Renault 6TL "Crapaud"

[plasticvandan]

The vulgalor method:washes sunvisors,has no idea if engine runs. Lol

[vulgalour]

It's a perfectly sound method.  I'm not putting off a job I'm scared of.  I'm not.  Not a bit of it.

[Split_Pin]

Sometimes it's good to get some different and more satisfying jobs done when the crappy jobs get you down. My car has an incurable and intermittent mystery running issue and is laid up so obviously to get it back in the road I am spending money on painting bits.

[vulgalour]

Today I intended to get the passenger side gutter sorted out and ready for filler and paint.  I got as far as the first stage of trimming back and tacking so I can build the repair sections where needed when the welding gas ran out.  That was quite annoying because until I've repaired the roof there's a few jobs it holds up.  The headlining can't be fitted until the roof is repaired, which also means the windscreen can't come out to have the leak sorted and the dashboard has to wait a bit longer before its refitted.  Still, it's a bit of progress and a bit of rust removed, just got to wait on the new gas bottle being ordered and delivered now.  The roof this side isn't quite as bad as I'd expected, I should only need a couple of very small pieces of new metal let in where the old has dissolved.

 

There wasn't much point doing anything engine-wise either, we've been unable to contact the starter motor refurbisher and rather than having parts lying loose about the place it seemed more sensible to just leave things as they are.  I didn't really have the time spare today to do the exhaust or brakes so I looked at the smaller jobs and settled for one of the important ones, namely replacing the 10 fixing bolts for the ball joints with nice new proper ones and nyloc nuts.  I can't put the bolts in the other way up as they won't physically fit, the new ones do clear everything as far as I can tell.  The old improper fixings that came with the new ball joints were so ill-suited that some had already started to work loose and one had bent, particularly alarming considering the car has only been pushed around the unit at walking speed since fitting them.  The quality (or lack thereof) of the supplied fixings concerns me when it comes to the quality of the ball joints themselves, time will tell on that front I suppose.

 

 

There weren't really any quick jobs to do after that and I had other things that needed doing so I just had a tidy up and called it a day.  I'll likely not be working on this again now until next week.  There's an awful lot of mud coming from somewhere under the car, every time I do anything another massive amount of dried out mud appears on the floor.

[anonymous user]

The vulgalor method:washes sunvisors,has no idea if engine runs. Lol

It worked really well with Christine

[vulgalour]

Like Christine, Crapaud was found in a field all abandoned.  That's precisely where the similarity ends.  To my knowledge this car has never self-healed, never turned on its own radio or lights (it can't with the former, there isn't one) and never tried to kill anyone, much less one of my rivals.

[anonymous user]

Give it time

[Uncle Jimmy]

Enjoying this thread ×93.

[dollywobbler]

Did Renaults of this period not have starting handles? Just thinking out loud. Citroens certainly had them. Even the ones with the gearbox ahead of the engine.

[wuvvum]

 

Today I intended to get the passenger side gutter sorted out and ready for filler and paint.  I got as far as the first stage of trimming back and tacking so I can build the repair sections where needed when the welding gas ran out. 

 

 

[vulgalour]

Today it was decided to make a proper effort on the front brakes.  Luckily, my brother turned up because it was one of *those* jobs as it happens.  Is there a reason French cars have to have daft brake set ups?  It's really annoying.  The front discs on the 6 are sandwiched between the two halves of the hub.  It's a very silly design and does not make changing discs easy, I was not happy about this job.  The wording in the Haynes book was also less than good (as has come to be expected of it) so some improvising had to happen.  The advise is to remove three of the disc retaining bolts and put in some longer bar and then the bolts to push the two halves of the hub apart.  You can't use a hub puller as there's nothing for the arms to attach to and you have to split the hub to get the disc out.

 

We started by trying out some what should have been toughened bolts with the heads chopped off in place of the rod suggested in the book.  That just resulted in a small amount of movement and bent threaded bar.

