Dual mass flywheel autoshite

[forddeliveryboy]

I knew my parents' daily transport had one of those daft and expensive sprung flywheels, even though it is proper autoshite - a fourteen year old Octavia. When it started rattling like a skeleton in a tin, I diligently enquired whether it was ok to replace with the sort of flywheel which had done throughout history until the late1990s. Audi specialist matey said deffo-no, if the gearbox doesn't break into a thousand pieces the crankshaft will split in two.

 

Being the sort of person who uses the net for info, I had a look round. A taxi driver had ignored the official advice and 'got away' with it for 80,000 miles. Even a Skoda dealer has, but I wondered if that was because they liked selling gearboxes.

 

Prices were £170 for a new single mass flywheel and clutch kit (Valeo) or £280 for an LuK dmf and clutch (to be repeated whenever the clutch needs changing or if the flywheel gets knackered again). Being a tight bugger when I smell bullshit, I opted for the natural option and a bit of a gamble. Having recovered from the nightmare of working on a transverse engine and box, I almost fell over when it started and the entire geartrain rattled ten times worse than the original knackered flywheel. Did the usual thing and checked for loose things, mole grips on top of the rocker cover and so on, Everything seemed fine. Took it for a drive. Seemed ok, if very different - slower gear changes, less instant zip from the engine and so on.

 

A week in and all seems good. Will report back. Anyone else ignored the official advice?

 

[steve_earwig]

Good lord, I thought they were just separated by a lump of rubber (maybe that's just PSA ones)

 

I hear from my mate in the factors here the official VAG line is to replace them with DMFs or terrible things might happen, lots of talk torque talk about snapped cranks, gearboxes, nuns, kittens, tidal waves etc. Nobody bothers though.

 

Over on the 406oc people seem to get away with it, even remapped cars.

[nisfan]

Work of the devil, only made for fucktards that have no clutch control. My e36 one is on its way out, its getting replaced by a real one.

[Joey spud]

My old work transit had a solid flywheel fitted by the dealer at 40k miles when its dmf started its death rattle and it was still going strong at 150k when the lease ended.

Also my focus had a solid fitted before i bought it again it was done at a main dealer and that too is fine but it is a bit less refined and a bit vibey in the first couple of gears.

[Junkman]

Shite doesn't have such shit.

[Asimo]

The only Dual Mass Flywheels worth having are Torque Converters and Fluid Flywheels.

[twosmoke300]

I've done plenty of conversions on fords for our local hire place and I can't feel any difference , certainly better than a fucked dmf anyway .

I know on fords some power output ones don't come with a dmf anyway and a single mass kit is available from them as a " heavy duty kit "

 

On a 14 year old car I'd do the conversion but don't lug it down too low and don't give it max torque from low revs .

[steve_earwig]

Maybe the board needs a MODERN tag so the "purists" know to avoid it....

 

I'm sill wondering why it's noisy. I can only think there's a problem with the cover...

[twosmoke300]

Edit - I forgot I did one on an a3 tdi a few months ago and it felt fine . I would advise a valeo kit over a cheapy no make job as you can get replacement clutch kits for them

[michael1703]

Petrol or diesel?

[alf892]

I put a clutch in my A4 which was just worn out and had a slight judder at just over 110k. Killed by Mrs Alf holding the car on a slope in a multi-storey till she noticed it smelling funny.

 

It happened while it was out of work so cash was tight. I figured if it didn't work I'd just do it again........after all my labour was free.

 

I checked the flywheel based on common sense then just fitted the clutch.

 

It was fine....judder gone. No dead kittens.

 

I'm not convinced DMFs are that bad as long as they are treated carefully. Heat and dumping the clutch kills them so they have shorter lives in fleet vehicles.

 

Having said that Ford would offer Transits (built on the production) with solid clutches to fleet customers who took loads.

[Lankytim]

I think these tales of snapped cranks could be down to people using a dual mass clutch plate with a solid flywheel. The dual mass clutch is solid whereas normal clutch plates are sprung.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I don't believe in DMFs. In recent years I've had clutches in an Espace,e39 530d and Gaylander 2. Everyone of them , I received a call telling me it needed a DMF as well , each of them I said ' Nah, chuck it back together,there was nothing wrong with it before'

Result ? The Espaz was a DCi so it grenaded after 10,000 miles, the BM did a further 50,000 miles then got written off, the Gaylander has gone 18 months so far and about 25,000 miles with no ill effects. It'll probably fuck up today!

[skattrd]

I did the single flywheel conversion on my boring a while back.

I used a 1H flywheel (from a Golf G60 rallye) which was kindly collected and carried around for a bit by Moog of this Parish, before I retrieved it from Ruffgeezer, former keeper of a certain white Xantia. Anyway, I digress, G60 flywheel and VR6 clutch is the old school VW single flywheel conversion. Mine is slightly more rattly than teh oriiginal DMF, but I put that down to the fact that my flywheel is somewhat lightened. For me though, the gear changes are as they were (not great) but I have quicker pickup due to lighter flywheel.

[dave21478]

When I did my Freelander clutch, it was slipping but with no rattling or other signs of DMF failure. However when I got it apart there was a shocking amount of play in the flywheel. Rather strangely it was also running a sprung clutch disc for a normal flywheel....Dunno what was going on there.
Anyway I sacked the lot off and fitted a Valeo solid flywheel kit and it has made precisely zero difference to the way the car drives and thats with one of these Rover Ron tuning boxes on it turned up to max torque settings.

