammer to get it aligned

 

20. Both my bolts went into the front mount easily enough after I had screwed one into the rear mount, but I had problems getting the second bolt to align in the rear mount, I had to use a hammer to drift the rubber mount until it aligned, be careful tightening the rear bolts as they are only tightening into the alloy mount, I noticed the wishbone I removed had been fitted with a metric coarse rather than fine bolt into one of the rear mounts as the last person who had fitted it had stripped the fine thread, luckily I found a suitable bolt in my big box 'o' bolts for the new wishbone

 

21. After this attach the driveshaft and then refit the rest of the removed parts, making sure to torque all the fastenings to the right torque and job’s a good ‘un

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

22. Pay someone else to do it.

[Lankytim]

We've had two 1.9 JTD Multiplas and found them great cars. The first had dodgy injectors which I changed but the fuel pump died a week or so later. A replacement pump didn't work so I gave up and bought another Multi. The engines are punchy and quick, quiet and easy to work on. Did the cambelt and water pump this weekend. I'd deffo have one of these engines in a sporty Alfa.

[Dave_Q]

Thanks everyone for the input.

 

That wishbone procedure sounds like a bit of a pain in the rectum, but it's only nuts and bolts, i have spanners and hammers.

 

I'm not too concerned about the OMGMODERNDIZZLERness of the JTD as we currently have a 2002 HDi and the aforementioned PD Skoda as daily drivers and the technology level is about the same.

 

Want to avoid DPFs but t'internet tells me these either never had them, or not till about 06 onwards.

 

We are off to look at a local one on Wednesday, probably won't purchase as its silver but if it gets final wife approval then we will probably get one when a nice red one comes up.

[rainagain]

Don't let my wishbone change instructions put you off! Like you said it is just nuts and bolts, it's quite a simply but laborious job, apparently the upper ones can be changed in 45 minutes. Make sure you give it a good thrash on the test drive and check the rear view mirror for clouds of black smoke as this means the EGR valve is probably jammed. On my 156 I was lucky as you could get away with just blanking it off without bringing on the ECU light of doom. Mine was not OBD compliant, but I manged to connect to the ECU with FiatECUScan and a VAG com lead, instructions are on the alfa forum. Try and drive over some speed bumps, if the front suspension squeaks it means either the front upper wish bones are knackered or need lubricated. About every 2000 miles I think I had to spray the upper bushes with silicon spray to quieten them down, if you check the alfa forum it's a common 'feature', if the spray doesn't quieten them they are knackered.

[SiC]

If the EGR is the same as the one the GM lumps, the 150bhp version is mega easy to remove and clean. They're now cheap enough as a part that you can just chuck them away now too, rather getting your hands filthy.

[rainagain]

If the EGR is the same as the one the GM lumps, the 150bhp version is mega easy to remove and clean. They're now cheap enough as a part that you can just chuck them away now too, rather getting your hands filthy.

I still like to blank an EGR whenever I can, saves lots of lovely carbon and other exhaust crap coating the engine's inlet.

[flat4alfa]

There are so many available and so cheap, buy two.

[solid61]

My stilo jtd115 has just hit 197k an still performs very well,it has been looked after by me for the last 100k,oil change every 10k,uses no oil no water and is still on its original turbo and after 5 years ownership it still makes me smile,it really pulls well and surprises many a VAG wankmobile,can't say enough good about the jtd engine.

[sporty-shite]

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-156-VELOCE-ESTATE-MOT-OCT-16/401063583192?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143856%26meid%3Dab5ca30075174c8a9892e3d69b4c8fa8%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D221997475091

 

A Few quid thrown at paintwork and a valet would make this a pleasant place to be.

 

Just a thought.

[Dave_Q]

^^Like that^^ and if it was for me I deffo WOOD, but my wife won't entertain an estate.

[drum]

The wife has been running one for three years. An '06 8v JTD and has put about 40000 miles on it.

 

For a 'modern' it's needed a bit of fettling in that time.

 

I had the timing belt and water pump changed when we bought it at 70000 miles. I bought the kit myself making sure the water pump wasn't made of cheese.

 

Upper wishbones are easy enough to replace.

 

The clutch slave cylinder was awkward to get to, battery tray out etc.

 

Turbo hose chafes and needed replaced.

 

Air filter is a PITA to change.

 

Every mot I fight with the handbrake, having to free up the mechanism on the rear calipers. This year I put new cables on which seems to have cured it in the meantime.

 

It's had a crunch going into 3rd gear since we got it. I let the wife do the test drive when we bought it as it's her car. Won't make that mistake again. I plan to flush the box and change the oil (bought the oil etc a year ago but CBA).

 

Goes through bulbs and has an intermittent fault with a brake light.

 

I once walked into the wing mirror and knocked it off. Badly corroded alloy bracket.

 

Engine light came on recently claiming turbo solenoid was on strike. Seems to have cured itself.

 

The paintwork is poor. Lacquer peel and a rust bleb.

 

Wears the inside edge of the front tyres. Needs toed out or something.

 

The wife loves it. Thinks it's dead fast. She use to drive a diesel corsa.

[spartacus]

Make sure the weight of the car is on the wheels before you tighten the bolts up for the wishbone, otherwise when you lower the car onto the wheels it puts stress on the rubber bush.

[Dave_Q]

WE CAN HAZ ALFALFA ROMERO.

 

Looked at a few:

 

This one we went to first as it's closest, it was rough up close with a few scrapes and signs of a previous front ender in the form of flaky paint and misalignment on the bumper.

 

This one looked better but it was older than we'd like and hadn't actually had the advertised 12 months test done. The dealer was going to ring us but never did.

 

This one again looked worse than the pictures, scratches all down one side. "Know this car has no problems" the listing says, got there and he was under the bonnet trying to change the glowplugs as it had thrown a fault. Said he'd take a grand for it.

 

Here is our eventual prize, found on Swapz of all places. 55 plate, 103k, red paint with black cow interior. It's got nearly a full list of the mentioned 147 issues, gearchange is supa stiff and wishbones creaky, service book "lost" but it does drive well.

 

 

A 55 plater is a BRAND NEW CAR to me, so we were chuffed to get it for a grand.

 

I'll update if/when it starts playing up and I begin my descent into insanity/poverty.

[HMC]

Top bombing! Classic alfa colour combo, like that a lot.

[sporty-shite]

That is a damn good looking car. Top bombing.

[Guest Lord Sward]

 

I most definately didn't hydraulically lock a 16v JTD in an inch high puddle.

 

Idiot.  That was a good car.

[groovylee]

was about to post - dont buy a red one.........  all red alfas fade to random shades, and none of the panels eventually match lol

 

love alfas, so top bombing

 

my only must have tip - keep the door handles lubricated - if the pins seize up, the handles snap off when you try to open the door.  replacement is a pain in the arse.