project 1980 Austin Princess

[Ben_O]

Is that selector box not the same as Mini/Metro ones?

 

If so, a replacement can be had easily and cheaply. I even have one here sitting doing nothing

[vulgalour]

S'funny, someone said the same thing over on the blue forum and yes, I think it probably is.  I know that there's a few parts bin bits on the Princess shared with the Mini so it wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those items.  On the plus side, that means potentially I could fit a better selector box intended for a Mini to improve the gearchange.  I can get some measurements for you so we can see if they are.  If you've a spare looking for a use and it is suitable, I'd gladly rehome it for you.

[Ben_O]

S'funny, someone said the same thing over on the blue forum and yes, I think it probably is.  I know that there's a few parts bin bits on the Princess shared with the Mini so it wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those items.  On the plus side, that means potentially I could fit a better selector box intended for a Mini to improve the gearchange.  I can get some measurements for you so we can see if they are.  If you've a spare looking for a use and it is suitable, I'd gladly rehome it for you.

Excellent.

I have one in the shed so ill dig it out over the weekend and share a picture with some measurements.

If it is the Mini type, then a KAD quickshift might be an option for you.

They are a bit marmite as the close the gate right up making the gears really close together and some people hate that but I personally prefer it.

If you don't hear anything from me about it, then feel free to PM me and remind me.

 

Cheers

Ben

[vulgalour]

Will do.  I don't really understand how the remote selector box could improve the gate spacing, I would have thought that was dictated by the gearbox internals.  Still, a slightly less separate-postcode-for-each-gear approach to selection would be welcome.

[PhilA]

There is a change in the ratio of the lever arm that the thing braces against to actually push the selector shafts.

 

I had a short-shift arm that came with the replacement gearshift lever for the Renault and while it made the gears really close together it also made the shift intolerably heavy.

 

The action of improving the bushings made a significant improvement to the standard factory position of the gears though.

 

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

End of Week 22 Report.

 

I forget to do an end of week report for Week 21, so I've rolled the two together.

 

On attempting to rebuild the spare calipers I've got, we learned that 3 of the 4 pistons in each caliper are completely stuck in place.  We also learned the old brake pad retaining pieces are rusted away, like so.

 

This is an ongoing issue, so far we've tried putting 300psi of pressure into the calipers and the pistons simply won't budge so it may be a job I have to farm out.  I'm loathe to dismantle the brakes on the car in case something goes wrong and I end up without the car, so I've basically done nothing with the brakes since fitting the skimmed disc to solve the warped disc issue.  This is fine as a short term solution, but not as a long term one and it's annoying to have the new parts to go on the car, but not quite be able to fit them because I want the calipers rebuilt to make the best of the job I possibly can.  I don't want an old sticking caliper or similar to ruin a set of brand new discs and pads.

 

The massive socket I ordered arrived so I could do the balljoint that was advised at MoT.  I re-used the old shim which seemed to be the correct size, fortunately.  I've not done pre-load balljoints like these before so I'm hoping I did it right, time will tell of course if these wear out much sooner than they should.  The passenger side wasn't advised but I wanted to do it anyway, I was thwarted by simply not being strong enough to undo the balljoint that's fitted, even with very long poles.  It could do with being on the workshop lift, but that's been occupied for quite some time by a Rover 75 so I just decided to leave that side alone for now.  Here's new and old parts.  I did have to swap the spring-type o-ring from the old balljoint boot to the new one because the new balljoint boot had a rubber o-ring that wasn't strong enough to hold the boot in place.

 

Next MoT item was the upper steering column bush.  This is fortunately an easy part to get, shared with a plethora of BL vehicles.  Removal is somewhat involved, requiring this scene to happen again.

 

 

Eventually I had the inner column out of the outer sheath and had the old bush removed.  It was very clear to see where the play was coming from once it was removed, the whole thing had shattered.

 

I couldn't find a replacement bush for the lower end of the column but given how tight a fit the existing one is and how fiddly it was to reassemble everything as a result, I doubt that's going to be a problem.  Unlike other BL stuff, the Princess has a narrower bush at the bottom of the column of a different design to the top one, and I couldn't find that part, so I'm glad the one on the car was okay.  Assembly was fairly straightforward and I've now got rid of an occasional dashboard squeak and a dashboard rattle I couldn't place, so that was a happy little bonus.  Steering feels more direct, and also heavier at lower speeds, the latter is less welcome than the former.

