HBOLs

[Hendry]

Just wondered why you guys all refer to the Haynes manuals as the Haynes book of lies, always thought it was because they lied about how easy jobs were or how easy rusted seized bolts were to undo but now I'm thinking is it because of factual inaccuracies in the content.

 

Was flicking through my mk3 Clio one last night and there's a paragraph which says "all models have six airbags as standard. All but the base models have full size curtain airbags" now both sentences are incorrect but contradict each other too, the 6 airbags include the curtain ones so all models don't have 6, and models other than the base model haven't got curtain ones.

 

It also says "all models feature ESP (electronic stability program) as standard. Again lies as they don't.

 

So, yeah, what's the reason?

[dollywobbler]

Yup. Factual inaccuracies. There's a very dangerous one in the 2CV book where they helpfully suggest applying a tightening force to the oil cooler unions that WILL make you ruin your cylinder head. A bit of an unfair tag really though - we all use them still!

[oldford]

The Haynes Book of Myths and Legends.

[HillmanImp]

Yeah they are helpful to point me in the right direction but when i look at what i actually need to do compared to what they tell me i can normally figure out that i don't need to remove the full interior of the car and take off the wheels in order to change a spark plug.

 

Unless its a Renault.

[Pillock]

They used to get very early cars to bits, to get the manual onto shelves while the car was still new. From time to time things change.... Bolts get covered up by new equipment, part manufacturers change specs.... But the manual never gets rewritten.

[Lankytim]

They often have glaring omissions in their instructions too, or an illustration showing the front suspension on a MK4 Astra when the manual is for a Mondeo or something. New ones are made out of tracing paper too.

[rml2345]

I think HBOLs are great for missing out fairly key steps....

 

1. Disconnect battery.

2. Remove engine.

3. Remove clutch plate and inspect. Renew if necessary.

4. Reassembly is reverse of removal.

[cort16]

I think the instructions to remove the starter motor on an sd1 is 1: undo bolts 2: remove starter motor .

Cheers

[Lacquer Peel]

I find Haynes manuals tend to make things sound more complicated than they are. Best just to attack the car and use the Haynes as a rough guide. I've been tinkering with cars for 10 years now, and most of them are quite similar - i.e. one MacPherson strut is like another, most brake calipers are similar, etc.

[saucedoctor]

Some of the close-up photographs of components are pretty unhelpful, as they don't give a "context" as to where the offending might be in relation to anything else.

[Wilko220]

I too have fallen victim to some dodgy HBOL instructions, although I still think they're great books in general and I wouldn't be without one for whatever I own.

 

What pisses me off the most about Haynes though is how they ditched the outstanding mechanical line drawings from their covers and replaced them with pisspoor computerised ones instead. 

 

OLD:

 

 

 

NEW:

 

[bub2006]

Was it the mot checklist in some of the older ones had photos of a Peugeot305/309? I think my vectra/omega and metro books have them pictures. I will have to check. And yes I agree the older covers looked better

[cort16]

I've followed the instructions and I still can't get it to prime even with vasoline

 

[Lacquer Peel]

Poor man's 'The Joy of Sex'.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Some of the close-up photographs of components are pretty unhelpful, as they don't give a "context" as to where the offending might be in relation to anything else.

 

Particularly the older manuals which have been reprinted:

 

Fig 5: It is vital that the spring assembly is re-assembled exactly as shown

[mercrocker]

They are a bit more comfortable to bang your head  against instead of the workbench though.......

[Rover414]

The R8 HBOL for the 214 etc is a bit strange. The engine removal has too many steps and other bits are completely wrong, such as the centre console removal which according to the book is a simple 2 bolt and pull it out when in reality there are a few more bolts and a lot more messing about coaxing it out. Still handy for a general idea of what to look for.

[Lord Sterling]

I have HBOL for the Rover 800 but never, ever use it. It just simply isn't helpful. A few weeks ago I looked it up at my old friend Hydens to see about removing the door handle, Hyden couldn't make heads or tails of it and I found its description a bit vague, missing vital bits out as rml2345 pointed out.

[rml2345]

I always buy one for whatever chod I've got too, despite them being grossly unhelpful at times. It's usually better than nothing and they make quite a good collection. Started buying them for cars I've never had.

Agree that the new artwork is shit compared to the old line drawings.

[twosmoke300]

I've always thought that they should carry a disclaimer stating " any resemblance to any vehicle is purely coinsidental " (sp)

hbol led me a merry dance years ago when I had a mk2 Scirocco gti with issues. Thought it was the coil playing up so measured resistances against info in the hbol - knackered. New coil ordered , still the same and same readings. Refer to golf (same ign) hbol and that one had the correct readings. Grrr

[simmo]

I've have mentioned this previously so I'm probably boring some of you.

 

In my youth I worked in a Peugeot garage. A chap turned up one day with a nearly new 305 needing his interior mirror fixing back on the screen. The screen was slightly cracked from a prior effort with super glue. The matey that owned the Pug said it was the car used by Haynes for the 305 manual, he said he got it cheep but with no warrenty.

The next time we saw him the Pogo's clutch pack had detached itself, this never ever happens they usually need a bespoke puller. I've not seen their manual to see how they removed the clutch from the crank so can't say for sure that they buggered it.

[dollywobbler]

Here's another Haynes 'improvement' for you. The original BX manual is twice as thick as the later one. They cut vast swathes out, yet the later manual covers more models. That's progress! With both, you have to buy a separate manual for the diesel engines. 

[Sigmund Fraud]

HBOLs certainly have their limitations, but one would expect this as their target group is the slightly inept driveway tinkerer (people like myself !).

 

For people knowledgeable/brave/mad enough to want to rebuild their automatic gearbox etc., it's fairly easy to source pukka factory manuals for most cars. Some of them (anyone used ELSA ?) baffle you, recommending 20 different, unobtainable, 'special tools' to adjust a clutch cable or something. However most are sensibly written and accessible to even the most half-witted amongst us.

[alf892]

Can be useful for trim jobs.............you can do loads of damage trying hook trim out if you have no idea where the fasteners are!

[nigel bickle]

If its available for 'my car' -I 've got one.

 

Last time I referred to one? Years back.

 

Its down to experience & knowledge now- masquerading as a big hammer and angle grinder. Seems to solve most problems.

[Station]

Have a 'Chiltons' mamual for other cars - you think Haynes is bad? 'Open trunk and remove dashpot with aluminum faucet', it seems it simply can't be arsed explaining anything, terrible. The Chilton's Starion model also covers the Galant and Lancer, which are mostly two different cars.

I once tore all the pages out of a Hayne's manual and threw them down the street.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

I believe Haynes owns the Chilton manual company. 

[r.welfare]

They went to seed with the introduction of 'spanner ratings' and the move to printing them on toilet paper.

 

When I were a lad in my mid/late teens I bought up pretty much every old Haynes I could find at car boot sales (along with every Atari 2600, Spectrum, C64 etc - guess which were the better investments). The level of detail in the earlier ones (those first published up to, say, 1980) was way above the simplified shite they contain now. Too many sections now say 'this is beyond the capabilities of the DIY mechanic, please refer to your dealer).

 

On the other hand, a copy of the manufacturers' workshop manual on CDROM can be worthwhile. The one for the Accord is super detailed and even includes description of the nut and bolt sizes in the diagrams so you can have the right socket ready in advance.

[Shep Shepherd]

I find that websites such as the Volvo 700/900 FAQ and Matthew's Volvo Site are far more useful than anything published by Haynes in the last fifteen years when it comes to working on older Volvos

[Conrad D. Conelrad]