Cars of the people. Part two tonight at 9.

[garethj]

I thought it was quite good, had a bit of a LOL on his Top Gear comment near the start and I was very impressed with the guys from Detroit talking about what it was like at the time.

 

The Allegro concept sketch was very nice, but of course there are two sides to every story so you could also say "fucking felt-tip fairies drawing pretty pictures without a clue of what needs to go inside".  In fact that's what lots of Engineers say when stylists get out the magic markers, it happens in every industry and it's still happening today.  However what should have happened once they'd come up with a car that was 20% taller was to be put in a room together and sort the bastard thing out, but as BL had no money and almost no development time they usually didn't have that luxury.

[Skizzer]

surely it is pronounced Vanden Plas, not Plah.

Can be either, depending on which bit of Belgium you're from. (They were a Belgian coach builder originally.)

 

My rather patchy knowledge of Dutch says it means 'from the puddle'. I hope this is true.

 

 

Didn't watch the show so nothing else to contribute, really.

[MarvinsMom]

thing is, that with the princess, the finished product looked almost identical to the Harris Mann sketches for "Project Diablo" as it was briefly tagged.

 

same with the TR7, the finished car wasn't that far off the original concept sketches.

 

just somewhere along the line the poor old Allegro got terribly messed up, that might be why i have a need urge to own one before they get too flippin' expensive!

[D Spares & Tyres]

Just watched one episode on i player

 

Yawn

 

Nothing on there neither I nor any car buff didn't know already.

 

James May likeable though

[Lord Sterling]

I watched it, but only from where May was driving the Celica/Mustang.

 

I don't honestly care what people say about cars anymore. You drive what you like to drive, if others don't like it/look down on you then bollocks to them, you are driving something you actually like.

 

***WARNING INCOMING OPINION***

 

Far too many people argue about the "pedegree" of thier chosen marques to a point where you can be flamed for having an opinion or stating facts one way or another. Whats lost on pretty much most car people these days is that they have chosen something they like (ok, some 'car people' have chosen cars to upstage thier neighbours/peers/colleagues etc...) they seem to think that they are re-educating others to think a certain way about thier chosen marque, but trying to change history in order to fit a new background to your chosen marque ain't always gonna work. Some will always believe what they are told because they have no imagination. On the other hand, it's nice to look at things more positively but sometimes you have to accept facts, but remember one thing; YOU CHOSE your car/marque because YOU LIKE IT (if thats really the reason you chose it) and that is more than enough reason to have you something you like. Care not about what others think about what you drive otherwise you simply don't have a life.

 

Programmes like this merely just look at different ways as to why some manufacturers have failed/done well. There are so many contributing factors to these that it's impossible to simply blame one factor. I think the so-called Allegro bashing was honestly nothing more than a bit of vented frustration at what it could have been. If you some research (something that a lot of people seem to find hard to do) you'll see that some other manufacturers also had aborted designs, have you watched a French/German car programme, have you seen that they also sometimes poke fun at themselves? Have you seen that they actually LIKE British marques compared to thier own sometimes?

 

No, of course not, - cuz its in a forin langwege.

[warren t claim]

An amusing way of spending an hour on the iPlayer but I can't say any of it is new to me.

[inconsistant]

Harris Mann designed the AMC Pacer too by the looks of that sketch.

[D Spares & Tyres]

Pretty much agree with you LS other than you don't really choose your marques, they sort of choose you.

 

I didnt sit there as a school kid and dream of owning 4 crappy old French cars but that's what seems to have happened!

[dugong]

I watched it, but only from where May was driving the Celica/Mustang.

 

I don't honestly care what people say about cars anymore. You drive what you like to drive, if others don't like it/look down on you then bollocks to them, you are driving something you actually like.

 

***WARNING INCOMING OPINION***

 

Far too many people argue about the "pedegree" of thier chosen marques to a point where you can be flamed for having an opinion or stating facts one way or another. Whats lost on pretty much most car people these days is that they have chosen something they like (ok, some 'car people' have chosen cars to upstage thier neighbours/peers/colleagues etc...) they seem to think that they are re-educating others to think a certain way about thier chosen marque, but trying to change history in order to fit a new background to your chosen marque ain't always gonna work. Some will always believe what they are told because they have no imagination. On the other hand, it's nice to look at things more positively but sometimes you have to accept facts, but remember one thing; YOU CHOSE your car/marque because YOU LIKE IT (if thats really the reason you chose it) and that is more than enough reason to have you something you like. Care not about what others think about what you drive otherwise you simply don't have a life.

