Project 40+ tonnes of Boatshite - engineshite update 9/5/20

[UltraWomble]

Is there anything you can do to stop that from happening?

[coalnotdole]

Hopefully the new flue will last a lot better as I'm using stainless steel rather than mild steel like the previous one.

Also hoping that the soot trap at the bottom of the funnel will mean its easier to keep clean, therefore it should burn more efficiently and produce less shit in the flue anyway. Also I've done away with quite a few bends compared to my previous attempt - I'll lay out the old bits on the floor for a photo to show just how many bends and horizontal sections there were before i skip it all.

[coalnotdole]

As promised here is a photo showing the old sections I've removed so far laid out in there correct orientation, the long vertical section ends up inside the funnel:

 

 

 

 

Compare that to the new stainless version which does away with the two 90 degree bends on the left and instead has just the one 45 degree bend:

 

 

 

There's another horizontal section in enamelled steel flue sections that goes from the other side of the bulkhead along under the wheelhouse floor then through a 45 degree bend to kick it across towards centre of the boat and down to the top of the stove through another two 45 degree bends arranged to make a 90 which I haven't removed yet, the plan will be again to replace all that with one 45 degree bend coming out of the top of the stove and a length of the polylok flexible tubing.

 

Its all a very non-ideal arrangement but is how its been since the boat was built. whatever you do theres a significant horizontal run and it has to avoid the wheelhouse and the lube oil tank in the engine room so bends are unavoidable.

 

Dave

[drivewaymyway]

Boaty McShiteface, bloody brilliant thread !!!! Thanks for sharing..

[Minimad5]

Spot on work squire.

[Shirley Knott]

I've been off work with flu today, Im not ashamed to say I've worked my way through the whole thread and wowzers, what a read!

 

The bad news is I now want a boat *Patiently waits for roffle to commence*

[coalnotdole]

Boaty McShiteface, bloody brilliant thread !!!! Thanks for sharing..

 

 

Spot on work squire.

 

Cheers Fellas, I'm never really sure what to post / how much detail to go into. Photos of a stove flue aren't exactly the most exciting thing to look at! But I find it quite reassuring when I'm feeling down/underachieving to be able to look back through the thread and see that progress has been made somewhere even if its not something major!

 

 

I've been off work with flu today, Im not ashamed to say I've worked my way through the whole thread and wowzers, what a read!

 

The bad news is I now want a boat *Patiently waits for roffle to commence*

Glad its provided some entertainment! Although surely if theres one lesson to be learnt from this thread its that buying a large boat is a bad idea unless you have 10+ years to dedicate all your spare time and money to!

 

Cheers

Dave

[UltraWomble]

 

 Cheers Fellas, I'm never really sure what to post / how much detail to go into. Photos of a stove flue aren't exactly the most exciting thing to look at! But I find it quite reassuring when I'm feeling down/underachieving to be able to look back through the thread and see that progress has been made somewhere even if its not something major!

 

 

There are some quality threads on AS, the Sentinel thread, this , the Scimitar, the Rebel thread, the Granny Coupe rebuild are frankly amongst the top, if not the top - the detail, commitment and problem solving skills combined with fabrication skills and attention to detail are what rank these so highly.

 

Presented with even a fraction of the problems you have sorted out most of us would either throw in the towel and turn it into a Viking funeral pyre boat or bodge it with a bit of ply wood and some expanding foam. Your attention to detail not only does you proud but will ensure that the boat lives on for many many years to come.

[DeeJay]

^^^^What he said^^^^

[mat_the_cat]

Couldn't have put it any better.

 

I think a lot of us are on that part of the spectrum where the details are everything, so the more the better. So long as it doesn't drag you away from actually carrying out the work too much!

[62 Austin]

You could take it on those canals in the UK or Ireland and it would be a real speedboat by comparison.....if you could clear the bridges. 

[Tickman]

Couldn't have put it any better.

 

I think a lot of us are on that part of the spectrum where the details are everything, so the more the better. So long as it doesn't drag you away from actually carrying out the work too much!

 

This sums it up for me and looking at the V8 install in the Stella at Shitefest the details are everything

[Slartibartfast]

I agree, even though I understand about 5% of the terminology, the detail has been excellent and made this thread an absolutely cracking read. Great work and I look forward to what progress comes next.

[Bfg]

.

Great thread ..Thanks and well done the new flexi-flue looks a much better shape for the flue gases.  

