Semi auto

[mk2_craig]

Found an old Top Gear magazine today with an article on the Saab Sensonic transmission today, anybody got any experience of one? Or others similar eg Renner 'Easy' clutchless gearbox. Suppose its impossible to find one in working order these days!

[Guest]

They're all shite.

[cort16]

I think Alfa do one as well. It's not the selespeed but equally as hopeless.

In that top gear worst car in the world thing that came out at at Christmas they attempted to reverse one into a parking space up a hill. It didn't work very well.

[Vinylseats]

A few years ago I had an 04 Corsa Easytronic and although it was nice not to have to change gears the jerkiness when it changed gear going up hill was quite shocking. On the flat is was okay and changed quite smoothly. However, I sold it six months later and bought a manual instead.

 

These newer Volkswagen DSG autos seem intriguing though and are apparently smooth and quick. I'm waiting for them to come down in price.

[Andrew353w]

The NSU Ro 80 has a semi-automatic box; when you touched the gear lever the clutch disengaged. Apparently it worked very well, and cured any driver of driving with one hand on the gear stick..... Citroen DS 21 & 23s had a similar system although I don't know quite how theirs worked. Sounds good in theory, but I can't imagine why, if you're thinking of buying a car with this, you wouldn't just buy an automatic in the first place!

 

My Wartburg Knight had a free-wheel, which allowed you to change gear without using the clutch at all & it worked brilliantly! All you had to do was let the revs drop, move to the next gear, rev up & off you went! When I jumped in another car after driving the Wartburg for a few weeks I crunched a few gears, forgetting that no other car had this facility.....

 

Just to add, if you take your test in a semi-auto you're only licensed to drive automatics.

[John F]

I've ridden a few Honda C90s

[fordperv]

I've ridden a few Honda C90s

 

I love boggie 90s they are great

[carlo]

The NSU Ro 80 has a semi-automatic box; when you touched the gear lever the clutch disengaged. Apparently it worked very well, and cured any driver of driving with one hand on the gear stick..... Citroen DS 21 & 23s had a similar system although I don't know quite how theirs worked. Sounds good in theory, but I can't imagine why, if you're thinking of buying a car with this, you wouldn't just buy an automatic in the first place!

 

My Wartburg Knight had a free-wheel, which allowed you to change gear without using the clutch at all & it worked brilliantly! All you had to do was let the revs drop, move to the next gear, rev up & off you went! When I jumped in another car after driving the Wartburg for a few weeks I crunched a few gears, forgetting that no other car had this facility.....

 

Just to add, if you take your test in a semi-auto you're only licensed to drive automatics.

 

That Wartburg takes me back, my first car was a '75 Knight. Clutchless downchanges were a piece of cake, and usually elicited alarm from passengers sitting in the front. From memory changes up required a bit more care.

[vulgalour]

I nearly bought a semi-auto 70s flat windscreen Beetle in dark green as my first car many moons ago. I gave up trying to buy it because the elderly seller kept changing his mind as to whether or not it was actually for sale. Never got to drive it, this is just a semi-auto anecdote.

[Volksy]

I had the misfortune to drive one of those 'Easytronic' Corsas also, it was absolutely hopeless, in both 'Manual' and 'Auto' modes. Clunky, dim-witted, jerky, slow and impossible to drive smoothly. It was a rental car so it got returned and exchanged for an Astra with a traditional auto box.

 

IIRC Mercedes offered a Semi-Auto on the early A Class, wonder if there is any of those still knocking about.

[dollywobbler]

Semi-autos feel entirely pointless for most of the time. I've driven Ro80, DS, GS C-Matic, Smart and Saab 9-5 with steering wheel buttons. They're all a pain in the backside. Fully auto is so much better - it's not like you can't make one a semi-auto when you really need one anyway (ie to hold a gear when hooning or going downhill).

 

Agree about Wartburgs. Citroen 2CV used to be available with a trafficlutch which allowed you to forget about dipping the clutch around town. A nice compromise though it does mean you can't bump start the car.

[Six-cylinder]

I seem to remember driving a 1974 Saab 95 that had a free wheeling setting, can you remember what that was all about?

 

Chris

[Spiny Norman]

ISTR these Sensonic Saabs were slated as being crap as soon as they appeared, though I've never driven one. I have driven a flappy paddle modern semi auto and after the novelty wore off a mile or so down the road I just stuck it in Drive which made it all easier but it had the worst changes of any auto box I've ever encountered.

 

As an old fart I far prefer either a proper manual with a clutch and a gear lever or a nice PRNDL slushmatic with a torque converter. I really don't see the point in paying the extra money for any kind of autobox and then playing about with the gears myself, kinda defeats the purpose really.....

[dollywobbler]

While we're at it, why on earth have modern autos got more gears than the average truck? I think the Rangie is up to eight forward speeds - which'll be 16 if they still have low range gears. My CX auto was superb. Just three speeds, so it wasn't constantly panicking about which gear to be in. It was either moving away, building up more speed or cruising. Lovely.

[Andrew353w]

My Wartburg Knight had a free-wheel, which allowed you to change gear without using the clutch at all & it worked brilliantly! All you had to do was let the revs drop, move to the next gear, rev up & off you went! When I jumped in another car after driving the Wartburg for a few weeks I crunched a few gears, forgetting that no other car had this facility.....

 

That Wartburg takes me back, my first car was a '75 Knight. Clutchless downchanges were a piece of cake, and usually elicited alarm from passengers sitting in the front. From memory changes up required a bit more care.