 

Then we found some better, longer bolts and some nuts and devised a method that actually worked.  We removed all of the disc retaining bolts so it could be pushed back off the hub face, then put a longer bolt through with a nut on the back.  Three bolts were used in total to push the hub apart, it worked very well.  When the bolts proved to be a little too short we improvised using some closed-end wheel nuts that had a flat seat one side and a dimple the other, rendering them perfect for the job.

 

Then one of the replacement bolts decided it didn't like being threaded any more so we had to rejig with just two.  Much slower going and with a great deal of care taken but we did get there in the end.

 

With the outer half of the hub off it's really easy to replace the disc but we found it very difficult to keep the bearing, driveshaft and hub halves lined up on the car so removed the hub and put it all together on the workbench before sliding the whole hub back home onto the drive shaft and ball joints.  Surprisingly easy to bolt back together and now we know how not to do it, the other side should be much easier.  Nice to see shiny things on the car.

 

In no time the old disc was heading binwards and the new one was sitting pretty on the car where it belongs.

 

Next was the caliper.  The piston was seized and over extended but otherwise complete and in good order.  We were particularly surprised when the bleed nipple and flexihose unbolted from the caliper without difficulty.  The old brake fluid that came out was a less pleasant surprise, smelled just like rat wee.  I was surprised there was any fluid in the system at all.

 

The second set of brake pads I bought were correct, happily.

 

They were also very needed.

 

The caliper was taken apart as much as it would go and with some persuasion the piston was convinced to move again.  Another pleasant surprise that.  Before reassembling the caliper we wanted to make sure fresh fluid was getting through the system from the master cylinder.  Filled up the tiny reservoir, which is a challenge because of the various cables that run over the top of it.

 

Gave the pedal a few goes and nothing.  Cracked off the brake lines from the master cylinder and... nothing.  Cracked off the big nut on the end to see if it would at least let all the fluid in the reservoir leak onto the floor but nope, nada, zilch.  That'll be a dead master cylinder then, which is hardly surprising.  I need one like this which has two outlets on the top and one outlet on the driver's side.

 

 

Tidied up, put the wheels back on and left it at that for today.  As an aside, I had difficulty pushing the car today to get it where I wanted it to go, just wouldn't budge!  Guess which moron had left the handbrake on?  Still, at least half the brakes work.

[vulgalour]

I reckon it's this one I need, there's quite a few listed and most of them look different to the one I've got.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-RENAULT-6-DISC-BRAKES-/381629911616

 

 

The holes all look to be in the places they should be and it's only £20 delivered.

[michael1703]

Knowing your luck with Renault parts, it's probably SLIGHTLY different,but fingers crossed its correct

[vulgalour]

My most recent purchases have all been wrong so I have high hopes this is the 1 in 4 that I get right on the first go.

[vulgalour]

Driver's side of the roof has already been welded, tidied and given first fill.  Today I gave it second fill and once that's sanded back I should be able to put a final coat of paint on it.  Not looking too shabby, all things considered.

 

The passenger side was much more difficult to do.  There's more damage on this side of the roof and the metal needed much more work to be weldable but it is now done.  After it was welded and dressed back I got some filler on the whole length so I can smooth it out and make it look tidier.  There's only two more bits of welding needed to the bottom corners of the scuttle to do but I hadn't the time to take off the wings today to do it.

 

For the MoT, no welding is required at all now.  The A pillar sections of the guttering are staying, they're in good shape and it's pointless making work for myself removing them.  I've tidied up the sharp edges, ditched the damaged stainless trim and will leave them alone.  If I do decide to put full gutters back on the car it will be easier with these sections still present.

 

The other item of note is a decision on the finish of the car.  For the most part it will stay looking as it does now, I don't want to change that.  It's really liberating having a car you don't need to worry about dents and scratches on.  Any repairs I do will be repainted in whatever colour is suitable and to hand.  Filler work will be finished so that it's not obviously filler, so no lumps or steps as you'd get from a half done job, but I shan't be taking all of the dents out.  Indeed, on the driver's side of the roof I've gone to some effort to keep some of the smaller dents over the front door.  That will mean this car's appearance will evolve.  Any rust that looks like it's getting too bubbly and turning into holes will be removed, welded up and the area repainted, any rust that's just staying as surface and not getting worse will be left alone.

