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gtd2000

Motorcycling - Current Chinese Shite v. Older Japanese Shite

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Aren't most bikes worth more in parts than as a whole once they are over 5 years old? That might explain the short lifespan.

 

Mind you, cars are getting like that...

 

Are the Pakistani Hondas actually Indian Hero Hondas? Not that a Pakistani would admit to wanting a Indian-made bike!

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The selling vs production cost prices are so different.

 

A few years back I read an article that it costs Dacia $1069 to produce one Dacia Logan.

 

You couldn't even get a respray for that money, let alone a new car underneath it ;)

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I've a kinetic Honda scooter, an Indian only licensed bike, ridden here by the original owner& wife, as a cheap way of getting to the uk.

Cos dvla lunched the chassis number, mistaking it for the body number, it couldn't go through its first mot ,so sat thereafter, ending in vets dungeon where I retrieved, sorted and relegalled.

 

It's quite fun to ride, not special, but a bit " different".

 

Bit like me, I guess

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gtd2000, on 28 Aug 2014 - 1:10 PM, said:

For the older Honda SS50 fans grab yourself a CD70 and turn it into a Cafe Racer project and make your fortune - starting at just over £400 with a two year warranty:

 

http://bikes.qeemat.com/honda/honda-cd-70-price-in-pakistan.php

 

One of the good points of the bike, according to that article: "The latest suspension system and the smooth & efficient brakes add to the safety of, otherwise, dangerous vehicle" :-D

 

Corsaviour, on 29 Aug 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I seem to recall it was almost impossible not to wheelie an X7. Didnt they use to power wheelie with a gentle twist of the throttle?

 

I used to ride one regularly back in the late 1980s, it was fairly tame under 6,000 rpm. In fact, I don't remember it being more powerful than other similar offerings of the time (RD 250 and suchlike), but the way its frame used to flex in long fast bends caused me many a soiled underpant.

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What does it cost for one of those?

£1999 or £56/month

Tax £16

FC insurance £87

Reputed 90 MPG

 

I was looking at a SYM on their 0% but having sat on one it was rather lost up my bottom, whereas this a

is a maxi scoot style. I cant believe the price hike between this and a 200 or 300cc though.

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I've a kinetic Honda scooter, an Indian only licensed bike, ridden here by the original owner& wife, as a cheap way of getting to the UK

He and his wife travelled from India to Britain on a fuggin Honda scooter???

 

What a hero..(and nutter)!

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One of the good points of the bike, according to that article: "The latest suspension system and the smooth & efficient brakes add to the safety of, otherwise, dangerous vehicle" :-D

 

 

I used to ride one regularly back in the late 1980s, it was fairly tame under 6,000 rpm. In fact, I don't remember it being more powerful than other similar offerings of the time (RD 250 and suchlike), but the way its frame used to flex in long fast bends caused me many a soiled underpant.

 

 

My mate's was a twitchy as fuck, I had one go of it in the wet and very nearly lost it riding over a drain cover. He could lift the front end with alarming ease, especially two up. He rarely did though, as he rode it like a big girl's blouse and kept taking ti back because it was clogging up. Every time he did, the mechanic would take it up the road, thrash the absolute knackers off it and declare it fault free. 

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I seem to recall it was almost impossible not to wheelie an X7. Didnt they use to power wheelie with a gentle twist of the throttle?

 

I was always hopeless at doing wheelies, so probably not the best person to ask but wouldn't say they came up that readily.

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Been looking at the price of X7's recently and even an awful example seems to fetch £1000 these days!

 

In other news, I've now done almost 300km's on my Riders Sup Cub!

 

Still running it in at 45~50MPH...weather has been too crap to even contemplate getting it out for a bimble...

 

Also been doing a bit of fettling with my '86 GSX-R750, looks like it needs a set of fork seals for the MoT and that should be it.

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Well I sold my X7 to a chap from Wales a couple of months back and have been doing a bit of tootling around on my Super Cub. No major issues with this lump of Chinese shite after one year of ownership.

 

I've done a wee video review here if anybody is interested:

 

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I'm always wary of Chinese motorbikes. One of my mate's bought a 50cc "Kinroad" back at college, brand new for £800, that should have sent alarm bells ringing for a start.

