NOVA. This Govt's latest little scam

[nigel bickle]

Here's a new one, I didn't see coming.

 

Until recently, when importing a car, I evaluated, it, mended it MOT'd it then sorted the paperwork with DVLA for initial registration etc.

 

Now however, you have to NOVA it -WITHIN 2 WEEKS - AND THE IMPLICATIONS OF 'DELAY' ARE HUGE!

 

You'll recall I recently acquired a Seat Ronda, which with minor amendment will go straight through an MOT. Ill health has delayed that, but over Xmas my kids helped, and its now ready for its first foray out for inspection.

 

Anticipating a pass, I researched NOVA, the new system for evaluating tax take, on all imports. The tax levels haven't changed, and as its come from France, I didn't envisage a problem.

 

I completed the online application, to receive confirmation that I owed NO Tax, but a £260 FINE for registering late!

 

It seems that 2 weeks are allowed, then any delay thereafter incurs a £5 PER DAY fine -irrespective of the amount of tax owing.

 

I have, naturally, appealed, and will let you know the outcome, but in the event I lose, the car is going back to France. I will not be paying this fine, and since I wont be able to UK register; it cant stay here.

 

I suspect this to be unforeseen 'creep', but until its sorted it could prove to be a massive pain to us who import old cars needing work; or that aren't immediately going to take to the road.

 

Beware!

 

 

 

[HMC]

Was on the phone again to HMRC again today re the very same matter. Things changed in April

13 with this NOVA system. I was unclear wether I should use online nova, a paper nova, or the old ce384 form. Apparently as I'm a private importer I do the 384, which I'm hoping to drop in as I declare at customs or within the 2 week window. HMRC then enter it on the nova system themselves manually.

[derskine]

Did someone say Nova?

 

[panhard65]

Yeap I nearly got caught out with this one. There has been no mention of it in the press so a fine sounds a bit over the top. I only found out because the people I sold the Acadiane to rang me up asking for a date of import so they could fill the form in. They were VAT registered and bought it for business use which is probably the only reason they found out about it. I did the R2087 as soon as I brought it over. The process is very straight forward if you are signed up on the government gateway thing. Being self employed I am already, but I can see this causing real problems for anyone just bringing one car over. You would think customs would tell you when you arrive with one on a trailer that you have to declare it. I got pulled when I brought the Acadiane in as they wanted to ask a few questions, but they said nothing about NOVA which was in at the time. I would complain very strongly and suggest that they put notices up at points of entry about this new process.  I didn't know there was a paper form all I could find was it had to be done on line and that the old VAT515 forms were no longer to be used. Bloody ridiculus when there is no VAT to pay on imports from the EU

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What a flipping joke. My green 929 is still on its French plates so it sounds like this could be a problem for me

[panhard65]

What's to stop a mis-declaration of date of import?

 

ie "It only made it into the country within the last two weeks."

That is probably the best idea as they aren't paying any attention to what is coming in at the port. There might be a way round it if the car has been here before NOVA was set up. I think Nigels problem comes from it coming in after NOVA was introduced. Bloody tax man is trying to find new ways of extracting cash from us now. I think it was set up to try and crack down on all the eastern european cars over here that don't get registered. I have a customer with a hungarian registered car that has spent most of it's time here over the last 4 or 5 years. He just goes home for holidays and gets away with it

[Station]

Why was this put in place?

Sounds like it's only purpose is to put an extreme inconvenience on anyone doing it, and therefore resulting in a fine.

Are these meetings conducting while on drugs?

[nigel bickle]

Lets see how it goes, eh!

 

Niceties 'in the system' tell you to appeal -IN WRITING, (no online appeals allowed) to the address on their reply.

 

There is NO address, phone number or any sort of point of contact, on their reply -and no way of corresponding..

 

Took me over an hour (and I'm still not sure I've sent it to the correct address).

 

I sent it to HM Rev & Customs- Default & Surcharge appeals, Crownhill Court, Tailyour Rd, Crownhill, Plymouth PL6 5BZ -for those of you with this prob looming. I'll let you know if that's correct.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

That is probably the best idea as they aren't paying any attention to what is coming in at the port. There might be a way round it if the car has been here before NOVA was set up. I think Nigels problem comes from it coming in after NOVA was introduced. Bloody tax man is trying to find new ways of extracting cash from us now. I think it was set up to try and crack down on all the eastern european cars over here that don't get registered. I have a customer with a hungarian registered car that has spent most of it's time here over the last 4 or 5 years. He just goes home for holidays and gets away with it

 

Presumably he can just carry on doing that, if he's happy to 'not import' his hungarian car he can just carry on as before.

 

As for fining you £5/day fine for not declaring on time, this seems mental, who exactly is being inconvenienced or disavantaged by you not making the declaration? Its seems like a straightforward lie about when you fetched the car into the country (seeing as this date it totally meaningless anyway, they might as well ask you when was the last time you ate tinned sardines) might be the way to go.

[nigel bickle]

Agreed. Either way, its free or its not staying.

 

I'll keep you posted.

[Mr Livered]

Absolutely. Especially if the car is still used for trips abroad, because you could give the date you last returned to the UK as the date of import and it wouldn't really feel like a very big fib.

 

Edit: sorry, cross posted with Nigel, I was responding to Bollox's suggestion that importers deploy a small pork-pie re date of import.