 

I will be cleaning the Renault once I've got the roof filler work finished and paint on and then it will get a protective oily rag wiped over the bodywork and that's how I'll maintain it cosmetically.  It's an exciting project for me because it's so different to how I normally look after a car and with me nearing completion on the work needed for the MoT roadworthiness seems likely before too much longer.  I still haven't started the engine but I know it turns freely so there's nothing more I can do until I get the starter motor sorted out, the chap responsible is effectively the Scarlet Pimpernel at the moment.

 

Here's the list of works still to do to be 'finished':

Replace headlight

Run wiring for reversing lights

Fit spot lights

Refit points, check leads are in correct order

Refurbish starter motor and refit

Repair and check radiator

Fit front disc brake, disc pads and master cylinder before bleeding system

Repair bottom outer corners of scuttle/windscreen surround (last bit of welding)

Fit exhaust

Buy and fit tyres

Refit dashboard

Fit headlining

Refit rear side windows

 

Not a great deal left to do, happily.

[The Moog]

That is going to look ace when it is finished. Can't wait for the final pics

[dollywobbler]

Brilliant. Oily rag will be the perfect look for this car. There are one or two really nice ones in this country. Surely there aren't any that look like this one?

[michael1703]

C'mon mister, we want this roadworthy ASAP!

 

Things you don't need to get an mot:

 

Reverse lights

Spot lights

Windows

Headlining

Smooth filler

[jonathan_dyane]

Does it actually like go yet?

[jonathan_dyane]

Outstanding work in all other areas mind!

[vulgalour]

Does it actually like go yet?

 

Not yet, just being held up by that starter motor refurb not happening.  There should be no reason for it not to go though, I've done everything I can to make it happen.

[DSdriver]

maybe this will help

http://only-carz.com/image.php?pic=../data_images/gallery/02/renault-6-gtl/renault-6-gtl-07.jpg

How did you manage to find something that was actually useful on that site? It has more mis-information than HBOL in the Citroen section.

[plasticvandan]

I don't think I could have the patience (insanity?) To do all this work and not hear it run! Not thought about bumping it?tow it round the yard?

[vulgalour]

Thought about it, for sure, just not had two people with spare time together at the same time to do it.  Frustrating~

 

I try not to think about it, I'm desperate to have a wobble around the yard in this thing under its own power.

[danthecapriman]

Excellent work.

I've managed to miss a lot of your updates on this but it's come along really well. The roof looks a million times better now the gutter sections are done.

It'll be nice to see it left as it is too, you don't see cars that look like this very often anymore, which is a shame! Patch up and sort the important bits is definitely the way to go.

[Eddie Honda]

I'm still waiting for it NOT to fire up here...

[vulgalour]

Today I stole a few minutes while having lunch and commandeered Mike into helping replace the master cylinder that arrived this morning.  A fiddly job, made more annoying by a lack of access and, for the lower bolt and pedal plunger assembly needing two people to keep it all lined up and frustration at a minimum. Old (right) and new (left) on the bench, thankfully it is the correct part and they are identical apart from condition.

 

Cleaned the pedal plunger bit up because it looked a bit worse for wear before putting it all back in the car.

 

The brake fluid reservoir was fitted with a new copper crush washer to replace the old one.  Refitting is slightly more fiddly than removal, there's very little space to actually get tools, let alone hands, into the gaps around this part.  All three brake lines reattached without any bother at all.

 

Pedal side of it all went together fairly easily and was given a new split pin.  Pedal actually feels to travel properly now even without fluid in the system, it feels more as a brake pedal should where before it was just sort of floppy.

 

We bench tested the starter motor and it sounds all kinds of broken.  The solenoid isn't activating, the bearings sound like they're made of gravel and it's spinning pretty weakly when it does bother to actually work.  Only had enough time to refit the points but not to gap them yet.  I'm hoping to find some time over the weekend to get the front brakes finished.  Starting the engine is still going to have to wait a while.