 

I've just made my own boat stove ('Tiny Stove' thread) and am now just about to make its flue.  I seriously considered flexi-tubing in aluminium (as it would dissipate chimney heat into the room better) and in stainless (for its resistance to corrosion) but each of the foil types appeared too flimsy and so would probably look crap after just a short time.  I also looked at the polylok flexible tubing in stainless (which is pretty expensive but seemingly robust) and reluctantly decided against it mainly because the polylok isn't totally gas tight for inside use. The data I read said it is good for under a vehicle but the recommendation was to wrap the tube when used for flue gases inside a structure.

 

I also wanted tight bends so that was also a factor in my particular application. Consequently I've opted for aluminium 45-degree mandrel bent tubes ..which I now have to join ..and are likely to be a right pain fitting through bulkheads. But my question is ; whether you were aware of the polylok not being as tight, or whether that wasn't an issue on your vessel - because it was only being used in sealed-away non-accommodation spaces.?  Or else you feel the polylok might not be gas tight for vehicle exhaust pressures - but is in fact gas-tight for the negligible-pressure of stove gases ?

 

I hope you don't mind my asking. Thank you,

Bfg     

[coalnotdole]

In my experience of using poly-lok in other applications it always seems pretty gas tight. I wouldn't want to use it in an application where it was gas under any sort of pressure obviously.

I have bought several rolls of 1" dia fibreglass strand lagging which will get fitted if its a problem and stitch a cover up out of a roll of fireproof barrier fabric I have.

 

Until I get the stove rebuilt and fire it up with a gas meter I guess its a bit unknown!

 

Dave

[coalnotdole]

Following on from the previous post I have now got the stove flue refitted into the funnel which was a bit of a struggle single handed!

 

 

Funnel pipe re-lagged and ready to refit:

 

 

Then feeling that things were progressing well i decided to take the top off the stove to look at repairing some slight corrosion in order to use the stove this winter and look at doing a full rebuild in the summer.

Sadly as soon as i took the top off and gave it a blast with the pressure washer it became apparent there wasn't much metal left under the enamel!

 

 

 

Stove top plate:

 

 

 

 

Inside the stove after taking the top off:

 

 

 

Back when I first got the boat I stripped the stove down, shot blasted it and welded up various cracked castings on the inside as well as replacing the oven lining with stainless steel.

 

I was always aware that at some point the top plate would need replacing so have made a point of buying every Esse Doric stove that has come up for sale in the last 10 years...

 

Some have donated parts to mine such as the optional hinged hotplate cover, and then been sold on.

Those that have been the right handing to match mine (oven on the right as opposed to the seemingly more common left hand oven) I have stripped down and kept ready for the day that I needed the parts.

 

Which means I now had three options for stove fronts:

 

 

Option A, my original stove front which is sadly very corroded around the door areas meaning they don't seal very well:

 

 

 

Option B, An immaculate front from a stove which was purchased many years ago in newcastle and brought back in the suzuki carry:

 

 

 

Option C, The front from a later "improved doric" which benefits from rope seals on the doors and plastic insulated handles, the rest of this stove was fabricated from sheet steel rather than the cast iron panels used in the earlier stoves and was in very poor condition. (this stove was bought in wiltshire then brought back to the isle of wight via a detour to cornwall for a weekend) :

 

 

 

Both these spare fronts are taller than my original stove as they have the skirt to hide the legs cast as an integral part of the main panel. My stove is mounted direct onto a metal hearth/stove pan but would have been used with bolt on legs and a tin skirt in a household setting.

 

I like the rope seals on the "improved doric" but dislike the plastic handles, It also has corrosion around the cleaning door under the oven that would be hard to repair.

 

My original front is sadly corroded around the doors to the point it seems silly to re-use it.

I had hoped to mix and match fronts and doors but they actually all have slight differences (hinge pin diameters, latch positions etc)

 

I think my collection spans 1980 (black stove) to 1994 (improved doric) with my original stove being made in the mid 80's.

 

Esse / smith and wellstood appear to have gone bust several times during this period and repeatedly moved premises including a move from scotland to lancashire.

Every stove I've seen has a different makers plate and address and it seems that as time moved on casting patterns were lost or damaged and more parts were instead fabricated from steel culminating in the cream stove which apart from the front, doors and top plate has no cast iron parts at all.

 

I decided to use the black front as its in the best condition, I cut the lower skirt off and got a quote to re-enamel it in white to match my original stove.