[Bobthebeard]

 

Tinned sardine tax? Lol! Not as implausible as you might think.

Those 'in charge' have been dreaming up ever more creative* methods of relieving the peasants of money since time began. Check out Chancel Repair Liability on Google. Only a matter of time until you will have to chip in to restore a nearby crumbling Anglican church!

[Cavcraft]

If you get a fine and have to pay it, I supposed your knackered. How much does it cost to take a car on the ferry return though? Im just thinking if it were cheaper could you not return it to France then gdet someone else to import it the moment it landed again?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

The more I think about it the crazier it is. They have no way of knowing when you brought a car into the country. They don’t record chassis numbers and crossing dates etc for every car coming through Dover docks on a trailer, if they did it would be essentially illegal to bring one across the border without bringing it to their attention so they could record it for revenue purposes (plus I imagine that would be very close to contravening the regs about free movement of goods etc within the EU). So they’re totally dependent on you telling them when you brought it in. But if you tell them it was more than a fortnight ago they slap a massive fine on yo’ ass. Mental!!!!

[nigel bickle]

Dunno.   They have the VIN as part of the process, so I cant see they'll take kindly to that.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

maybe I could buy it off you in france for £1 then import it myself, register it and sell it back to you for £3 (capitalism innit)

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Did someone say Nova?

 

 

That's a Corsa! 

[derskine]

That's a Corsa! 

 

Lol, I didn't look at the badge, I'm just going to blame someone else because I googled Vauxhall Nova.

Blame it on the spanish.

[nigel bickle]

The ramifications of this are potentially huge for cars imported into the UK sometime back. The fine is so large that the car can never really go back on the road, legally, unless its re-exported first!

 

So ,all those imported for restoration could well be in for a substantial bill (fine) when they come to legalise!

[Station]

Lets see how it goes, eh!

 

Niceties 'in the system' tell you to appeal -IN WRITING, (no online appeals allowed) to the address on their reply.

 

There is NO address, phone number or any sort of point of contact, on their reply -and no way of corresponding..

 

Took me over an hour (and I'm still not sure I've sent it to the correct address).

 

I sent it to HM Rev & Customs- Default & Surcharge appeals, Crownhill Court, Tailyour Rd, Crownhill, Plymouth PL6 5BZ -for those of you with this prob looming. I'll let you know if that's correct.

 

 

You should complain about that. That's just unacceptable.

If they have provided an address to complain to.

[robinmasters]

The ramifications of this are potentially huge for cars imported into the UK sometime back. The fine is so large that the car can never really go back on the road, legally, unless its re-exported first!

 

So ,all those imported for restoration could well be in for a substantial bill (fine) when they come to legalise!

 

A dishonest person might be tempted to restore a car, then import a second (in a similar condition to those borked early Escorts which regularly sell for silly money) and accidentally* mix up the chassis numbers. 

[dugong]

Why was this put in place?

Sounds like it's only purpose is to put an extreme inconvenience on anyone doing it, and therefore resulting in a fine.

Are these meetings conducting while on drugs?

All about the money, my friend.

[panhard65]

I don't know why but I think the address was in Dover. I will have to go through all my paperwork. I am sure I have read something about exemption for cars imported before NOVA as well probably in the latest version of import pack. The best way round it is to lie about the date as they aren't checking when anything comes in and aren't asking for any proof like a ferry ticket. It really needs advertising more so no one else gets caught out. As usual it is the law abiding types that get in trouble and all the dodgy ones get away with it by not registering. I wonder what will happen with that moskovitch that's for sale at the anglia car auctions. It has been here a while I expect and no paperwork to register it so what would you put on the forms if you don't know when it entered the uk

[Minimad5]

How the hell will this work with me and the Herald !?
had it a "small amount of time" now, so will i get a HUGE fine.
Or do i simply state that it has only just arrived in the UK ? ..... This may end up in the bin - fawk :/

[outlaw118]

Mark, the Harold came from the Channel Islands didn't it?

 

Shouldn't make a difference, it's UK innit?

[Vin]

I was reading this thread and getting a little worried...my van has been in the UK since 2004 and I'm still not ready to register it yet...

 

So reading this pdf document here...

 

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD1_032698

 

"...A NOVA notification is not required for: Vehicles which are registered with Isle of Man plates..."

 

This means I AM OK.

[Micrashed]

 

 

You must make your notification within 14 days of the date of arrival or when the vehicles are put into free circulation

 

Now my interpretation of the last bit is when the car is tested and put on the road. Of course I may be hideously wrong-  but it could be worth arguing the point.

[FredTransit]

so theres a paper NOVA, an online NOVA, is there a super NOVA? Whats it stand for? Could be a nice little service taking none UK cars over the channel, selling them at the dockside and re importing them!

[FredTransit]

found this

 

www.nidirect.gov.uk/notifying-hm-revenue-and-customs-before-you-can-register-an-imported-vehicle

 

If you are a private

individual or non VAT

registered business

importing from outside

the EU.

 

You won’t be required to notify

HMRC using NOVA online or by

completing form VAT NOVA1.

However, there are certain

Customs forms that you will have

to fill in before you can register

your vehicle with the DVA.

so thats nice and clear then! Oh and no mention of a fine if you dont!

[barefoot]

It definately tells you about the fine on this page.

 

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/imports/nova.htm