 

The thing was a perambulating nightmare, it never started, the electrics constantly failed, it broke down all the time, parts fell off and replacement parts lasted about as long as the originals. Eventually the brakes failed and he went into the back of a people carrier, at which point it fell over and the fuel tank burst open, glorious.

 

Another mate had a Honda CG-125 that was bullet proof, I always thought it was a well built clone because it looked older than it's registration implied but apparently in 2001 there was a run of "nostalgic" CGs for the JDM which were frequently imported over here but featured the old square headlight and chrome mudguards. I was tempted to do my CBT and buy it off him when he replaced it with a Bandit to run around town on while I was at college but I couldn't afford it at the time...

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Some bikes were dreadful, with rear shocks that have zero damping and weak springs, thin and brittle plastics, poor quality paint application, awful chromework, piss poor brake materials, and engine screws and bolts that are made of cheese. Now, am I talking about about a 1960's Japanese bike, or a 2010 Chinese bike? Both were the same, but the Japanese soon sorted themselves out, and the Chinese are on their way to making decent bikes.

 

I had the use of a Chinese built Honley Venturer 250 last year, and I rode it around Devon for the weekend

 

post-19526-0-82920500-1432059947_thumb.jpg

 

Built quality really good, with decent components used-brakes that braked, suspension that actually had good damping, great quality plastics and paintwork, good switchgear and properly shielded electrics, and decent mapping for the fuel injection (can't say that about the KTM's I have ridden).

 

Couldn't even waterlog it riding through the river at Tarstepps (none of my mates attempted the crossing). Had the bow wave come right over the top of the crankcases and it showed no ill effects. Only gripes were the boxes were a bit small (but very useful still) and the idiot lights on the dash were quite dim. I liked it-lovely bike for B-roads and gravel-small and light enough to give a bit of confidence off road.

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...said some complimentary things about Chinese bikes....

Tis true - the new Benelli QJ's have had some good reviews as have the WK 650's. the Yamaha YBR125 is also very popular, and made in China.

 

It's a repeat of the Jap bike saga but at high speed. The Chinese flogged a lot of crap only 5 years ago, have learnt some lessons and have come back with products almost as good as the west. In 5 years. With help from Italy/Japan. The Japs took 15-20 years before they fully understood how to make a decent bike.

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Very true. There could well be some excellent stuff coming out of China over the next decade (cars, bikes, vans, etc.)

 

I know that Deutz has been working on a joint venture with them... watch this space, I suppose..

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I should have got off my arse and bought that off you.

Yeah prices have now gone mad for them!

Unfortunately, so have the spare part prices.

It looks like it would make more sense to buy a fully restored one now, all the small bits and bobs add up at an astonishing rate these days!

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I'm always wary of Chinese motorbikes. One of my mate's bought a 50cc "Kinroad" back at college, brand new for £800, that should have sent alarm bells ringing for a start.

 

The thing was a perambulating nightmare, it never started, the electrics constantly failed, it broke down all the time, parts fell...

One of the reasons I bought this super cub was to see for myself what they were really like. They have a decent reputation for reliability and on that basis makes more sense to buy one of these than a rusty original Honda.

This one cost me around £650 on the road. A rusty C90 would be about the same price, so it was worth trying.

 

As you can see from the YouTube video it's pretty decent and it's not fallen to bits so far.

 

It starts very nicely and goes very well indeed.

 

Unless the prices of old shagged out Japanese bikes drop severely, I'll be looking at another Chinese bike in the near future.

 

Not sure I'd go for a large capacity Chinese bike yet but certainly something that's of smaller capacity seems like a reasonable choice.

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Problem I see with them is the sheer number of different makes, no dealers (as such) and parts back up. The Japanese at least had 'high street' dealers from early days and there were not that many of them, makes I mean.

 

I have had the misfortune to attempt to work on a few and the quality was truly shocking. But, the engines where they were directly copied from Japanese bikes (Honda and Suzuki) were pretty good. I had to rebuild a 250cc quad bike gearbox for a chap about three years ago as it had eaten two gears and getting parts was a nightmare... for him, I wouldn't have anything to do with getting the bits!

 

My wife had a CCM 250 dirt bike which I bought new for her. It was a re-badged Chinese thing (Honda CRF 230 and I did know all that before I bought it) but the CCMs had a good rep in the TRF at the time and one of the 'roughest' riders had one and was quite happy with it.

