Dwindling numbers...

[Bren]

I received my Rover SD1 club magazine today - part of it made for some suprising reading.

 

The club have around 400 members (when I joined in 1997 it well over 1000), the club believe that only around 500 cars are on the road.

 

That may seem a lot for an obsolete, (still) unfashionable 80's luxury car, but not when you consider over 300,000 of them were built between 76-86.

 

It makes you wonder if the day will come when there are none left, especially if prices fail to rise for them - the P5/6 has a stronger following and is more sought after.

 

I bet there are many more MK2 Granada's left (until the banger lads kill them off)than SD1's, I wonder how many MK1 Granada's are left? Probably less than 500 I bet.

[vulgalour]

 

[Junkman]

I received my Rover SD1 club magazine today - part of it made for some suprising reading.

 

The club have around 400 members (when I joined in 1997 it well over 1000), the club believe that only around 500 cars are on the road.

 

That may seem a lot for an obsolete, (still) unfashionable 80's luxury car, but not when you consider over 300,000 of them were built between 76-86.

Despite some dico-age saloons acquired cult status by now, they aren't on the radar of the mainstream car collectors. For ROI and collectibility, there is an abundance of more attractive offerings and only few collectors consider saloons collectible at all. Even 70s and 80s luxo-barges are still largely unloved and will forever live in the shadows of their more flashy convertible and coupe brethren. If they happen to share the oily bits with their more flashy siblings, they are mainly reduced to parts donor status.

 

It makes you wonder if the day will come when there are none left, especially if prices fail to rise for them - the P5/6 has a stronger following and is more sought after.

The P5/6es are just ever so slightly starting to get a following now and in reality the number of cars left is still on the decline. They aren't sought after at all, there are just a few geeks starting to cherish them now, probably the ca. 400 hard core lunatics that are still left in the respective clubs, after the hundreds of ex-members, that hitherto saw the cars merely as cheap transport, and the club as a cheap resource for keeping them on the road, finally have moved on. This is probably just happening in the SD1 club now and it is a good thing.

 

 

I bet there are many more MK2 Granada's left (until the banger lads kill them off) than SD1's, I wonder how many MK1 Granada's are left? Probably less than 500 I bet.

I seriously doubt that there are more than a few hundred MKII Granadas left on the road. OK, I don't have exact figures, but my gut feeling usually isn't bad. The impact of being prime fodder for the banger racers for 30 years can not and should not be underestimated.

 

But there will never be any saloon car that survives in bigger numbers eventually. A few hundred is usually all that's left after a while. Often less.

This has a huge advantage for the collectors outside the mainstream - the cars will always be relatively affordable.

[brickwall]

It seems that's the way. There seems to be falls in numbers then plateaus in numbers before another fall. My mums company car, a MKII Granada, was scrapped after 4 years of use.

[Cheggers]

 

OK, I give up...

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[minolman]

The decline and fall of several marques took me by surprise when I started looking into it in the wake of chats with mates about old 70s and 80s autoshite. Its bloody amazing how few survivors there are of some. I first looked at the Skoda Favorit because I had let one go for parts and sold my other one. At their peak of registrations there was over 50,000, not huge numbers but Skoda's market share was very small, around 2% and probably even behind Lada. When I looked at how many left at the beginning of 2010 there was over 1600 left licensed. In only 3 years the figures are 1000 less, with latest stats showing 568 on the road. That's just over 1% survival. 

 

The Skoda Felicia is still showing 16,000 on the road, but 5 years ago there was 52,000 - more than the peak of Favorits.

 

For those lovers of things like the Morris Minor and MGB I have an interesting statistic. There are more MGB's on SORN than there is Morris Minors LICENSED on the road! Yep there is 15,000 on the road Moggies and 5,000 SORN [and remember this is a car that sold over 1 million units] but an incredible 21,000 MGBs on the road and 11,000 on SORN. 

 

Of all the combined various models of Ford Granada there is a total of just over 2,100 on the road with 2,500 on SORN. However, only 5 years ago in 2008 the figures were double. 

 

The Peugeot 205 is a fast dwindler, still plenty around at 10,600 on the road, but 5 years ago there was 44,000!

 

Quite a bit of fun can be had with How Many Left search engine. Of course it doesn't show cars off the road since before SORN came in.

cheers

M

[brickwall]

Some good points there

[Grundig]

 

 

 

OK, I give up...

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

... me too, but I've had a few beers today 

[barefoot]

I read somewhere, I may have been drunk, that only 500 Audi 200T C2, ever made it to the UK.

This is frightening since I have owned 3 of the thirsty, unreliable, but idiotically quick bastards.

Scrapped two and sold one.

In nearly five years, these cars nearly bankrupted me.

And I knew another bloke who owned one.

That's almost one per cent of the total uk stock.

This can't be right.

[Negative Creep]

I always thought it odd that the SD1 doens't attract more scene tax. It's a stunning looking V8 RWD car, so what's not to like?

[vulgalour]

It's a tree man and an E made of Rope.  Ent Rope E.  Entropy.  Sorry, if I drank more I wouldn't make these TERRIBLE attempts to be witty.

