What goes wrong on modern French diesels?

[wuvvum]

What about a Vel Satis with the Isuzu 6-pot dizzler engine? They're not the most economical diesel but from what I've heard they're more reliable than most French diesel motors.

 

Aren't they a Nissan engine rather than Isuzu?  They do have their fair share of problems as well though iirc - my memory is saying that they have problems with the cylinder liners, although that could be bollocks as I'm quite tired.

[wuvvum]

 

I never thought a 307SW would be a heavy car until I asked 90bhp to move it. 

 

I remember looking on the MoT brake test weight chart and being astonished at how heavy the 307 and 308 wagons actually are - if memory serves, the glass roof 307 was around a tonne and three quarters.

[Pillock]

Yeah it was a glass roof. So I'm assuming all the extra strengthening of a floppytop without the saving grace of a fabric roof. It really was dreadful.

[brickwall]

Prices of particle filters can be frightening....

[chaseracer]

I find the 2.0 HDi 90 works well in a Blingo Multispazz, which is in essence a tin box with windows, carrying air. And my fat arse.

[dugong]

Station -

 

Come and drive my C4.

 

That'll put you off this wack talk of a new-ish French diesel.

[wackywacerwill]

I just want something bargey and floaty with no aspirations to have 'racing heritage' or pedigree or any of that nonsense.

Granada, Full stop.

[Junkman]

Granada, Full stop.

No, man. Rover P6. It's cheaper.

 

And to respond to the OP, the only newfangled French Diesel worth buying is a Renault 16 TX. However, it's neither a Diesel, nor newfangled. It's a car.

[Micrashed]

 I just want something bargey and floaty

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-CITROEN-C8-EXCLUSIVE-CC-HDI-16V-BLUE-/221339647681?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3388defec1

 

 

Weapons grade SHITE.

 

Barge - Check

Diesel - Check ( ours does 39 - 45 mpg)

Floaty - Check (its like driving round in your living room)

Handles - Check (switch off ABS and ASC and its mental in the bends)

Cheap - Check - the above one can probably be had for a bag

Thrilling - Dingalingaling - will it grenade? Will it go into limp mode? Will some weird fucking CANBUS fault make all the lights shit themselves in the Wallasey tunnel during a power cut? Check!

[rml2345]

C6s are beginning to look properly tempting... At least when it explodes or decides it would rather be a fruit machine or something you can put it in your sitting room and enjoy looking at it.

This would also work for the Vel Satis.

I'd be going for an XM or something if I wanted it to do car stuff for more than 20 minutes though.

[spike60]

About 4 or 5 years ago friend of asked advice about a diesel C5 Citroen he owned as I'm a diesel tech by trade, it was starting to use coolant. The book time to change to the head gasket was about 18 hours IIRC, that is with an expert who has done job before, all tools to hand etc. This is a not very big engine in a big car, how can it be awkward? Because the engine and box had to come out together on the subframe before the head came off. The car was a 53 plate putting it about 6-7 years old at the time, it was scrapped for a HG.

[skattrd]

Not even vaguely French, but I did rate my old Volvo S80 as a diesel barge and would definitely have another. That said, I would likely look at the slightly smaller S60 first.

[Rusty Pelican]

About 4 or 5 years ago friend of asked advice about a diesel C5 Citroen he owned as I'm a diesel tech by trade, it was starting to use coolant. The book time to change to the head gasket was about 18 hours IIRC, that is with an expert who has done job before, all tools to hand etc. This is a not very big engine in a big car, how can it be awkward? Because the engine and box had to come out together on the subframe before the head came off. The car was a 53 plate putting it about 6-7 years old at the time, it was scrapped for a HG.

Thats just fucking nuts , why design a car like that , i recon manufacturers should be forced to at least design a car you can change a headlight bulb in on the side of the road and not have to remove the bumper / wheels / roof / engine .

[meggersdog]

Changing a bulb through a hole in the inner wing you need fingers like an Aye aye lemur.

 

The turbo XUD's were like that C5.The engine slants back towards the bulkhead and when trying to remove the head the turbo/manifold caught on the bulkhead.Only ever done a ZX and a 306 and both times it was just as easy to remove the engine and 'box before removing the head.I would imagine a Xantia TD would be almost as involved as a C5.

[chaseracer]

The Granada does have a 'racing heritage' of sorts, but we do not speak of such things here...

 

 

[Albert Ross]

Headlight bulb change at the side of the road? 1-2 minutes. French engine? Yup, check. Autobox? Well, a 6 speed twin wet clutch manual....... Check. Built in a French speaking country? Yup. What is it? My "new" to me Volvo V50 SE Lux. Yes, it has a unique gearbox (designed for Mitsubishi Outlander/Citroen C-Crosser/Peugeot 4007.....) Using a 136 brake variable Turbo 2 litre Hdi... it works well, returns good economy, sits well on the road, (has a "presence" that I never noticed before... It's a dark metallic colour, and I think certain groups of people think it's plain clothes Constabulary ...? No??) Built on a Focus floor pan, so suspension parts are well sorted and cheap/available if necessary, not a complex item that needs specialist tools and massive repair bills. I believe the same drivetrain is available in the S60... look for "Powershift" on the pre-2010 models, with the 2.0D (NOT Geartronic or D3/4/5.... they have their own share of difficulties since the range got rationalised)  I took an expensive plunge into moderns, this will be getting paid for over 5 years, so no small commitment on my part. I believed in the hype, and got something better thought about than Citroen.

