19 Years of Tin Snail - Back to normality

[Eddie Honda]

I understood you'd need to get back for Monday, but it appears the ton of work is on top of everything else.

[mrbenn]

In fairness, I think the AA/RAC/whoever you are with + the Autoshite Assistance Network would see you very unlikely not to return on Sunday night.

[forddeliveryboy]

Good result, the car looks smart outside the garage!

 

Densos are about the only plugs I trust in a 2cv anymore, for much more than 6 months - I've even known tired ones/tired leads/points send a partially-knackered coil into one of a variety of failure modes.

[richardmorris]

I'd bung in new points, condenser and plugs and see if it's running with that and some new fuel. If the plugs in are NGK make sure the top is screwed on tight as they seem to vibrate loose these days.

[beko1987]

Sad to hear it's not running right, but it's not running right with a fresh MOT! Should you fix it at 11.25pm one wednesday night and feel like going for a drive, you can go for a drive THERE AND THEN!

 

I presume in 2cv speak kingpins are minor service items and an easy job/they all do that sir?

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Congrats on the MOT pass. Looks a very happy motor.

 

Its just had a rushed (by your own admission) rebuild, so the fact it has what appears to be a minor FTP is a huge achievement. Also you already have an inkling as to what the issue is. Therefore I wouldn't get too disheartened.

 

Some of us have had terminal FTP on cars after very minor work, and never even made the MOT let alone pass first time, so you are winning so far!

[dollywobbler]

Sad to hear it's not running right, but it's not running right with a fresh MOT! Should you fix it at 11.25pm one wednesday night and feel like going for a drive, you can go for a drive THERE AND THEN!

 

I presume in 2cv speak kingpins are minor service items and an easy job/they all do that sir?

 

I've never changed one, but they often get picked up at MOTs. To be honest, they're fine until they're really worn. Then, the wheel will rattle alarmingly on corners, telling you it's time to change them. They always have play - the permitted play feels quite alarming to a tester used to balljoints. 

 

 

Congrats on the MOT pass. Looks a very happy motor.

 

Its just had a rushed (by your own admission) rebuild, so the fact it has what appears to be a minor FTP is a huge achievement. Also you already have an inkling as to what the issue is. Therefore I wouldn't get too disheartened.

 

Some of us have had terminal FTP on cars after very minor work, and never even made the MOT let alone pass first time, so you are winning so far!

 

This is true. I'm not used to this car breaking down though. It does so very infrequently! 

[vulgalour]

Excellent to have caught up on this and to read the good MoT news.  I look forward to reading about it deciding to be a little less French in its approach to electricity too.

[dollywobbler]

Ugh. This is odd. I had deliberately set the timing slightly retarded, as I had on the Dyane. So, as it was playing up today, I thought I should reset the timing back to factory. I've done that, and now it won't run at all. FFS. Given up for the night, before the neighbours start complaining about the noise.

[Ghosty]

I like how the MOT tester acknowledged the 2 hand-drawn on the odometer!

[dollywobbler]

I've broken down twice today. I need a better solution to ignition that condensers. I fitted a brand new one this morning. It lasted 15 miles...

[Sigmund Fraud]

I've broken down twice today. I need a better solution to ignition that condensers. I fitted a brand new one this morning. It lasted 15 miles...

 

There's always decent, new old stock ones on ebay. ALL MODERN CONDENZORZ R SHITE etc.

[dollywobbler]

Here's a recap. The day started with much tinkering. I refitted the old points box, which has a pretty fresh set of points in it, and attached a brand new condenser. I reset the ignition timing (which worked straight away on the timing marks, unlike last night), said 'hoorah' and bolted the fan back on.

 

I then went for a drive, and it was immediately apparent that this was a much happier engine. 18 litres of unleaded were sloshed into the tank, she restarted instantly and I continued on my test drive.

 

12 miles later, I felt a misfire. Then another. Then she coughed and spluttered and limped along on one cylinder (through a section of mini roundabouts, great!), then did it again on the next roundabout. Time for a break.

 

I had a spare coil, so I chucked that on, and all seemed fine at first. Barely a mile latter, the coughing, backfiring and spluttering began again. Backfiring eh? That really does seem a condenser-related incident. ARSE. I was 12 miles away from home, but keeping the revs up meant progress was maintained. Until halfway, when I decided a rest might be a good idea.

