New RFL rules

[carlo]

I'm confused, can anyone help with this question.

 

I have a 406 currently taxed until the end of October, so 5 weeks left.

 

As I understand it, if I sell the car in September, the buyer can keep the tax on the car and not have to tax it until 1/11/14

 

However if I sell it from the 1st October onwards, he cannot keep the tax and has to tax it himself from 1/10/14 and I have to surrender the disc (although it would be worthless as less than a month.)

 

Is that right?

[e287yba]

Yes.

[Partridge]

You will still be able to cash the tax in though.

[Richard]

No he won't, because it won't have a full month to run. The remaining tax will be surrendered and lost.

[mat_the_cat]

A couple of times I've posted the tax disc back on the first day of the month in which it expires, and got a refund cheque. The first time it happened I was pissed off that I'd forgotten to do it earlier, but I went to a PO and got proof of postage, fully prepared to argue the unfairness of it if I was expected to drive around with no tax disc for the last few days of the preceding month. But to my surprise I got a refund with no trouble, so there's either a few days grace period, or they look at the date it was posted. The latter seems unlikely as it doesn't lend itself to automation very well, but I've never chanced it by posting it back on the 2nd!

[Guest Lord Sward]

I thought you couldn't cash in road tax on discs where the annual charge was £35 or less?

[forddeliveryboy]

What happens when the tax due is £0? Has that to be 'cashed in' and the new owner 'purchase' more? All seems weird not having to have proof of insurance any more.

[e287yba]

On reflection, I believe that if the OP sells his car in October and sends the paperwork (half the V5C from memory) off, he will get any refund due on the old tax disc (in his case - sadly - nowt as it has less than a month to run ).

 

Post-October The First, there is no need to surrender the disc 'cos it is no longer applicable/relevant...

[CortinaDave]

Whole thing is just designed to con you. There's no reason whatsoever to make the tax non transferable, and no reason not to be able to refund you to the day, not month given there are no physical discs involved now, other than so they can scam the public for yet more money for sod all.

[Bren]

If your tax expires end of september, and you buy it now, does that mean you get a disc? Remember, it does'nt come into effect until oct 1st.

[vulgalour]

I begin to wonder if the confusion of the new RFL rules (even to those of us with a modicum of intelligence) will lead to more tax evasion, not less.  I love the notion of monthly direct debit for the convenience, but I can't help thinking I'm going to get megascammed on any new purchase.

 

I'm going to avoid all this RFL nonsense by never buying another car and just keeping my existing ones going with gaffer tape and Hairy Yellow String .

[cort16]

Here's a big web chat Q&A with car dealers on this PDF. It answers most of the questions. I think alot of dealers are going to get stung as they're going to lose the RFL sitting on their stock vehicles that are "in trade" unless they register them all in their names. Other wise come the 1st when they sell the car the refund will go back to the previous owner.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/355711/Vehicle_tax_changes_webchat_transcript_170914.pdf

[RobT]

If your tax expires end of september, and you buy it now, does that mean you get a disc? Remember, it does'nt come into effect until oct 1st.

No, as the new tax is valid from the day the rules change. I've just taxed the 220 online as it runs out end of September and you'll be greeted with the message 'Thank you for your payment. The law has changed, you do not need to display a tax disc, therefore we will not issue one to you'. That's the makers of Magnetax holders out of a job then.

[Bren]

No, as the new tax is valid from the day the rules change. I've just taxed the 220 online as it runs out end of September and you'll be greeted with the message 'Thank you for your payment. The law has changed, you do not need to display a tax disc, therefore we will not issue one to you'. That's the makers of Magnetax holders out of a job then.

Received and understood.

 

However, I am surprised at how few people actually know what is going on.

 

Cue lots of secondhand car buyers saying "So i've got to tax it as well".

[Pillock]

I'm just annoyed that they can't make all the changes on the same day.

I've got to tax the MG, but I'm a bit skint and can't scrape together £126 right now - weddings seem to be a bit expensive.

Had it been Direct Debitable, I'd have maybe done October and November, seen how much I use it through the winter, and either keep going or SORN. This way, I have to SORN it for October when we might still have nice weather, and then I can choose to do it one month at a time.

 

I wonder how the DD system will cope with enthusiasts just dropping in and out of taxing their car, whether the system will keep up. I know MID can take 14 days to show changes, if this is similar then it'll be wrong up to 50% of the time!

[Pillock]

You'll know how many people know what's going off, by how many ebay and gumtree adverts there are from next week onwards saying "xx months tax" or "will tax at buyers expense". 

[dollywobbler]

Pilock - my 2CV is out of tax at the end of the month. I'm also short of cash, so plan to wait until 6th, then try the direct debit option. Looks like I may have to go to a Post Office to do that though? We already get five days grace (if not SORN) so I can't see it being a problem. Will find out soon!

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Just discovered that the monthly direct debit thing doesn't start until November, absolute fucking genius !

The Rover of Zoom tax expires at the end of September, at the moment Daughter no2 is using it to get to and from part time waitress job, when she goes back to uni it will probably be parked up so would SORN it for November and maybe tax again in December,the monthly thing would be perfect, instead I have to tax normally for 6 months( albeit with no disc) then cancel and get refund at end of October then start monthly in December.