[R9UKE]

Aren't they a Nissan engine rather than Isuzu?  They do have their fair share of problems as well though iirc - my memory is saying that they have problems with the cylinder liners, although that could be bollocks as I'm quite tired.

Nope, the 3.0 dV6 is Isuzu, you're thinking of the 3.5 V6 Petrol - it's Nissan.

 

But you're right on the second point. The 3.0 dV6 Vel Satis is having overheating issues more and more commonly because of that and shagged head gaskets. In saying that, they're FAR better than Renaults 2.2 dCi and do 45 mpg on the motorway with ease.

[Twiggy]

Station - have you considered the Rover 75 with the BMW diesel ? Comes in saloon and estate varieties, manual or automatic, pretty rust resistant and well supported by what seems to be a good owners` club. Reputedly amazingly economical in the diesel form too. Just not amazingly large though, but pretty cheap.

[Talbot]

The turbo XUD's were like that C5.The engine slants back towards the bulkhead and when trying to remove the head the turbo/manifold caught on the bulkhead.Only ever done a ZX and a 306 and both times it was just as easy to remove the engine and 'box before removing the head.I would imagine a Xantia TD would be almost as involved as a C5.

oh what tosh.

 

I've done turbo XUD heads on BX, Xantia, 205, 306, 309, 405, 406, C15, C25 and one in a lada Niva.  All of them were fairly easy if you know where everything is and have the tools to hand.

 

The C5 needing the engine and box dropped on the subframe is a load of old waffle too.  There is a way to move the engine forwards to get the head off, although it's not the "official" way. (I've never done that though).

 

Should you buy a modern French Turbo-wiesel?  probably not.  Personally I'd wait until the model is at least 10 years old, as at that point other people's wallets have discovered where the French engineers attempted to save too much money.

 

Example:  Even the Venerable XUD isn't as bullet proof as many would have you believe.  Many HG failures at 100-120k miles, and there was the issue of engines assembled with non-turbo rods in Turbo engines, meaning the rod would make a break for freedom, usually through the block casting.  The near-free Xsara TD I'm currenly punting about in has a 405 TD block in it for exactly that reason!

[Talbot]

I just want something bargey and floaty with no aspirations to have 'racing heritage' or pedigree or any of that nonsense.

 

The most electronics in one of these is in the radio, which is how it should be.  Uber-reliable M-series Diesel engine (pushrods, Indirect injection with mechanical pump etc, and that fabulous dash.

 

Plus, how fantastic does a CX look?

[dieselnutjob]

The particulate filters are to MOT testable from Feb 2014 with removal of a standard fitted one a fail. I don't know the details of policing it tho.

 

To my utter amazement, this appears to be true https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

 

this means that my 607, which is an X reg, will require the DPF to pass the MOT when no other car on the road of that age will need one 

 

Oh well, I can easily arrange for the particulate filter to be physically present at MOT time, well the outside casing of it anyway.

[HMC]

When I saw this thread go up a coulple of days back, I fully expected it to get this big this soon.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I ran an 04 1.9DCi Laguna for 6 months. Was reliable, did 38-40 mpg average and pleasant to drive. Liked it.

[Micrashed]

To my utter amazement, this appears to be true https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

 

this means that my 607, which is an X reg, will require the DPF to pass the MOT when no other car on the road of that age will need one 

 

Oh well, I can easily arrange for the particulate filter to be physically present at MOT time, well the outside casing of it anyway.

Did it have one when it was new? If not - happy days, you dont need one.

[Richard]

It did.

[rainagain]

this:

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/14907-dci-engine-swap/?do=findComment&comment=468945

 

[Micrashed]

It did.

Then this indeed is a bit of an arse.

However Im given to believe it is a visual inspection only - so so long as the outer case and pipework is there (even if it is full of Haribo's and wind) it should pass if the smoke test is OK.

[meggersdog]

oh what tosh.

 

I found it just as easy to take the engine and 'box out.Atleast with the engine on stable ground there isn't the risk of it falling off the wooden props whilst wriggling the head off (trapping your fingers between the inner wing and engine in the process).Yes you have to remove the engine mounts and drag it forward to clear.Unless you have some sort of craddle attached to a trolley jack it usually involves blocks of wood.An extra hour on the total job was my preference.Not tosh just my personal choice.

[jonathan_dyane]

I'm put off now - also agree with boycotting anything with ridiculous designs like the non-dipstick sealed for life gearboxes. Sealed until they blow and a new one is purchased.

I'm going to end up with a 405 or 406 with an XUD or an XM. I just want something bargey and floaty with no aspirations to have 'racing heritage' or pedigree or any of that nonsense.

 

I'm going to be flogging my Volvo 850 TDI auto in a couple of months if thats any use? Bargey, floatyish, potentially reliably VAG 5 cylinder TDI and well sub £1000...

[dieselnutjob]

I love the noise the 5 cyl makes