What is too slow then?

[Inspector Morose]

I raise you a Bristol KS5LG, 38mph flat out and about 24 max in 3rd in the drag past the old Triumph factory in Meriden,  you may possibly know the bus

I see your KS5LG and I raise you Bristol L4G. A 30 foot single deck bus fitted with a capacity of about 45 persons with a 4cylinder Gardner of around 60 bhp ish. They couldn't climb hills empty let alone with people on them.

 

Sorry I'm hijacking. Back to ranting about shit cars with no power.

[dugong]

As said above, a great deal depends on how the driver of said car conducts him \ herself behind the wheel. 
In objective terms, it goes without saying that a quick car will have higher (measurable) levels of roadholding, grip and stopping power as far as physics and road surface mu will allow. 

It's also dependent on the characteristics of the engine. A lump with lots of low end torque may feel reasonable at low speeds, despite what the stop-watch reckons. If you ran the knob van against the chrondeks, they'd probably rust into the ground before you got back. It's pitifully slow, but by rowing the gear lever along you can almost convince yourself you're making decent progress - that and the speedo needle stops flickering at around 50 mph. 

Until I drove the MX-3, I realised all the cars I'd owned had been rough, torquey three or four bangers with no top end at all. I struggled to motivate the Mazda in the same way WTC's E36 318is confused me initially - unless there was four or five grand on the rev counter, it felt as if someone had ripped two plug leads off. If someone's unused to the power delivery of a car, they'll take it slowly until familiarity dawns. 

Objectively, the two fastest cars on my fleet would be the 460 Turbo and MX-3, both forgettable, scuffed 'Nineties shapes that people ignore. Visibility is a major factor.
The C4 is on the decent side of slow - 1470kg dry is just too much weight for 92bhp and 161lb\ft of torque to move convincingly. Luckily, it's more or less anonymous and most of the go has disappeared by motorway speeds anyway. 

The Charade attracts derision because it screams 'geriatric' from 300 yards away. Its brakes aren't brilliant and it has no go beyond 45 mph or so, despite a manic engine that convinces you you're going quickly. It doesn't feel slow, but the speedo says otherwise. 
The Amazon is languid, no matter what aficionados will tell you. Most people give it a wide berth but I had a spate of morons brake testing me because seeing how quickly the shit old grand-dad car can stop is a hilarious afternoon's entertainment, or something. 

[Justin Case]

One of the new C Class Mercs has a 1.6 litre Renault engine pumping out a massive 110 bhp. I'll bet that's a real barrel of laughs to drive, especially as no doubt, it is tuned for economy rather than performance

[mouseflakes]

I used to drive one of these.

 

 

It was an automatic and had spent most of its previous life in the Scottish Highlands. The transmission was a bit... 'slippy'.

Pulling out onto a roundabout (any roundabout) was fraught with danger. Correction - using a roundabout that I was pulling out onto in this, was fraught with danger.

 

Here's Sam anyway...

 

[Pete-M]

We've just got Skoda Superb 1.6s in work. 77Kw whatever that is in BHPs, for the last three years I've been driving the 103kw 2.0s.

 

The 1.6s feel dangerously slow to me.

[barefoot]

I've only met you the once,

You were doing handbrake turns in a Zafira?

[barrett]

I'm guessing I'm the only one who's driven a Trojan on solid tyres? Absolute maximum speed of 30mph, and you have to constantly fight to keep it in a straight line. Corners, or even slight directional changes, are best avoided. But it's plenty fast enough, thank you. Once you're in the rythym it's actually a nice touring speed and even a 425cc 2cv feels too fast afterwards. It's all about perspective innit.

[Pete-M]

I've only met you the once,

You were doing handbrake turns in a Zafira?

Zafira? One, in an Alhambra

[RayMK]

Since all vehicles were not born equal, and the road system is for all of us, it is the responsibility of the braincells behind the wheel to figure out how to drive safely.  Having heaps of power but oodles of incompetence and an inability to use the rear view mirrors or indicators will result in the driver being constantly surprised due to a lack of awareness, common sense and anticipation.  Driving low powered vehicles or agricultural machines which top out at around 35mph also carries a responsibility i.e. plan your route to avoid the faster roads wherever possible and let faster stuff past before they get suicidal (for Audi drivers, this sets in after 10 seconds, probably because Audi seats are as comfortable  as a park bench). 