 

A cynical person might just not bother, as for the first few months you're bound* to get away with no tax, as DVLA won't have a clue what's going on.

[Jim Bell]

I just taxed the mazda and there's no disc, and I get no direct debit options.

 

Best of no worlds.

[dollywobbler]

Just discovered that the monthly direct debit thing doesn't start until November, absolute fucking genius !

 

Really? I shall double check with my DVLA contact as that'll be a right pisser. 

[dugong]

Just discovered that the monthly direct debit thing doesn't start until November, absolute fucking genius !

Really? I shall double check with my DVLA contact as that'll be a right pisser.

Naughty. They're going to rake it in next month then, as people who need to re-tax a car for October have no choice to tax for 6 months.

 

They're going to get me on the KNOB VAN - although there's nothing to stop me from taking the hit for six, using it in October, re-SORNing it and claiming the refund back when the monthly direct debit kicks in. The money moving through the DVLA's coffers is going to look impressive on a balance sheet. It remains to be seen how well the MID \ PNC \ DVLA computer system will cope - maybe it needs another month to test all its functions.

 

Bait and switch seems to be a common tactic at the moment - outline a controversial issue, and then drop something else in casually - a bit like when Boris outlined his diesel congestion charge supplement, and then casually mentioned all pre-2006 petrol cars would be hit with the same charge by 2020.

 

Very few places went big on that - the BBC mentioned it, and we tried to make a fuss about it in CCB (not an anagram).

[dollywobbler]

Have confirmed with DVLA. Direct Debit will be an option ONLINE from 1st October. So no Post Office visit necessary. If you fancy your post mistress, you will be able to pay by direct debit there from 5 October (even though that's a Sunday...)

[mercrocker]

It seems to me there are three definite outcomes here....

 

 

1. It will cost us more

 

2. The DVLA won't keep up and the data will be incorrect resulting in innocent people being "taxed" again

 

3. Foreign registered cars and serial tax evaders towing twin axle caravans will still escape absolutely untaxed (of course they are all law-abiding citizens who maintain full insurance so we wont have to worry about being rammed by one...)

 

And finally, I don't fancy my post mistress so I can foresee an increase in the tax-exempt element of my fleet....

[mat_the_cat]

Wonder if you have to send back the old tax disc when cashing in existing tax? I'd kind of like to keep the last disc issued. Although it would cost more in the long run, it's mightily tempting to get a refund on what's currently taxed in the fleet, and just do the monthly DD to get a bit of cash in my pocket, so to speak.

[vulgalour]

I wonder if tax evasion is actually easier now.  If you had a fleet of vehicles of the same colour and make and you wanted to only tax one but use all three to save money then why don't you just swap the number plate of the taxed vehicle with the others?

 

HIGHLY ILLEGAL I KNOW I WOULDN'T DO IT

 

These sorts of things worry me.  What's stopping someone from doing this?  What was ever stopping anyone from doing this?  Perhaps people do it already.  Thinking about it, you could have done the same thing with tax discs.

[dollywobbler]

Nothing has ever stopped people from vehicle cloning. That's why they do it. May be an even more likely thing to occur now. It's why, in theory, it should be really hard to get number plates made up without actual credentials. Of course, it isn't really hard at all. 

[Pillock]

Have confirmed with DVLA. Direct Debit will be an option ONLINE from 1st October. So no Post Office visit necessary. If you fancy your post mistress, you will be able to pay by direct debit there from 5 October (even though that's a Sunday...)

 

Coming round here, with all your lah-de-dah facts, getting in the way of PURE RUMOUR.

 

It was here that I read it as being November, if it is October then that's a slight result. For me, and the few other folks it affects anyway. Still, one source is wrong - will it be the DVLA, or a bunch of people on a forum? PLACE YOUR BETS.

 

 

The car cloning tax-one-run-many isn't really going to be a worry for the DVLA, the new rules don't make it any easier. When was the last time anyone looked at your tax disc, like properly examined it? Photocopies would pass muster. Plus ANPR is widespread enough and I'd imagine it wouldn't take much computery-wizardry to work out that the same registration plate has just passed a camera in Harrogate, and one in Exeter, twelve minutes apart and that's not possible. Flag gets put on your reg, the next time the police see any of your cars they pull it and check the VIN. Course, you could swap the VIN too but this is getting more complex, and less worth it, all the time. You'd then have to swap the VIN back to sell it on. 

[John F]

Bren, on 23 Sept 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

If your tax expires end of september, and you buy it now, does that mean you get a disc? Remember, it does'nt come into effect until oct 1st.

 

I've just re-taxed the Discovery, albeit from the start of September 'cos I need to drive it now.

 

I got a disc which expires on 31 August 2015

[NorfolkNWeigh]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes

From 1 October 2014 (5 October if setting up at a Post Office®), Direct Debit will be offered as an additional way to pay for vehicle tax. This will be available for customers who need to tax their vehicle from 1 November 2014:

 

DVLA- 0

Blokes on a forum-1

[dollywobbler]

Right. "Dear press person, please tell me what the actual truth is" email coming up.