 

The other item I wanted to resolve was the interior light.  I'd had a problem with the old festoon bulb melting the holder, which is also integral for the rear view mirror.  I had a spare, and that too had obviously suffered the same issue since it had a partially melted spot where mine had a melted hole.  To resolve this I ordered a warm white LED - this was a pain to find, ended up going to my local motorfactors and special ordering it - since I hate ultra bright LEDs in cars.  The light quality isn't as nice as the old incandescent bulb, but now it never gets hot so I'll never have the melted holder issue.

[vulgalour]

Next up was to try and identify the cause of the minor oil leak.  Normally, I'd just take this opportunity to wave my hands in the vague direction of the car itself.  However, I wanted to be a little more methodical so I started by giving the engine bay a quick clean down.

 

That highlighted that the wiring that runs across the front of the block needed to be re-wrapped.  The old electrical tape someone had used has gone brittle and isn't sticky on the inside any more so it just flakes off.  This had been hidden when the engine was much oilier on the outside than it is these days.

 

The main oil leak at the front is the O-ring for the distributor shaft.  I've had recurrent problems with this as finding an o-ring that's the correct size is surprisingly difficult and after a while, they seem to stop being effective which means it weeps oil all down the front of the block, into the spark plug wells, and onto the floor.  You can see from the cleaner portions where the oil has been seeping.

 

The other oil leak was a surprise.  The engine used to be very oily on the passenger driveshaft side and I'd assumed this was the driveshaft seal.  It's not, the oil is actually seeping up from the speedo cable.  Another o-ring here should fix that and might even fix the rattle it has.

 

 

Happily, the rebuilt carburettor is staying spotlessly clean, never sweats fuel, and never gets oily.

 

I gave the fluids a check too.  Brake fluid isn't terrible, though will be changed when I do the brakes.  Coolant has gone from being quite blue to now being very pale blue, the gunge in the bottle is just residue on the bottle itself, I could do with chucking the whole bottle in a dishwasher really.  Oil is getting ready for a change, it's not terrible, but it's due June/July time anyway.

 

 

 

The underside of the engine used to always be slightly greasy looking.  Now it's mostly dry apart from the aforementioned leak points.  This is a huge improvement over when I bought the car and I'm happy about it.

 

Another irritation has also been solved which was something rubbing on a tyre on full lock and certain suspension articulation points.  Turns out, one of the arch liners had got broken and an edge was catching the tyre.  I trimmed that back and the problem is now gone.  Shown here is the good side and the now-trimmed broken side.

 

 

Other than that, the only problem its thrown at me is that the alternator is sporadically charging incorrectly, not at all, or too much.

[richardthestag]

The massive socket I ordered arrived so I could do the balljoint that was advised at MoT.  I re-used the old shim which seemed to be the correct size, fortunately.  I've not done pre-load balljoints like these before so I'm hoping I did it right, time will tell of course if these wear out much sooner than they should.  The passenger side wasn't advised but I wanted to do it anyway, I was thwarted by simply not being strong enough to undo the balljoint that's fitted, even with very long poles.  It could do with being on the workshop lift, but that's been occupied for quite some time by a Rover 75 so I just decided to leave that side alone for now.  Here's new and old parts.  I did have to swap the spring-type o-ring from the old balljoint boot to the new one because the new balljoint boot had a rubber o-ring that wasn't strong enough to hold the boot in place.

201903-02.jpg

 

 

These bastards only concede to high levels of heat and violence.

 

Warm up the housing with a blowtorch until it smells like all the grease inside has melted.

 

Wearing welding gauntlets reach for you biggest stilson wrench.

 

Apply it to the nut or the housing for the rubber grease cap and give it a tug.

 

If it doesnt move, more heat to the housing

 

if it still doesnt move a 2ft extension to the stilson handle.

 

if it still doesnt move more heat

 

It will concede I assure you

[vulgalour]

I have a secret weapon, his name is SoC.  He doesn't know it yet, I'm sure he'll be delighted when he finds out he's my back-up plan.

[LightBulbFun]

happy to see things are continuing to go relatively well

 

on the festoon bulb front, are things melting from poor electrical contact, or from the heat of the bulb?