[Junkman]

It's a tree man and an E made of Rope.  Ent Rope E.  Entropy.  Sorry, if I drank more I wouldn't make these TERRIBLE attempts to be witty.

Never mind the drink, it's off the crack you must go!

 

 

The Peugeot 205 is a fast dwindler, still plenty around at 10,600 on the road, but 5 years ago there was 44,000!

An even faster dwindler is the 405. Unbelievable.

But I think that the record dwindler of all times is the Sierra. It seemingly went from everywhere to nowhere within a year or two.

[dugong]

Despite this, a very rare car of mine will shortly be binned.

 

It's alright, I have a tin hat to protect me from the self-righteous indignation that will result.

[minolman]

Does the SD1 suffer from the syndrome amongst Rover enthusiasts as being not quite a 'proper' Rover? After all we're talking the kind of people who were hardcore Rover types at the time owned the likes of P4 and P5's. They're the Rover Drivers Guild don't you know, not low enough to be called a club I know someone who owned a gorgeous and very early P6, so early it had a four numbers and two letters plate and he was looked down on by other Rover owners cos that wasn't a 'proper' Rover LoL. By the same token the SD1 must suffer from that? I know it has fans of its own, heck there is a chap near here who used to have 3 or 4, and at least one in daily use, but maybe just not enough. Shame though. 

[minolman]

Despite this, a very rare car of mine will shortly be binned.

 

It's alright, I have a tin hat to protect me from the self-righteous indignation that will result.

 

Sometimes it just cannot be helped though. Depending on age, in the 'classic car' world some brands just are not worth keeping going, the bargain has gone below the basement so to speak. When my Skoda Estelle was pranged into the back of the insurance attitude was more or less its worth bugger all, just a rusty 3rd hand junker. In actual fact, to me it was a two owner rarity, never been messed with 34,000 low mileage gem. But to a classic insurance assessor looking at proffessional fees to repair it wasn't worth it. The cost of a decent respray alone!

[Junkman]

Does the SD1 suffer from the syndrome amongst Rover enthusiasts as being not quite a 'proper' Rover?

At the last Trafford show, we (that's the Rover P6 club, not the P6 owners club!) had our stand back to back with the SD1 club. I could not observe any mutual resentments whatsoever. Cars were admired and V8 and gearbox woes discussed.

However, if one of the two should have a reason to be distemptered, I suggest it's the SD1 club, because P6ers have been caught raping the odd SD1 for engines and 5-speed boxes.

 

However, there is now a tendency by both of those clubs to pluck unfinished kit cars for their oily bits, which is hardly viewed as some kind of raping, more like fucking inflatable dolls. I'm looking forward to the day when the latter will be endued with some kind of rights. It won't take long.

[CortinaDave]

Mk3 , 4 and 5 cortinas are still being mercilessly broken, raced and scrapped and the numbers go down quite dramatically every year .

 

They are often worth more in parts so there are plenty dismantled in the pursuit of pound notes, then there's the kit car fraternity and banger racers all of whom love to smash em up.

 

What can you do though - that's life! It's amazing that something like 4 million cortinas were built, and in 30 years all are gone bar a couple of thousand in total.

 

Mk4s are down below 200 on the road apparently

[Junkman]

I always thought it odd that the SD1 doens't attract more scene tax. It's a stunning looking V8 RWD car, so what's not to like?

It's British made. In Britain, that's more than enough reason to condemn it.

[Lord Sterling]

I think what many people are forgetting is that not all SD1s/Mk2 Granadas etc... are all owned by enthusiasts. I'm sure there is a lot more roadworthy/roadgoing SD1s still around than the 500 number quoted. At shows there seems to be a plethora of them. Also, as an outside thought, not forgetting that there many, many more of these rare cars still doing the rounds in different countries.

[In The Pit]

I think we've all done it, felt sad about the rapid decline and almost overnight disappearance from Britain’s roads of a particular car that we once owned, drove or loved (probably all three) it can bring on a number of emotions sadness, anger, fear, and according to this thread suicide.  However I have a cure to this pain a scratch to this itch, simply think about some modern car that you hate and realise that as time passes this too will befall that vehicle,  think Bini/Nissan Juke, better?

[Junkman]

I think what many people are forgetting is that not all SD1s/Mk2 Granadas etc... are all owned by enthusiasts. I'm sure there is a lot more roadworthy/roadgoing SD1s still around than the 500 number quoted. At shows there seems to be a plethora of them. Also, as an outside thought, not forgetting that there many, many more of these rare cars still doing the rounds in different countries.

 

Abroad is a different story altogether.

Any surviving SD1 is considered a coveted classic in Austria, for example. So is any Granada MKII while we are at it.

A V8 SD1 in good nick is a 20k€ car in .at and I've seen good MKII 2.8i's sell for five figures, too.

[oman5]

The sd1 is not a drive and forget car. if you use it regularly it will disintegrate around you, whether bodywork,interior or electrics. labour intensive to keep in good nick hence the lack of good ones outside the realm of die hard enthusiasts.