 

 

Front trimmed down:

 

 

That picture also shows the hearth / stove pan which I made last time I rebuilt the stove, shaped like a giant baking tray it has a flatbar lip welded around the edge (its upside down in that photo) it sat on two lengths of 4" channel to space it up from the cabin floor and provide an air gap under it.

The stove was then dropped into it and I grouted some tiles into the exposed section of tray in front of the stove. It all worked well but because the stove was dropped down into the tray you couldn't get at any of the lower bolts which fix the side and rear panels to the stove base as they were hidden behind the edge of the pan.

Also any condensation or water which ended up in the stove would end up in the bottom of the tray under the stove with no way to know it was there.

 

 

So I'm cutting the front section that holds the tiles off:

 

 

 

Then flipping the rest of the tray over so that the lip around the bit the stove sits on will hang down instead of up:

 

 

 

I just need a section of flatbar to put along the step between the two then weld it all back together and modify the sections of channel it sits on. this means the tiles will drop into a recess as before (with a slight lip sticking up above the tiles to stop ash going on the floor) But the stove will be sat up above the edge so I can get to its lower bolts easily for future disassembly.

 

Cheers

Dave

[coalnotdole]

In preparation for having the stove front re-enamelled I removed all the 1/4" unc studs which stick out the back. Most snapped so needed drilling out and re-tapping:

 

 

Dropped it off at the enamelers on tuesday (factoid: There main business is making all the enamel signs for london underground)

 

Sadly on thursday afternoon I had an email from the company saying that during grit blasting to remove the old enamel they had found a hole in the front plate:

 

 

 

 

They gave me the option of them attempting a repair at my own risk for £150. Luckily they are just round the corner so I arranged to go and have a look,

 

It appears to have been a casting defect where some mould sand had fallen into the back whilst originally being cast. Grit blasting had blown the sand out leaving a paper thin area which had broken through.

I went and had a look at 4.45pm on thursday, Decided it didn't warrant £150 to have it repaired so chucked it back in the van and brought it back to the workshop.

 

Cracked out the Mig welder and die grinder and filled up the 12mm diameter crater from the back of the panel then chucked a bit of weld on from the front and ground it back.

Stuck it back in the van and dropped it back at the enamelling factory by 5.15pm!

 

 

Back of repair:

 

 

 

And the front:

 

 

 

And a quick overview of the newly blasted panel before I returned it:

 

 

 

In an ideal world I would have used stainless or dissimilar metal rods and Arc welded it (which was my original intention) but as its really only cosmetic and non structural Mig'ing it was quicker and has introduced less stress to the casting. Hopefully the enamelled parts might be ready for collection towards the end of next week.

 

 

I've also had a nice wooden packing crate arrive from Ireland:

 

 

 

 

Which contained a replacement set of new firebricks:

 

 

 

The back brick appears to be thicker than my original (and ribbed, presumably for extra pleasure) but I think that because its made as an exact alternative to the back boiler that would usually be fitted instead of the brick.

My original thinner back brick had some low density firebricks packed behind it to make up the thickness, not sure which solution is more efficient but overall I'm very happy with the quality of the bricks especially as everywhere else said they were no longer available. Dineen Refractories was the company, nice people to deal with.

 

 

Back brick compared to a back boiler:

 

 

 

Low density (plaster and vermiculite?) firebricks which were packed behind the old firebrick to add to the thickness:

 

 

 

And lastly a photo showing just how corrosive the mixture of condensation, flue tar and soot that formed in the old chimney then ran back into the stove was - This was the baffle plate from under the oven, I made it about 7 years ago out of 1.2mm 316L stainless steel:

 

 

 

hopefully next time it'll be a slightly more interesting post with some shiny new enamel bits, I also need to think about making some replacements for a few cracked cast iron panels on the inside of the stove.

Plan is to fabricate replacements from 5mm stainless plate as previous experience of welded repairs just resulted in them cracking in a different place after a few years.

 

Thanks for reading and I hope some of it has been of interest to someone!

 

Cheers

Dave

[DeeJay]

If the rest of the stove has a finish like this it seems a shame to enamel.

[anonymous user]

I love this thread

[UltraWomble]

Why not use an old MPV as your wheelhouse?

Sent from my BND-L21 using Tapatalk

[mercedade]

Want more. Give me more.