 

Programmes like this merely just look at different ways as to why some manufacturers have failed/done well. There are so many contributing factors to these that it's impossible to simply blame one factor. I think the so-called Allegro bashing was honestly nothing more than a bit of vented frustration at what it could have been. If you some research (something that a lot of people seem to find hard to do) you'll see that some other manufacturers also had aborted designs, have you watched a French/German car programme, have you seen that they also sometimes poke fun at themselves? Have you seen that they actually LIKE British marques compared to thier own sometimes?

 

No, of course not, - cuz its in a forin langwege.

Careful bassa, you'll be buying German cars soon.....

[Aston Martin]

I 'think' it was Mark Evans on one of his series, he was chatting to a Vandan Plas owner and he called it an Allegro. "It's NOT an Allegro, there made in different factories and theres no Austin badges anywhere."

 

 

Maybe I've been on the paint thinner, but I'm pretty sure she snaps at him.

[martc]

Oh and I found his jab at Top Gear near the start pretty funny if anyone noticed it.

 

I noticed it!

 

After he banged on about the length and bulginess of the E-types bonnet there was a shot of a signpost for a village called "Willey" - that was quite comical as well.

[PiperCub]

Harris Mann designed the AMC Pacer too by the looks of that sketch.

 

Glad someone else thought that as it's what I saw too. 

 

Another +1 for that Celica. 

[AlabamaShrimp]

I thought it was alright and I'll watch the next few. I like James May and I'm not bothered if they think something is good/bad, I might learn something new and if not I've had time watching some cars

[plasticvandan]

I enjoyed it,nothing new was said,but i like the program style.

Nothing got smashed either.

I had thought the Allegros shape was caused by the toolmakers not allowing for spring in the metal?

[captain_70s]

I haven't watched this but somebody said he was complimentary about Triumph Dolomites, on this basis I'm going to assume the show is a PACK OF LIES.

[fordperv]

I watched this earlier, I quite enjoyed it, i wonder how much it cost BL to tool up for the allegro vdp bonnet and grill, perhaps if they had spent the cash at the start the story would have been different

[MarvinsMom]

I watched this earlier, I quite enjoyed it, i wonder how much it cost BL to tool up for the allegro vdp bonnet and grill, perhaps if they had spent the cash at the start the story would have been different

 

with the vp allegro, they made a genuine profit on every one that they sold.

 

I enjoyed it,nothing new was said,but i like the program style.

Nothing got smashed either.

I had thought the Allegros shape was caused by the toolmakers not allowing for spring in the metal?

that was something that was a problem on the princess. that ended up far more slab sided than expected, the allegro they introduced a more pronounced tumblehome to allow for the spring in the metal, that then didn't happen, so on the princess they reduced the tumblehome, and the spring from the steel ended up been more than was expected.

 

even back in 1972, donald stokes said that they could sell 4 times as many mini pickups than what they were making, instead of increasing the number coming off the line to satisfy demand, the production rates stayed the same. silly really, but that was BL through and through.

[Craig the Princess]

I know he's upset all of the Allegro owners, but that's because they don't seem to be able to comprehend that Allegros are a bit shit. They are!

He hasn't upset me, but it is hardly original to repeat 35 year old half truths to slag of a 43 year old design.

 

Not sure there is much surprise that people that like thing x don't like that thing x is slated. Especially if you hear those same comments at most car shoes you go to.

[dollywobbler]

To be fair, he could have gone to town with half truths - all the jack 'em up, window pops out stuff. Instead he focused on the dumpy styling and the lack of a hatchback. A fair complaint. I mean, it truly boggles the mind that BL could put the (admittedly inherited) Maxi in production, then not see how useful a hatchback was. Though, it should be pointed out that Citroen and Alfa Romeo made exactly the same mistake, leaving the door wide open for the Volkswagen Golf to steam in and claim all of the plaudits. 

 

I guess what I enjoyed most was just seeing some nice old cars being driven about and filmed very nicely. I mean come on, we should be worshipping him as a hero. He managed to get a 1980s Mazda 323 onto mainstream telly. How shite is that?

[forddeliveryboy]

Does May's theory work for Italy, I wonder? They didn't really lose and weren't obliterated in WW2, but did surrender and were generally confused. I'd say their industry is neither a runaway success nor a failure.