 

My 1961 Reliant Regal MKVI has about 17.5bhp and takes the length of the country to achieve its top speed of 62mph.  It will cruise at 50 to 55mph and generally is treated with great courtesy by other road users.  I, in turn, endeavour to let faster traffic pass whenever possible but try to stay away from major trunk routes.  I've owned a 2cv6 and a Dyane and also found their low power perfectly adequate and extremely enjoyable.  My CX GTI Turbo 2 was fun and a very rapid way of getting from A  to B.  I can't remember ever getting impatient with slower cars.  I do get impatient with idiots who are not paying attention to road conditions, traffic lights, and other road users or the twits who overtake on blind corners or the brow of a hill without signalling, then slow me down because they cannot handle their cars on the wiggly, bumpy bits.

 

To the chap who has driven a Trojan Utility - fantastic!  I've seen them and love their flexi-conrod 2 stroke engine.  There was one in Anna Valley when I lived there in 1960.  It looked ancient even then  .

[Lacquer Peel]

The current model Vauxhall Astra.

We have one at work and it feels glacial even when driven brogue to axeminster.

Looking on Vauxhall's website it apparently has 100bhp (at 6k revs) and 130lbft of torque (at 4k revs). This might be ok had the engine any real desire to rev or if the car wasn't heavier than the moon (seriously, Vauxhall don't publish a kerb weight!).

 

My 2.25 diesel Land Rover had 60bhp at 4k revs and 103lbft at 1800rpm, owing to gearing it was all done at 63mph but it was never a rolling chicane.

 

Parkers lists the kerb weights of Astras, the base model is 1545kg!!

For a bit of perspective, a Vauxhall Omega 2.0 petrol estate weighs 1525kg.

[brickwall]

As Albert said - IIa Diesel. You had to plan well ahead.

[dollywobbler]

 What I do get is moderns that baulk me, for instance the approach to an incline needs to be attacked in a steady manner. Not normally. Some dick in a Honda will overtake, and gently crawl back down to a speed just under where I need to be to climb without dropping 4 of my half-gears. Thus putting strain on my layshaft bearings etc. Cocks.

 

This happens all the bloody time! If I'm in the 2CV, the last thing I want to do is ease off the throttle going uphill. Hardknott Pass was thoroughly ruined for me some years ago by twats in moderns stealing all of my momentum, and forcing a double-declutch down into first gear. People in powerful cars have no idea how valuable momentum is.

[RobT]

Me driving a V6 Rover 75 seems too slow for everyone else, if yesterday was anything to go by.

 

This is why I like owning several cars. Some days I just want to waft along, but then on others I like a lively, torquey 4 cylinder to rag about in.

[fordperv]

I have longed to drive a 1.3 sierra to feel it's misery, I imagine it to be like trying to drive a 957 fiesta up a steep hill (957 fiesta is the slowest thing I have driven)

[AlabamaShrimp]

I have longed to drive a 1.3 sierra to feel it's misery, I imagine it to be like trying to drive a 957 fiesta up a steep hill (957 fiesta is the slowest thing I have driven)

Lol you need to come and have a go in mine, it's not as slow as you think

[oman5]

This happens all the bloody time! If I'm in the 2CV, the last thing I want to do is ease off the throttle going uphill. Hardknott Pass was thoroughly ruined for me some years ago by twats in moderns stealing all of my momentum, and forcing a double-declutch down into first gear. People in powerful cars have no idea how valuable momentum is.

I drive 44 ton artics for a job. People who do this make me very upset, momentum is everything with a wagon.

 

I did actually do a timed acceleration test once, 2003 Scania R420 with an empty taut liner, weight around 15 tons. 0-56 in 28 seconds which isn't bad considering!

[2MB]

Parkers lists the kerb weights of Astras, the base model is 1545kg!!

