Is it us or the technology?

[forddeliveryboy]

 

 

 

How far have we come, that we need 2.5 tonnes of 4x4 to venture into 8 inches and less of snow?

[Pillock]

It's us.

I drove a Citroen Saxo up a 1:12ish sheet ice road, weaving in and out of stranded stuff including Discoveries and Rav4-type Soft-roaders. I kept the revs down, gears high, planned ahead and kept it moving. I wouldn't say it's tricky, but driving in snow and ice is different to a dry road and it's not something you can just do without thinking.

 

On the other hand, there's a lot of folk these days that expect everything to be made as simple as possible. Buy a 4x4, and expect it to go up a vertical slope with a caravan on the back in the snow "because it's a 4x4 and it has traction control".

[Honey Badger]

It's more to do with the fact that it snows once every 3 years for one day in most of the uk so nobody has a chance to learn too drive in the snow, its not like we live in the arctic circle is it.

 

 

Or does that not fit in with your jaundiced world view?

[Sloth in a bowl]

Does the 4x4 not come with a locking diff control? because it doesn't look like it's using it.

[mouseflakes]

I drove a Citroen Saxo up a 1:12ish sheet ice road

 

Yay Saxo! My old dizzler (RIP) was ace in teh sno.

[wuvvum]

AX's are bloody good in the snow too.  I think a Mk1 Justy on snow tyres would be pretty much invincible - mine was brilliant on nearly-bald summer tyres, the only thing it wasn't so good at was slowing down.

[andy18s]

Does the 4x4 not come with a locking diff control? because it doesn't look like it's using it.

Not the Disco 2.It has traction control but only kicks in when all the wheels are spinning freely

Driver needs to boot it,then the tc will take over....

[cort1977]

My jaundiced world view is the only thing that keeps me going.

[forddeliveryboy]

...its not like we live in the arctic circle is it.

 

Or does that not fit in with your jaundiced world view?

 

 

You might be missing the point I'm making, but feel free to believe what you wish - you're well off the mark though! I appreciate those who dare to question things are often viewed with suspicion by those who don't.

 

I happen to enjoy noticing and pointing out anomalies in life - like the further you travel into places where there's regular snow, the lower the proportion of 4x4s, unless it's holiday season and a tourist area. Just thought that these two videos might make one or two people think, it was meant to be entertaining above all - not a place for best-guessing my 'world view'.

[HMC]

Having a small 'footprint' in snow and the trend with modern car tyres seem  polar (if you'l forgive the pun) opposites, with a set of electronic systems to help overcome what seems a bit of an own goal.

[John F]

Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:Sloth in a bowl, on 10 Nov 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

Does the 4x4 not come with a locking diff control? because it doesn't look like it's using it.

 

Later models of the Disco TD5 don't have* manual diff lock anymore.

 

Apparently the traction control & hill descent control were supposed to render it redundant. The diff lock continued to be fitted as standard to the transfer boxes until MY 2002 though, there just wasn't a lever. After that the mech was physically removed, but later models could have the manual diff lock fitted as an extra-cost option.

[UltraWomble]

Skinny tyres, light car, keep the momentum going.

[John F]

I think it can be us, the technology (mainly tyres), or both.

 

A couple of years ago myself and some mates were out in falling snow in our Disco 1s, the only cars that seemed to be *really* struggling on normal roads were big RWD barges - Jags, Mercs and suchlike. A lot of other cars struggled on mild slopes due to the wide tyres that are fitted as standard nowadays. Steeper slopes were pretty much carnage, the only things moving were 'proper' 4x4s fitted with AT tyres in low box. We drove past about a dozen cars that were all stuck in a valley with a 1:5 (or thereabouts) road leading out in both directions.

[twosmoke300]

Let your tyres down ! People aren't aware of how much difference it makes .

[srad34]

Does the 4x4 not come with a locking diff control? because it doesn't look like it's using it.

 Yes and yes, he probably has no idea what a diff actually is....

[beko1987]

My 1.4zx was ace in the snow, even on illegal front tyres! The only times I had to stop were to wait for modern idiots to finish crashing, although did need to drive half on the gradd and half on the verge up a hill to get traction though at one point.

 

Then ended up infront of the bloody snow plough! Did think of pulling over to let him past but then thought that he would bury me, and that fresh snow would have more grip than the surface he uncovered.

 

Hoping if it snows again this year my very new tyres and more tickover torque will help more, got up to 97mph at one point. I know people say dont wheelspin or suchlike but it was the only thing that pulled me up the hill! If I let off I was going backwards.

[cros]

2cv family are most impressive cars in snow. I'm fairly sure they would be more capable than many 'softroaders'.