 

Yes, that was becuase the revs had to be lower to change up than to change down.

 

Regarding the Range Rover with 16 gears, at this rate an automatic will soon have an infinite number of gears....wait a minute... that's a Daf!!

[tooSavvy]

My Hreg 626 2.0 Auto (4sp, lockup 4) was absolutely magic... wafted along, naa praablemm!

 

Hatchback, nice car....

 

tooSavvy

[Spiny Norman]

While we're at it, why on earth have modern autos got more gears than the average truck?

 

Something that's puzzled me as well.

I always used to be under the impression that a torquey engine didn't need as many gears because it had a nice fat power band. Witness all the 60s and 70s V8s & V12s that made do with a 3 speeder yet still managed impressive acceleration times and good top speeds. I think it's just another stupid 'tech war' going on, like the Germans are doing with ze powerrrr.

 

I can see why modern turdoweasels need loads of gears with their tiny power bands, but I can't see the need in something like V8 Lexus.

[Angrydicky]

What about the Triumph Acclaim and various early 80's Hondas that had the 3-speed Hondamatic/Triomatic semi auto 'box? They are really nice to use.

[dollywobbler]

What about the Triumph Acclaim and various early 80's Hondas that had the 3-speed Hondamatic/Triomatic semi auto 'box? They are really nice to use.

 

Same theory as the Citroen C-Matic/NSU I think. Torque converter to replace the clutch but you still select your own ratio. Most of them are pleasant enough to use, you just end up wondering why. Not as good as full manual, more faff than full auto.

[wuvvum]

My CX auto was superb. Just three speeds, so it wasn't constantly panicking about which gear to be in. It was either moving away, building up more speed or cruising. Lovely.

Although I always found auto CXs rather undergeared for such a big, torquey, slow-revving four-pot. Mind you the C-matic was no better. That's actually the only proper semi-auto car I've owned - it was different, but not a setup I'd choose over a normal auto (notwithstanding the fact that mine was a bit knackered). I've had a few proper autos with tiptronic, but found myself rarely using them so again a bit pointless. The one in the Magentis wouldn't allow me to change up into fourth below 35mph, which pissed me off.

 

The freewheel in Saab V4s is a carry over from the two stroke days, and is indeed useful for clutchless changes. Early 99s had a freewheel too for some reason. As did some Rover P4s I believe.

[cort16]

I recon the 8 speed gearboxes and the like are an economy thing. I think the latest 3 series has an 8 speed auto box, which is supposed to be quite good but the earlier 7 speeders made a couple of years ago are supposed to be a right pain as they're constantly hunting up and down the gears and can never seem to make their mind up (as you'd expect).

 

I see the new 911 comes with one of these. I'm just getting my head around driving a car with a 6 speed gearbox.

 

[406V6]

In the late 90s when choosing a company car I test drove a Saab 900 that had a clutchless gear change. You just moved the gear lever when you wanted to change gear. Can't remember anything about driving it so it obviously wasn't a memorable experience. At the time it was quite expensive and the clutchless gearbox seemed a bit pointless. For less money I got a Vectra SRi V6 although admittedly manual change. Ignore what everyone says - superb car - with a lovely British-built engine.

[Spiny Norman]

 

It's getting closer all the time....

 

 

Or the French version....

 

[michael1703]

I had a sensonic Saab dumped at mine by someone who couldn't get theirs to work, after stripping the drivers seat and transmission tunnel and pulling up the carpet and poking wires and plugging in multimeters.... We cheated and bolted a vectra manual clutch master cylinder on instead

[purplebargeken]

Smart car gearboxes - made from Satan's vomit and Nick Clegg's nasal hair trimmings. Quite simply the worst gearbox in the multiverse. Google 'roundabout fear' and look at how much relates to Smart cars.

[purplebargeken]

Well, maybe not that much on Google but ask any Smart car owner with some brain cells left just how shite the car is at roundabouts.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

My dad's had two Honda Jazzes- a 2006 model replaced by a 2009 one (both bought new, completely pointless stuff as he does very few miles). Both of them have been fitted with 7-speed boxes with paddle shift. Of course, I can't be bothered dealing with that crap, so I've always stuck them on D, as you'd do with a proper autobox. The first one worked reasonably well most of the time, but the 'new and improved' model is a complete bag of shite and can never get gearchanges right. Consequently, you're more likely to switch to paddle shifting which, of course, is also very annoying- I mean, it's a 1.4 for going round town, WTF are you supposed to do with SEVEN gears?

[alf892]

I've got a p2 Rover with freewheel and its great but you do need to drive with your brain on. Once you let your foot off the throttle the drive disengages and you change up or down. Just smoothly re apply the throttle and drive is taken up again. As long as you plan your progress you don't use the clutch and you just have to remember there is no engine braking.

[alf892]

I've got a p2 Rover with freewheel and its great but you do need to drive with your brain on. Once you let your foot off the throttle the drive disengages and you change up or down. Just smoothly re apply the throttle and drive is taken up again. As long as you plan your progress you don't use the clutch and you just have to remember there is no engine braking.

[face]

Well, maybe not that much on Google but ask any Smart car owner with some brain cells left just how shite the car is at roundabouts.

 

I got rid of my Smart before Christmas. I liked it but the gearbox took lots of getting used to - you could easily plant your right foot and get nothing for a period of time long enough to get yourself in the shit at junctions.

 

Once you got used to it (and turned the stupid MHD system off) it was OK - just required a little care and planning when driving.