 

After a cool down, I set of again, with an occasional misfire but less of spluttering and banging. As I pulled up at home, she cut out again. Fine. She can stay there.

 

I dug out my old points-assisted controller, as I've had enough of shitty condensers (and the horrible access to said condenser). It seems a bit scorched.

 

This suggests that my suspicion that I accidentally wired it up incorrectly at some point was not wide of the mark.

 

So, what to do next? I could try and fix this Velleman kit, or I could just stump up £135 for a fully electronic ignition that should get rid of many problems. Oh, and maybe £35 for a new solid-state coil.

[richardmorris]

Do you have the old condenser from the Dyane lying around?

 

I've got lumenition and the yellow solid state coil. I've really only heard bad things about 123, but don't know if you can still get lumenitions?

 

Oh, I'd send you my old condenser but I'm keeping it and the points box in the boot in case of electronic failure.

[dollywobbler]

Do you have the old condenser from the Dyane lying around?

 

I've got lumenition and the yellow solid state coil. I've really only heard bad things about 123, but don't know if you can still get lumenitions?

 

Oh, I'd send you my old condenser but I'm keeping it and the points box in the boot in case of electronic failure.

 

I think I've already tried that condenser. Sod them. Bloody awful things.

 

The 123 ignitions had one bad spell. I was unfortunate enough to have one from that batch, but that was ten years ago! It did also do 40,000 miles before going wrong (and it turns out I could probably have had it replaced FOC, oh well!). I've spoken to several specialists who reckon they just don't go wrong anymore, so I'm very tempted to try another. Luminition is still available apparently, but is a fair dose more expensive. I'm thinking 123 plus a new resin-filled coil and hopefully she'll be sorted.

[dollywobbler]

I take that back. Only £20 more than 123. Sounds like a no-brainer!

[richardmorris]

In my mind 123 had a bad reputation, which is why I went for lumenition- but that was over ten years ago! Saved the cost in points and condensers by now!

 

My garage did say, get the car running right on points and then swap to electronic ignition as it won't cure other (mechanical or fuel) problems.

[Eddie Honda]

Tightwad option 1

 

Gut condenser, fit polyester cap inside the can and solder back up. A decent condenser will last donkeys.

 

Tightwad option 2

 

Fix Velleman, and either carry points condenser as above or 2nd Velleman. Eleventy billion times cheaper than 123 or Lumenition.

[meshking]

I've got a 123 that has been on successive 2cvs and dyanes. It must have covered about 100k easily. Never had an issue with it, but it was one of the first.

[3VOM]

My electronics is minimal but aren't those just common resistors that have got a bit cooked, and therefore could be easily replaced?

[Mally]

I had one once, wire to dizzy cut through on front edge of chassis, was knife edged. resulted in intermittent spark.

[captain_70s]

Congrats on MOT pass.

 

I wish the concept of repeated breakdown on short, simple trips was as alien to me as it is to you! Perhaps I should buy a Citroen...

[dollywobbler]

Congrats on MOT pass.

 

I wish the concept of repeated breakdown on short, simple trips was as alien to me as it is to you! Perhaps I should buy a Citroen...

 

Aye. It's not like she has never broken down, but she very rarely fails to get me where I want to go. I think transistorised ignition was a big step forward for reliability.

 

Speaking of which, a local chum (came to Shitefest 14 with the purple Sherpa) has the schematic for the Velleman kits, and has used plenty of them over time. They're dirt cheap to replace, but we'll see if this one can be salvaged. I still reckon I'll need a new coil, and again, modern tech should mean greater reliability there too.

[dollywobbler]

Today, I wanted to try and improve the ignition system, even though I suspect the coils I have are the main culprit. I'm no longer so convinced by the condenser, seeing as swapping coils improves things. Temporarily.

 

I drove a few miles to Parcgwyn (occasional visitor of this parish), with only one misfire on the way.

 

Things were done with meters and schematics to investigate my non-working Velleman unit. It was quickly apparent that I'd managed to blow the transistor on my ignition unit. Handily, Parcgwyn had a spare, so it was quickly fitted and I was sent on my way. I owe him a beer, which is far better than blowing £135 on electronic ignition.

