What goes wrong on modern French diesels?

[Station]

Looking to get a newish car in March - I was looking briefly at a Vel Satis or a C6 (as examples to my query).

I've read horror stories about French/diesel/automatic and don't want to go there if there are any possibilities I'll end up having to blow more money on fixing a car?

 

Here's a nice picture anyway:

 

[cort16]

everything

[Cavcraft]

What Glenn said and quite a bit more.

[spike60]

While I don't like French cars is seems a bit unfair to single them out as unreliable, most modernish diesels seem to be a pain in the arse.

[Rusty_Rocket]

The French went from making the most reliable/ capable diesel engines in the world to some of the flakiest common-rail tat available.  Actually, that's not quite fair.. the HDi is no worse than any other modern diesel imo.

With this in mind, they then made them worse still with the addition of DPF/FAP/DMF/TVD/COC/NOB/JIZ.

 

I'd imagine the autoboxes are still crappy, but I have no personal experience of these on the current Frenchies.

 

To summarise, I'd say they're cheaper to repair than the equivalent VAG nonsense but you'll still need the gold level RAC cover and the safety net of a £400 1980s/90s vehicle for those days when you actually want to get somewhere.

 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

don't want to go there if there are any possibilities I'll end up having to blow more money on fixing a car?

 

 

Forget it!

[wuvvum]

What they all said.  Don't.  Just don't.

[michael1703]

Define newish*

 

Depending what it owed you and that it has had it's depreciation hit,you could take a gamble

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

 

 

Stop thinking about reliability, look how gorgeous this car is. Go and buy one. Much better to have a broken C6 on your drive than a reliable Toyota. 

[spike60]

Newish to me is anything with acronyms with it, DPF, DMF etc, They seem to provide economy at a cost of high repairs.

[dieselnutjob]

The early C6 has a ZF automatic gearbox which is the same as my 607 and was also fitted to BMWs and Landrovers I believe.  It's the ZF 4HP20.

 

These gearboxes are actually pretty tough but have no dipstick so checking the level is a little involved, and you can only put a very specific Esso or Mobil  LT 71141 oil in them.

 

I don't know what the later ones had but I haven't heard any horrow stories.

 

The problems with French automatics are the smaller models that have the AL4 transmission which is crap.

 

The 2.2 HDIs won a reputation for snapping cam belts, but again not on the C6.  The problem appears to be with the C8 / 807 because rain drops on the engine and gets inside the timing belt cover.  It corrodes components and can even freeze in there causing timing belt problems.  The second problem is that the injectors seize into the head making it impossible to remove the heard to fix it.  I dribble a bit of oil only the outside of each injector every now and again just in case, I'm not sure if it will help.  Anyway this problem doesn't seem to affect the cars.

 

The 2.2 also has problems with particulate filters blocking up but they can be simply removed and the engine ECU reflashed to match.

 

The V6 HDI is a fantastic thing to drive but will only give 28-30mpg on an auto transmission.  I don't know much about their reliability.

 

The C6 has lots of electronics though and you need a diagnostic tool to change the rear pads.

[Station]

^ That defines newish to me as well. Anything 2004 - 2009, anything beyond that is too much money, still within the losing a lot of money bracket.

I've done 3,000 miles in both my Justy and my Nippa as well going to and from work every week. I noticed a massive difference driving my Impreza, and even better in my Volvo (what with it being auto). Could never go back to the long distance shite driver, they're quirky, but 400 miles in one every week is bad!

[Pillock]

All the bits that make stuff go either up and down, or round and round.

 

I know they're often cheap, but just don't - any cost saving will be lost the first time it throws up a French error message on the dot matrix display and demands to be taken to a dealer. 

[cort16]

I'd have a vel satis but only because you can get them for about a grand so any potential loss would be limited. The c6 is a bit more scary as they cost more so the potential for disaster is greater.

[spike60]

The particulate filters are to MOT testable from Feb 2014 with removal of a standard fitted one a fail. I don't know the details of policing it tho.

[Jim Bergerac]

I really want a C6. That said, I imagine the fulfillment of these desires will culminate in me being bankrupt and crying whilst in the foetal position.