 

That has to be the way to go, ally yourself with a tyrant, provoke a civil war, be on both sides and put your hands up at some point. Then continue to make gorgeous/dodgy delete as applicable cars.

[Aston Martin]

"The Totally different factory!!!" Vandan Plas, about 4 mins in.

 

[Lord Sterling]

^^^ "Somliga älskar Austin Allegro. " ^^^

[Timewaster]

I just got round to watching it and I thought it was pretty good.

 

But on what planet is a 1980 Mazda 323 equivalent to a 1973 Allegro?

It should have been a Datsun Cherry F11 which would have dissolved by 1980.

 

I also found it pretty ironic that large areas of Detroit now look like they were bombed out in the war.

[fordperv]

with the vp allegro, they made a genuine profit on every one that they sold.

 

I genuinely didn't know that, saying that there's alot about BL cars I don't know

[Vin]

I just got round to watching it and I thought it was pretty good.

 

But on what planet is a 1980 Mazda 323 equivalent to a 1973 Allegro?

It should have been a Datsun Cherry F11 which would have dissolved by 1980.

 

I also found it pretty ironic that large areas of Detroit now look like they were bombed out in the war.

 

It probably isn't. A 1980 Mazda 323 is probably comparable to a 1980 Allegro. Maybe...

 

It wasn't about rusting, it wasn't really about reliability. It was about being able to build a car that you could sell to the world...

 

That's why there was that bit about the Allegro being seen as a saviour and Lord Stokes saying they had the car (the Allegro) to conquer Europe and beyond...yet it sold 642,000 over ten years, only 25,000 of which went abroad...

 

Whereas the Mazda was used an example, as it sold 1,000,000 in the first 2 years of production, of how to make a car you can sell to the world...

[Formula Autos]

I just got round to watching it and I thought it was pretty good.

 

But on what planet is a 1980 Mazda 323 equivalent to a 1973 Allegro?

It should have been a Datsun Cherry F11 which would have dissolved by 1980.

 

I also found it pretty ironic that large areas of Detroit now look like they were bombed out in the war.

I think the point the programme was making was that by 1980 the Allegro was still on sale, up against things like the 323. That they didn't have the resources to replace it or even put a hatchback in it (as Fiat, Alfa, Citroen et al had done when it was clear this was the way to go), is indicative of the position BL/ARG found themselves in at the start of the eighties.

 

He also went on to point out how the Dolomite ( which, although flawed in some respects could go toe to toe with a 3 series Bimmer) was replaced by a badge engineered Honda. This situation was arrived at by a complex set of events, not just some duff cars and strikes. The main point of the programme was that US and British car production was overtaken by the vanquished nations of WW2 partly because they were in a position where they could rebuild, and because they were prevented from any meaningful expenditure on defence - the talented engineers around went to their car makers in greater numbers than they did over here. Then there was the '70s; fuel crises, strikes, a "do what we've always done" attitude, and there was a perfect storm that changed the landscape.

 

Even if the Allegro had a hatchback, these events were largely inevitable. But they could have put one on, and maybe sold a few more cars.

[dugong]

I think the point the programme was making was that by 1980 the Allegro was still on sale, up against things like the 323. That they didn't have the resources to replace it or even put a hatchback in it (as Fiat, Alfa, Citroen et al had done when it was clear this was the way to go), is indicative of the position BL/ARG found themselves in at the start of the eighties.

Boom, spot on. The Allegro 3 was actually quite a decent car but it was too little, too late. Even Citroen had learned by then and had the GSA.

[406V6]

I enjoyed watching the programme and as a one time Allegro owner thought the Harris Mann interview was quite touching. "So it ruined your life then", said May. There's no escaping that the styling of the Allegro was utter shite. Even though the original Mann sketch was quite sleek the front end was quite close to the production car and an epic fail. Having said all this the front end of the Saab 99 isn't that far from an Allegro and shows that getting the styling details right is an important divider between winner and shitter.

[Lacquer Peel]

They repeated the same mistakes with the Maestro and Montego which might have been good-looking cars but for some crap styling details.

[MarvinsMom]

the monty could have been even worse* than how it did turn out.

 

david bache wanted to give it a porthole window!!

 

during one heated discussion of this, harold musgrove blew a gasket, and sacked "the coiffured ponce...." presumably for been bloody stupid!