 

I fitted the Velleman unit, then decided it'd be a good idea to change the engine oil. Naturally, I didn't check whether I had any oil until I'd dropped the old stuff out. Go me! So, a hasty trip in the ZX to just catch Charlies open, and grab some 10w40 semi-synth. Bit posh really, but can't be choosy at 3:50pm on a Sunday afternoon. Cost me £12.49 for five litres, and it's Comma.

 

Got back, new oil, new plugs and new air filter. Light was fading fast, so I made the mistake of hurrying. Set off for a test drive, noticed that the wipers were slow. Realised I'd not hooked the alternator back up to the fan when I had to remove it to disconnect the condeser. DUH!

 

So, fan grille back off, fan back off, hook up belt, refit fan, refit grille and off we go! She was definitely running better now. I was able to cover over 5 miles without conking out! Brilliant.

 

Headed back, but the wipers went slow again. That suggested no alternator. That suggested that the fan had come off. Nowt to do but push gently on home (I had no tools). I was able to coast through the village and down my driveway, but she was pretty warm. Fan grille back off AGAIN, fan refitted, bolt definitely tight (I hope) and then she wouldn't restart. I wondered if it might be vapour lock given she'd got hot. I didn't like this though. Hot engines can quickly become seized engines. I changed the coil, BINGO!

https://twitter.com/dollywobbler/status/818154291940753409

 

So, I've mostly made a twat of myself today, but a hero fixed my ignition. 

[dollywobbler]

Right. New coil ordered. Should be here tomorrow. Hopefully that's the key to a reliable 2CV again!

 

In other news, the battery doesn't seem entirely happy. It has a status indicator, but is resolutely refusing to go back into the Green 'charged' state. It is clearly holding charge, but I'm wondering if lots of storage, very little use and a heavy time powering lights and stuff during the rebuild has left it a bit out of shape. Now, I'm aware you can buy battery reconditioners, but what is they actually do and is it possible to manually recondition one so to speak?

[Eddie Honda]

They do some voodoo magic. As an aside, Lidl have their smart chargers back in from 15th Jan. £14. http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-2491.htm?action=showDetail&id=40868

[dollywobbler]

They do some voodoo magic. As an aside, Lidl have their smart chargers back in from 15th Jan. £14. http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-2491.htm?action=showDetail&id=40868

 

Cool. May go and grab one. Thanks for the tip.

[Asimo]

I don't know where the condensor* is on a 2CV, but it doesn't need to be located there.

 

On any engine with coil and points ignition, just fit the condensor on / near to the coil, connected to the coil terminal that goes to the points. Earth the body of the condenser really thoroughly.

 

Electrically this is identical: the function of the condensor is to store the voltage generated in the primary of the coil when the points open and then return that energy into the coil - a brief resonance which is a big part of generating the spark voltage in the coil.

 

**Condensor is just a Victorian word for Capacitor.

[mat_the_cat]

Cool. May go and grab one. Thanks for the tip.

 

A new battery is only £26, at least up here:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/002L-Car-Batteries-G5.html

 

I'd be more inclined to do that, unless I was thinking of a charger anyway.

 

Fixing the Velleman kit makes a lot of sense really in the long term, as you have something made up of standard electronic components, which can be fairly easily fixed for the foreseeable future. I would think that a bought EI kit would have (tiny) surface mount components, and encased in resin making any repairs difficult. Not to mention more expensive!

[richardmorris]

Right. New coil ordered. Should be here tomorrow. Hopefully that's the key to a reliable 2CV again!

 

In other news, the battery doesn't seem entirely happy. It has a status indicator, but is resolutely refusing to go back into the Green 'charged' state. It is clearly holding charge, but I'm wondering if lots of storage, very little use and a heavy time powering lights and stuff during the rebuild has left it a bit out of shape. Now, I'm aware you can buy battery reconditioners, but what is they actually do and is it possible to manually recondition one so to speak?

 

 

I have the X1/9 on a conditioner. It keeps it fully charged in the garage and the old battery was fine at nine years old. Batteries do not like sitting in storage with no charging. The cells die.