When I was looking for the kit, I found Transmech kits to be about £100 cheaper, but some googling turned up an uncomfortable number of people finding the clutch starting to slip within the first few hundred miles. 

[New POD]

The point of the DMF is to stop the vibration.

 

You choose £170 Vs £280 ? On someone elses car ?  If It were £100 verses £1000 then maybe I would understand, but I think that up to £500 for the DMF I would have gone for it.

 

Especially if someone else were paying.

[overrun]

My last Mondeo had a rattly DMF for about 10K miles.

Nowt's a bother.

[Pete-M]

DMFs aren't as bad as people make out. If a car is meant to have one then that's what should be fitted. I've driven a couple of Mk3 Mondeos to which people have fitted solid flywheels and it makes them nasty to drive. Noisier, more rattly and just generally worse. Same with Octavias and Pisshats when they've been ran by cheapskates.

 

The manufacturer's don't fit DMFs for shits and giggles, they're fitted to try and reduce Dr Diesel's rattles, to try and make the engine feel smoother.

 

Why my ST170 has a DMF is a mystery.

[overrun]

If/when mine is due a replacement, I will fit a DMF again.

Given that you are talking at the very least, 60K miles, until any issues would arise again, I have never understood why solid conversions - and the potential issues that come with them - are even considered.

[Cavcraft]

I think my CDTi Vectra has one. I've been told ( and religiously follow this) that taking your foot off the clutch when stationary prolongs the life of them.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Work of the devil, only made for fucktards that have no clutch control. My e36 one is on its way out, its getting replaced by a real one.

 

 

You sure? The only E36 I've ever seen with a DMF was a late 316i Compact 1.9 with AC and the E46 type engine. BMW call their mega heavy flywheels 'twin mass' but that just means there's a sodding great ring of steel around the edge.

[skattrd]

I did a solid conversion so next time the clutch goes I can replace just the clutch, and not the flywheel as well. Plus the setup I installed is considerably stronger than the original dmf, which slips when if you increase the power output of the engine. Plus, with the lighter flywheel mine revs so much easier than it used to. The increased vibration isn't much.

[Pete-M]

I think my CDTi Vectra has one. I've been told ( and religiously follow this) that taking your foot off the clutch when stationary prolongs the life of them.

It does make them last longer.

[Skizzer]

My (excellent) Skoda dealer noticed the beginnings of a rattle from the DMF on my Yeti when they serviced it at 3 years old, and so voluntarily replaced it under warranty which was very decent of them.  (I hadn't noticed any more rattliness than usual.)  I had a chat with the service guy and he said they did sometimes put solid flywheels on instead if the customer wanted, but you lose out on refinement.  No suggestion that nuns and kittens would die.

[sierraman]

They don't like being lugged in too high a gear. Trouble is the car is designed to use a dmf, it should come as no surprise that it would be crap if you put a solid one in

[MarvinsMom]

out of interest (cos i've got one) has any one put a solid flywheel on a rover 75 diesel?

 

mine is fine at the mo, but it is only i suppose a matter of time before the clutch, master cylinder and the slave will want changing. when that time comes i was thinking seriously about puitting a solid flywheel on in place of the dmf i know the car has.

 

but the m47 has a cast, and not forged crank as fitted by the ss germans in their wisdom, so will that break it?

 

dunno if the solid ones are any cheaper too over a dmf, your thoughts please?

[steve_earwig]

My first though is: if they cost the same then fit the DMF but you should really check the price out. Obviously if you fit a DMF it'll need replacing with the clutch again next time but maybe that's too far down the road to worry about.

[Bren]

Did'nt somebody on here take a welder to one ?

[dave21478]

out of interest (cos i've got one) has any one put a solid flywheel on a rover 75 diesel?

 

mine is fine at the mo, but it is only i suppose a matter of time before the clutch, master cylinder and the slave will want changing. when that time comes i was thinking seriously about puitting a solid flywheel on in place of the dmf i know the car has.

 

but the m47 has a cast, and not forged crank as fitted by the ss germans in their wisdom, so will that break it?

 

dunno if the solid ones are any cheaper too over a dmf, your thoughts please?

 

 

 

Same engine as mine....

 

 

When I did my Freelander clutch, it was slipping but with no rattling or other signs of DMF failure. However when I got it apart there was a shocking amount of play in the flywheel. Rather strangely it was also running a sprung clutch disc for a normal flywheel....Dunno what was going on there.

Anyway I sacked the lot off and fitted a Valeo solid flywheel kit and it has made precisely zero difference to the way the car drives and thats with one of these Rover Ron tuning boxes on it turned up to max torque settings.

When I was looking for the kit, I found Transmech kits to be about £100 cheaper, but some googling turned up an uncomfortable number of people finding the clutch starting to slip within the first few hundred miles. 

 

 

 

The Valeo solid flywheel kit was a good few hundred Euros cheaper than a replacement DMF and standard clutch kit.

 

DO NOT use a Bork and Beck slave cylinder. Myself and a load of folk on a landrover forum have hassles with them leaking at the quick-release joint. I just bleed mine every couple of weeks until I can be arsed to change it. So probably never.

[bigfella2]

Did'nt somebody on here take a welder to one ?

I'be heard of people welding them up through the starter hole on transhit vans before. Is there any evidence that anyone has actually broken a crank with a smf?