 

I rode it for the first time and couldn't believe how bad the suspension was: no damping to speak of and way too soft. I spent a lot of money having a Hagon shock made for it ( hardly top notch gear!) and I also got a mate who was a machinist to make me a lowering link for the back suspension. The fun and games trying to get new bearings for the link was unbelievable and this was with CCM proudly boasting about their parts availability!

 

With the rear suspension sorted it was a very capable bike (had the front forks modded as well later) but the plastics were shit and the graphics came off with a feeble jetwash! None of that usually matters as cosmetics are the last thing on a trail riders mind, but I'm OCD and the bikes HAD to be PERFECT before every ride! Yes, I'm quite insane but I can't do with tatty bikes.

 

Also, the clocks didn't like rain and misted up within days of being new and packed up a few weeks later, replaced with a Vapor dash (£90 well spent!) and even though the bikes were cleaned to within an inch of their lives after every ride, then GT85/WD40/and something else that was much better but I've forgotten the name of (senile) it went rusty everywhere. The paint on the frame was about a micron thick and wanted to rust (I didn't let it!) and every nut and bolt was rubbish. I replaced nearly every one with stainless (I don't like rust!).

 

Also, as part of pre use checks, I checked everything and not a single bearing had any grease in it! Head bearings, swingarm, bone dry. They would have lasted minutes on the trails if left like that.

 

It was also made out of monkey metal. Alloy rims bent at the first sign of a rock (replaced) and the rear swingarm was trashed in a few weeks. I had a new one made in alloy... I like wasting money... but my wife liked the bike by then.

 

Yes, it was cheap at £2000 otr but it wasn't worth the money!

 

I'm not really a fan of the Chinese (except the nosh!) as they have no qualms about copying anything (watches - my second love and anything automotive) and then making it to 'look' the same but made as cheap as possible.

 

Incidentally, my wife's first bike was a 'Japanese' Yamaha XT125. I wanted that for her  (it was another brand new one) as Japanese reliability. The engine seized after 1000 miles! It was run in like a baby and rev limits adhered to religiously. This was after the gearbox stuck in fourth after 400 miles and it had to be rebuilt by the dealer. It turned out (I didn't do research) that the bike itself was made in South America and the engine was made in ..... China!

 

After much hassle, Yamaha stuck a new engine in it which we thrashed from day one! It was fine....

 

So now, while I will always buy Japanese (I was an early adopter!) I will also ALWAYS make sure the fucker was actually made in Japan!

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Problem I see with them is the sheer number of different makes, no dealers (as such) and parts back up. The Japanese at least had 'high street' dealers from early days and there were not that many of them, makes I mean.

 

 

So now, while I will always buy Japanese (I was an early adopter!) I will also ALWAYS make sure the fucker was actually made in Japan!

 

I think the problem of many makes and no dealers is slowly disappearing. The higher quality Chinese bikes I mentioned above are being sold through proper dealers and are genuinely good bikes - if you see one cast your eyes over it. There were many Japanese manufacturers into the mid 60's and they faded away until only the 4 best (or at least most persistent) survived. Goodbye to Lilac, Marusho, Meguro, Miyata, Rikuo, Tohatsu, Cabton, Hodaka etc etc. The same is happening with the Chinese makes, but at a faster rate.

 

My Honda CBF600N is absolutely fantastic - as you would expect it is totally reliable and made to the exacting standards you would expect from Honda. It is made in Italy. The Keihin fuel injection system is made in the UK as are the Nippon Seiki instruments. Most of the lighting is Italian - CEV, the headlight though is German (Hella). The frame, tank, panels and seats are made in-house in Italy. The only Japanese parts are the engine, suspension (Showa) and brakes (Nissin). Not sure where the wheels came from. I've had to buy one spare part in 5 years - a nut that holds the silencer to its mounting as the old one disappeared. The replacement came individually wrapped in a genuine Honda spares package - proudly declaring that it was Made in Spain.

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The attraction (to some) of Chinese bikes is price, and price alone. They don't look at things like suspension units, chain width, quality of plastics and decals, and build quality, they see the price and that there is a warranty. Sadly some of the warranty conditions are very vague (Lexmoto's website says "up to 2 years warranty". Up to? How stupid). Can't remember which company it is, but they want their bikes serviced every 160 (one hundred and sixty) miles before they will honour their warranty.

 

I'd like a 250 for back road stuff, so looks like the Honley will figure in my reckoning

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