[vulgalour]

Didn't have time for doing fluid and whatever, I only had about an hour spare and I'm now back at my desk.  It's identical to the one pictured, right down to the box it came in, but it looks like it's been repainted silver.  All the plugs were still in the holes as if it were new so maybe they had more than one in stock but only one listed or something?

[Jifflemon]

Those starters come apart fairly simply - You'll probably find the brushes have just worn down.

 

Solonoid cap can be de-soldered and the contacts cleaned/replaced.

[vulgalour]

I had an unexpected half-day today so spent my spare time on the Renault, it's rare I get the luxury of bonus car time.  Decided the best thing to do would be to get the brakes finished and take some pictures to illustrate how the front discs are done.  After removing the wheel and putting it on stands, put the car in reverse to undo the hub nut if you haven't someone to help brace the wheel and then undo the nuts holding the disc to the outer hub.  After that, put some bolts through the holes in the hub so the end of the thread rests on the disc face.

 

I had three bolts I could use and this makes life easier.  Fit a nut on the bolt between the outer hub and the disc brake.  Working on one bolt at a time, tighten the bolt with a spanner holding the nut to ease the hub apart.  It's steady going, but quick enough really.  Changing discs is hopefully not a job you do that often.

 

You do need to get the outer hub to move quite a long way and my bolts weren't long enough.  I spaced them out with some sturdy wheel nuts that have a solid dimple in one end and  good flat face the other.  This allowed me to remove the outer hub completely and safely.

 

With the outer hub off, you remove the old disc, put the new one on and refit the outer hub.  I was quite lucky on this side as the hub halves went together very smoothly.  A little bit of hammering was required to knock the outer hub home but once you've got enough driveshaft thread through you can put the bolt on and tighten it up.  You might need to use the hammer to help a bit as I did on this one but eventually you get the hub safely back together and can then bolt the disc in place.  After that be sure to tighten the hub nut.

 

With both discs now renewed, the new pads could be fitted.  It's a bit of a faff and I found the best way was to bolt the carrier to the hub with the pads in and then fit the caliper and shims and pins in situ.  The last thing to go on was the dust shield and then the brakes were bled pushing out lots of air and a bit of really disgusting contaminated old brake fluid.

 

 

The old pads that came out were very dead.

 

After getting the fronts bled the brake pedal felt quite good and my brother and I jacked up the rear end to see if they worked on the pedal.  I knew the rear brakes did work on the pedal when it came off the trailer over a year ago but hadn't tested them beyond that.  Happily, both wheels stop satisfactorily on the pedal and the handbrake works, whether it's good enough for the MoT remains to be seen but I'm satisfied that we now have functioning brakes on all four corners.

 

But wait, there's more!

 

The filler work on the roof was completed and the paint put on.  I've gone for a unique approach of layering different coloured aerosols to make the repaired areas blend in with the rest of the car and not jump out.  It's so effective I'm running with it for everything.  Some dents are left in on purpose because they're part of this car's story and will be a talking point when I get to using the car, I'm sure.  The camera has mostly picked out purple on the passenger side but there's red, blue and beige over the green and blue paint already on the car in this area.

 

 

 

The small bit of damage that was welded on the rear wing was given the same treatment, to good effect.

 

 

The driver's side got the filler work finished and the final coat of paint on, orange instead of purple on this side until the orange ran out.

 

 

Of note is the small peep/overtaking mirror that I got for very little on eBay.  It was originally destined for the Princess but was far too small so became a neat addition for the Renault.

 

I think the next job is likely removal and refitting of the windscreen so the reversing light wiring, headlining, rear side windows and dashboard can all go back in as that's the biggest job on the list.  I will attempt an engine start when I have the help available which might be this weekend.  I'm running out of jobs to do, which is very nice.  I have very little on my shopping list too, just two generic exhaust clamps, the headlight and a set of tyres.