[sheffcortinacentre]

its muppets that as said above think the expensive box with all the bells & whistles  they bought will deal with any situation with out them having to do anything harder than start it up, be it bad weather or someone walking out in front of them.

[forddeliveryboy]

Is it pre-1986?

Is it French or British?

Is it got real-sized tyres which start with a '1'?

It'll be fine in the winter weather.

 

LandCrabs were amazingly good, but Ma-fdb never struggled with a Triumph 2000 either, in the snow of '79/80/81. Apart from the overdrive switch working when it wanted, and wipers coming on over a bump.

 

There was an interesting drive with an ex in the early hours sometime in the mid-90s - snow beginning to fall on a well-frosted B-road. She was in her GSa, me in a BX, both with student-budget tyres on. I struggled to keep ahead, then she overtook. Huffiness ensued, until we swapped over - all the difference in the world. To be fair, conditions were bloody slippery but all the twitchiness and sudden breakway which the BX showed was replaced with gentle and progressive slipping. Over a long journey it would have been the difference in arriving shattered and arriving just normal tired.

[sheffcortinacentre]

ditto I've driven allsorts of 2wd chad in the snow & unless its become beached sensible driving has got me there.

[forddeliveryboy]

True, but I've had the pleasure* of driving something made in the last few years in snow on a couple of occasions and it was a real pain - too much power too quickly, scary cornering, suspension which sent the thing into a slide the moment you met a bump and so on. Really nasty. That it had ABS, EBD, ETC and all the other acronymns made it more dangerous - you'd not have tried otherwise.

[Mr A Lawrence]

I may be wrong but the disco td5 doesn't have a diff lock but it's there under the trim ready for the lever.

 

Also, just because it's a landrover doesnt make the driver any better!!

[Junkman]

Having a small 'footprint' in snow and the trend with modern car tyres seem  polar (if you'l forgive the pun) opposites

 

Doesn't become true by repeating it over and over.

What keeps you going on snow are tyres which have a rubber mixture that makes snow stick to it. The stuck to it snow on snow gives the traction.

The bigger the footprint, the better the traction. See Icelanderish 4x4s.

[cort1977]

Not sure I agree with that, winter tyres have a different compound that remains flexible in colder temperatures and hence grips better.  

 

However, surface area is another factor depending on the conditions.   In softer snow a narrower tyre allows the weight of the vehicle to break through and find traction, on a hard packed surface or ice a wider winter tyre will work better.   Overall I think a narrower tyre is better in a greater number of conditions but it depends on where you live and what type of driving you do.  

 

There is an article here quoting some German research.   http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/tyre-widths-narrow-or-wide-winter-tyres

 

My faulty memory seems to recall that Sierra Cosworths could be had with narrower steels as an option for winter driving as the wide alloys were considered a bit sketchy in winter but 80s tyres could also be a factor in that.

 

The Icelandic 4x4s are not a great example as they are built to traverse deep snow and the wide tyres are designed to 'float' over the soft surface.

[CHRIS1980]

When I was an apprentice,I had a mini 1000 on Colway mud and snow tyres. During the days we had snow I got around much quicker than any 4x4.

[warren t claim]

It doesn't matter on how trick your 4x4 is if you're running on road tyres then you're fucked in the snow.

[michael1703]

I remember in the snow we had about 5 years ago, the only car that would get us out of our road was a 1958 rover p4.

 

Weight/power/gearing/tyre width all helped

 

ABS doesn't work on 3 deformable surfaces snow/gravel/sand

 

You need your tyres to "ruck up" the surface to get it gripping

[Tamworthbay]

Everyone knows rwd is terrible in the snow, which is strange as my mgb gt was one of very few cars that made into our car park at work when we had the last real snow. The hill round the back of the site is hardly scafell pike to say the least but most people seemed unable to do anything but rev it more when it got stuck. Nut behind the wheel.........

[dave21478]

The Land Rover traction system goes against common* knowledge* - if you try to keep the revs down in a high gear and ease it out you will go nowhere.

Bang it in first, give it some beans and when the wheels start spinning, the TC will brake the wheels with least grip, giving power to those that do.

The guy in the video is doing it wrong - as soon as it spins he lets off the power so the TC isnt getting a chance to do anything. If he kept his foot in, he would likely have powered out with relative ease.

 

As for winter tyres - the difference they make is astonishing. A compound that stays soft at lower temperatures and most importantly lots of little grooves that pick up and hold snow in them. The snow on snow grip is what makes them work.

 

check em...

 

 

and

 

[purplebargeken]

I nipped past a new fully specced up 4x4 driven by a young woman who had what looked like a death grip on her steering wheel.

 

She was most irked to be overtaken on the snow and ice by a bright red Hyundai Amica. How I laughed.