[Squire_Dawson]

I believe it is a simple case of supply and demand - the former exceeds the latter. A car is bought new, somebody might keep it from new until it wears out, others might change it 2 years later for a new one. At this age, anything up to 15 years old, the car is simply transport for people and when it wears out it is ordinarily scrapped. There may be some early-on enthusiasts who run a few when numbers are still plentiful, but these cars too are often scrapped once worn out/pointless to repair.

 

If a car is fortunate enough to reach an age when people start taking an interest in them as classics, then the chance of survival is better.

 

I take any information from 'howmanyleft' with a large pinch of salt.

[Lord Sterling]

Its also true to say that you get your 'fair weather' enthusiasts; those who buy these cars to be a part of the scene, those who already have the car but dont see the value and those who simply want to make a quick couple of quid out of them. These are the people who will scrap/break a perfectly good running example because it needs a few hours of work and a couple of hundred spending on one, so its often deemed "not worth it".

[Negative Creep]

I think we've all done it, felt sad about the rapid decline and almost overnight disappearance from Britain’s roads of a particular car that we once owned, drove or loved (probably all three) it can bring on a number of emotions sadness, anger, fear, and according to this thread suicide.  However I have a cure to this pain a scratch to this itch, simply think about some modern car that you hate and realise that as time passes this too will befall that vehicle,  think Bini/Nissan Juke, better?

 

 

I don't think I'll ever feel this way about the Corsa, Laguna, Vectra etc

[minolman]

I take any information from 'howmanyleft' with a large pinch of salt.

Why is this?

The information is taken directly from statistics of the DVLA, for each model as printed on the Log Book, stating how many each quarter were officially licensed. It is only where the original party who registered the vehicle did not correctly record the make and model that a vehicle is harder to trace. Vehicles off the road before it was officially required to declare SORN are of course a grey area. [as I mentioned]

 

I reckon the statistics as they are, are quite a good indication of survivors. There may be some rare models of car makes in museums that have never, and will never turn a wheel. Nor will they be available for sale to some enthusiast that would put them on the road and drive them. With something incredibly rare where maybe only 20 were made and only 2 are in private hands it may look like only 10% survive where maybe another 14 are in museums, so the stats can be skewed. Application of common sense and realism in looking at the data is key.

 

Within the Yugo and Zastava club its known these vehicles on the road have dwindled to handfuls of each model only left. That said I know of at least 5 or 6 that have come out of the woodwork in the last year. Since these are not so well loved the interest in saving them is probably lower than say when a 2 door Escort Mk2 comes out of an old garage

 

A glance at the stats for the MGB clearly shows a big number must be SORNed in the winter, as the figures vary widely for different quarters of the year. 

[chris1991]

Not in the same league but I have noticed Nissan Sunny numbers dramatically dropping according to howmanyleft.co.uk. The number left of the Nissan Sunny Sequel a 1995 special has halved in under 2 years. 

[Justin Case]

Isn't nostalgia a big thing with old cars? Back in the 50s a Hillman Minx or Morris Oxford was probably the first car that a family ever owned, and the desire to recapture a lost youth of spending six hours stuck to a hot vinyl seat on the way to a week at Butlin's meant that quite a few survived. Then in the 60s and 70s young folk got the novelty of the freedom to go wherever that wanted in old basic Minis and Escorts, but still could pretend to be Paddy Hopkirk or Roger Clark.

 

But then it all went downhill. Apologies to the Rover owners, but when new the P6s and SD1s had become no more than corporate status symbols (like a 5 series today) and then rapidly went down the food chain so that most people around in the 80s remember them as rather sorry specimens more often on axle stands than the road.

 

As for Cortinas, the Mk 1 had the Lotus, Mk 2 the 1600E, Mark 3 the styling, but Mark 4? No-one ever saw the life of a photocopier rep as exciting, so they never stood a chance of surviving (the Cortinas that is ) The hot hatch had taken over and they are the only ones from the late 70s/80s that most folk remember.

 

Running an old car isn't rational, but it needs to be fun in some way or other. If it doesn't deliver then it's doomed. Harsh, but that's the way of the world.

 

Alfisti - social historian to the world of Shite.

[Pete-M]

Despite this, a very rare car of mine will shortly be binned.

 

It's alright, I have a tin hat to protect me from the self-righteous indignation that will result.

There won't be much indignation. It's a Gs. Can't be more than 20 people in the country that want to actually own one of those. There are probably 50 folk on t'interwebs who say they'd love one but nobody who'd hand over actual money in exchange for a resto project.

 

Shame, but they ain't loved.

[Pillock]

Why is this?

The information is taken directly from statistics of the DVLA, for each model as printed on the Log Book, stating how many each quarter were officially licensed.

 

Because the DVLA are a little haphazard at what they register cars as, especially ones that are low volume to start with. My Audi 90 Quattro Sport 20v for example omitted the "90" and the "20v" from the V5 so it won't show up on howmanyleft.... Not a problem on a Vectra LS but there were only 250 of those to start with and I've not seen one in a while for sale.