For a bit of perspective, a Vauxhall Omega 2.0 petrol estate weighs 1525kg.

That goes a long way towards explaining how diabolically slow the 1.6 Astra I had to use for a while was. The German guy I was working with was unimpressed; it seems opels have the same crumbling rep among car people as vauxhalls do here (on autoshite if not in the uk)

[Tayne]

I used to drive one of these.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that a still from Lovejoy?

[trigger]

I think it all depends on where your driving, that Suzuki Alto I had was a 798cc and I doubt there was much that could touch it around town, It would nip of the lights quickly and it would slip in and out of traffic like a stealth bomber, but show it a duel carriageway and it was bloody petrifying, lorries would over take and you'd have no power to get out of trouble, not fun at all.

[Richard]

Is that a still from Lovejoy?

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_46427-Seddon-Atkinson-2-11-1989.html

[320touring]

After managing 200 miles in 3hrs, and 229 in 3H 29mins- I can confirm that a 1.9D N/a 6n polo is NOT too slow:)

[Lacquer Peel]

After managing 200 miles in 3hrs, and 229 in 3H 29mins- I can confirm that a 1.9D N/a 6n polo is NOT too slow:)

 

My Golf 1.9D seemed happier at 80-90MPH than 50-60. I blame the old Germans and their obsession with high speed cruising.

[saucedoctor]

I had a Polo 6n 1.9D in 2000. It was pretty decent on the motorway, and not too noisy. It also stood up pretty well to being T-Boned my a BFO Mercedes van.

 

But that fuckin stereo -bebopbebopbebop every time you switched off the ignition....

[spike60]

bebopbebopbebop is usually an aftermarket Sony. I've got 2, very annoying.

[saucedoctor]

They were factory fit on some VWs for a while, too. I must still have it somewhere, as I took it out before the insurance company took the car away to be squashed. God only knows where it is.

[dollywobbler]

Oh yes. I remember that shitty beep very well. Nice one Sony.

I can also confirm that there are plenty of vehicles which take less than 10 seconds to get to 60 and are still fun. I know a fair few that take longer than 20.

On paper, later Morris Minors are pretty similar to 2CVs in performance terms, but Minors don't feel joyous to thrash.

[Lacquer Peel]

[oman5]

My Golf 1.9D seemed happier at 80-90MPH than 50-60. I blame the old Germans and their obsession with high speed cruising.

I had a mk3 golf 1.9d, you'd expect it to be slow but it really wasn't. Not fast but certainly adequate to go with the flow without being dangerously outpaced. I really rate those engines, they are long lived and pokey.

[New POD]

1.4 AX deseasal echo with 185/55/13 tyres on the M65 going uphill near blackburn into a head wind in the pissing down rain, and dark.

 

What possessed me to commute daily from Formby (L37) to Eastern Avenue, Burnley, I have no idea. (That was 14 years ago)

[dugong]

On paper, later Morris Minors are pretty similar to 2CVs in performance terms, but Minors don't feel joyous to thrash

Other cars in 'don't drive anything like a 2CV' shocker.

 

For the record, Jozza's 2CV was a riot, but I had to adjust how I drove quite a lot. Wringing the engine out was not something I was familiar with, nor the Lee Enfield gearchange. Or the body roll. Or the breezes. Other driving techniques are available.

 

I tried to have similar words with a Mini-mad cretin at Lancaster (he'd had six Minis and nothing else) who borrowed my 306 against my better judgement, thrashed it senseless and came back telling me it was 'fucking shit' and 'nowhere near as quick' as a Mini. Of course a 306 will be shit if you drive it like a Mini, they're about three times the size and weight. Then again, I'm a fan of demisting, working electrics, brakes that do and suspension that doesn't bounce you into a hedge the second you take a cambered bump. Silly me. Modern cars owe the Mini a great deal, but as an everyday conveyance they leave a lot to be desired, even by the standards of an average 'Seventies car.

 

The first set of twisty roads out of Lancaster heading towards Glasson Dock I left his little fartbox for dead. Some folk are so insular they have no idea - and my 306 was dog-slow anyway.