[cort16]

I really want a C6. That said, I imagine the fulfillment of these desires will culminate in me being bankrupt and crying whilst in the foetal position.

I think the correct position for crying is on page 96 of the c6 instruction manual.

[spike60]

I'm always in favour of going tor something if you really want it, just be aware it may result in you living in a skip!

[Negative Creep]

I really want a C6. That said, I imagine the fulfillment of these desires will culminate in me being bankrupt and crying whilst in the foetal position.

 

 

Same here. Maybe I should wait until they're £00 so I can get a week or so driving it around before the doors fall off

[Mr Lobster]

Even I as a committed French car fan would avoid any French diesels built between about '02 -'08. Had a 1.5 decide Kangoo which was ace when it worked but just didn't spend enough time working. That said, I'd still have another if I knew someone else had spent on replacing everything that's likely to break.

[Micrashed]

If you are going for a HDi buy the 2.0 90BHP version - that is as close as you can get to the XUD reliability.

 

After that they get a bit shit.

 

The 110BHP and upwards have the wonderful ELOYS fluid if you get one with a FAP (DPF). and the FAP fucks up too leading to much hilarity* of "limp home mode".

.

They dual mass flywheel can destruct without warning and take various other bits of the donkey with it.

 

136BHP variants with the twin cam have a habit of rusting the injectors into the head which writes it off if you ever have a cam belt go as the injectors cant be got out. The ones in the C8 also grenade the cam belt at 50K miles - but that is peculiar to the C8.

 

Electrics fuck up

 

EGR valves fuck up with alarming regularity leading to comedy* moments where the car runs like a lumpy bowl of porridge.

 

That said, they are lovely cars. I like mine a lot.

[tooSavvy]

I'm always in favour of going for something if you really want it, just be aware it may result in you driving in a skip!

 

..... alternatively >> 

 

I LOVE MY SAVVY

 

TS

[warren t claim]

Plenty of Pug HDi's running happily in taxis with a quarter million on the clock. As long as you thrash it now and again you'll be fine. 

[warren t claim]

Buy this! Low mileage and you managed to get 50mpg out of my 406 petrol driving to work.

 

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/peugeot-406-20-coupe-1997-low-mileage-47771-reluctant-sale/1043013635

 

[TagoraSX]

We have 3 Pug 307 HDI vans from new at work, '05 '06 and '07, a 2.0 and two 1.6's. All three have been eminently reliable, nothing has gone bang and only been at the dealers for servicing.

[Junkman]

These gearboxes are actually pretty tough but have no dipstick so checking the level is a little involved, and you can only put a very specific Esso or Mobil  LT 71141 oil in them.

This is exactly the kind of stuff why the car industry has lost me forever.

I am certainly not going to buy an automatic that doesn't have a dipstick and needs specific fluid.

To the contrary, I say they should make absolutely sure it stays where it is currently located and plead everyone to not just avoid rubbish like this, but boycott it.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I should have learnt when my 05 DCi Grand Espace shat itself terminally at 60,000 miles, but today I found myself looking at C6's on Autotrader even though I wouldn't buy my wife a Disco 3 because the engines are shit and likely to need turbos at 120,000 miles , oh and the cam belt tensioners are made of monkey metal or something. But when the alternative is something as individual as another black E Class or A6, it makes the gamble look worthwhile.

[skattrd]

What about a Vel Satis with the Isuzu 6-pot dizzler engine? They're not the most economical diesel but from what I've heard they're more reliable than most French diesel motors.

[Pillock]

If you are going for a HDi buy the 2.0 90BHP version - that is as close as you can get to the XUD reliability.

 

 

Very few failures reported on those, since they're so mind-bogglingly underpowered in a modern car owners will either fall into a coma or drive it off Beachy Head to try to build some speed up.

 

I never thought a 307SW would be a heavy car until I asked 90bhp to move it. 

[Station]

I'm put off now - also agree with boycotting anything with ridiculous designs like the non-dipstick sealed for life gearboxes. Sealed until they blow and a new one is purchased.

I'm going to end up with a 405 or 406 with an XUD or an XM. I just want something bargey and floaty with no aspirations to have 'racing heritage' or pedigree or any of that nonsense.