 

Ta

[808 Estate]

Fuck me! What an epic thread. ??

Bloody marvellous work.

[coalnotdole]

On 3/17/2020 at 9:36 PM, mercedade said:

Want more. Give me more.

 

Ta

I'll try and sort some more updates soon - Not a huge amounts happened, various bits progressed but nothing finished!

 

Cheers

Dave

[Arthur Foxhake]

On 3/2/2020 at 9:34 AM, UltraWomble said:

Why not use an old MPV as your wheelhouse?

Sent from my BND-L21 using Tapatalk
 

I think I saw that on the Grand Union near Hemel Hempstead!

[Alusilber]

Just discovered this thread and had to read it through from the beginning. Woodwork, metalwork, fibreglassing, welding, soldering, glueing...and lashings of nautical jargon. It's got the lot! ?

[RickyG]

This thread is ace. Hat off to you sir for an awesome restoration.

I remember seeing these PAS boats in Portsmouth harbour and getting to drive one as a very young sea cadet from Clarence yard to HMS Vernon.

If I ever win the lottery I want one of these or a Ham class minesweeper (my Dad was on Portisham in the RNXS).

Years ago on the Broads near Beccles I saw a really good condition HSL, it looked fantastic, I'm sure yours will be better.

[808 Estate]

A friend and I nearly bought a Ham class back in the mid 90s.

M2720 HMS Powderham. Converted at great expense to an inshore survey vessel and renamed HMS Waterwitch. They were asking £30K for her at Harry Pounds yard. We got the finance arranged subject to survey, but couldnt find anywhere to slip her. Due to her size, she needed dry docking and that was going to cost us nearly £10K when you include 2 guys from Lloyds spending 3 days giving her the oce over. We did get to fire up the Paxmans and have a go with the destroyer siren she was fitted with. ??

[coalnotdole]

Right folks, Time for the yearly thread update ?

I'll try to pick up where we left of last february when the stove front had been sent off for re-enamelling..

 

Stove front came back from the enamelers looking very smart:

 

Cut lots of assorted stainless bits ready for remaking the fiddle rails and pan clamps that go on the top of the stove:

 

 

I tacked together the modified stove pan;

 

With it all safely tacked together I sent the stove pan off to the shot blasters and it came back looking nice and clean:

 

 

I finished seam welding the modified pan together:

 

 

Trimmed down the tiles to fit into the modified front section:

 

And to keep the thread vaguely automotive themed I gave it all a coat of calliper paint:

 

The following bits of fabrication on the stove are all pretty recent and bring it pretty much right up to date, As it stands right now theres a bit more seam welding to do then I just need to finish off the sheetmetal work for the oven lining and the outer side panels. The fiddle rails and a few other little bits need welding up too then its time to stick it in the boat and reassemble it all for the final time.

 

Original stove back castings:

 

Stainless (316) copy starting to take shape:

 

I got my local cnc plasma guy to cut a load of copys of the lugs on the original castings out of some 12mm stainless plate:

 

 

Replica firebox support/ashpan side:

 

Tacking stuff together and test fitting panels it starts to take shape:

 

 

Some of the panels I got a local engineering firm to fold in their brake press to minimise the fabrication required:

 

 

Original back panel and rear flue:

 

Stainless copy:

 

Right hand side panel during early stages of fabrication:

 

Front and top castings test fitted onto the new inner assembly:

 

 

Stainless cut ready to fabricate the last few panels:

 

Welded:

 

And assembled into position:

 

Detail showing how the front casting attaches to the inner panels:

 

 

The stove project sort of sums me up really - I've taken a job that needed doing and rather than just fitting some repaired cast iron parts which would probably have lasted a couple of years I've specced everything to an obscene level thus managing to make it take over a year, £2k of materials, countless hours of labour and its still not finished!

How well the stainless will hold up to the heat around the firebox is also a bit of an unknown, I'm fairly confident it will perform as well as the original castings and hopefully suffer less from the damp that seems to form between the panels when the stove is not being used during the summer which has historically caused the cast iron panels to rust and stress themselves causing them to crack. I've also gone for a ceramic fibre insulation to replace the original rockwool lagging that goes between the inner panels and the thin steel outer casing.

 

Talking of thin steel outer panels - I've made a start on folding up replacements for them out of stainless too!:

 

Cheers for reading!

 

Dave

[Skizzer]

Wow ?

[gadgetgricey]

Fan fucking tastic work.