 

if so it might be worth making sure the festoon bulb you have fitted is not too high a wattage for the application (iv seen Festoon bulbs in everything from 5W to 21W)

[vulgalour]

Heat of the bulb.  You can't actually turn the interior light off so if you leave the door open the bulb does get hot enough to melt the plastic of the holder, which is exactly what's happened.  Some sort of heatshield would have fixed it, or the ability to turn the switch to an off position, but I guess BL didn't have that much money available.

[SiC]

Is your HIF carb still running the poppet valves on the throttle disc still? Or did the rebuild one have them replaced with ones without?

[vulgalour]

That is a very good question to which I do not know the answer.

[richardthestag]

These spiteful feckers

 

 

on the throttle butterfly into the inlet manifold.

 

cut the horrible things off and soft solder the disc of the valve to the disc on the throttle butterfly.

 

Lots of plumbers flux, some plumbers solder and a smidge of blowtorch.

 

 

[vulgalour]

I don't think mine has those fitted.  From what I remember the flap is just plain, there's no additional thing on it.

[stuboy]

keep up the good work vulg!

[captain_70s]

keep up the good work vulg!

WHS.

 

Saw this spotted on a FB page t'other day and bloody hell it didn't half attract some vitriol...

[vulgalour]

What, again?  Haters gon hate.

[captain_70s]

What, again?  Haters gon hate.

Usual mixture of:

 

"BL shit" and "owner needs a slap for ruining a classic".

 

I'm not sure how people manage to get so wound up over somebody else's car...

[vulgalour]

That's it, I'm getting some wheelie bin letter stickers so I can put R U I N E D across the bootlid.

[richardthestag]

What, again?  Haters gon hate.

 

ignore them, rise above them. etc

 

I like your passion for what you are doing to the car

 

keep it up mon brave

[vulgalour]

It's okay, I have no fucks to give them.

[captain_70s]

It's okay, I have no fucks to give them.

 

[vulgalour]

Right then, the Daily Driver Challenge got derailed somewhat by a BX but that doesn't mean I haven't used the Princess at all.  I'll be collating the info and experiences from the experiment today and will have a write up on that a bit later.  For now, it's alternator time.  Shiter Danthecapriman very kindly sent me his old Capri alternator to use on the Princess.  We were unsure as to whether or not it was correctly handed but knew it was otherwise a suitable swap.  Worst case, we could always use the good bits from one to fix the bad bits on the other.  This was going to be a little How To on doing the repair, my camera had other ideas unfortunately, so you'll have to use your imagination a little bit.

With both alternators on the desk we could see one was left handed, and one was right handed.  This is to do with where the pivot bolt and adjuster bolt holes are on the casing, they're otherwise identical.  Fortunately, if you unscrew the bolts holding the casing together you can dismantle the whole distributor and swap the casings over.  You also have to desolder three wires that connect the regulator to the commutator ring.  The intention was to use all of the internals from the Capri alternator and just the outer casings from the Princess alternator, this changed when we inspected the various components and ended up Frankensteining one alternator out of the two to make the best of the components available.

This is the Princess alternator internals, and you can see at the front the three wires with white-with-green-dots wire that are soldered to the regulator.  On the Princess alternator, most of the componenents were in reasonable condition, but it was the regulator that was shot.  We cleaned up the commutator surfaces, checked the bearings, and decided against splitting the commutator ring from the casing since it was in better shape than the one in the Capri alternator.  The bearings in the Capri alternator weren't quite as good either, though that's not too surprising since the Princess alternator dates from about 2011, where the Capri one is from the mid-80s, so had a fair few more hours clocked on it.

 

The Capri regulator design was slightly different.  It was the same where it mattered, it was just the quality of parts of soldering, etc. was better overall and the regulator on the Capri didn't have a condenser added on, presumably because there was no need for it as there was on the newer Princess one.  To make things extra confusing I've made sure that this part is photographed from a completely different angle to the Princess one above.

Now I have no more alternator rebuild photographs because the camera ate them all.  Essentially, we used the commutator ring, the main spindle, and the metal casings from the Princess alternator, with the regulator, and Lucas branded plastic cap from the Capri alternator.  We also used the best of the various bolts from both units in rebuilding the new Frankenstein.  The net result is that the alternator now works properly, which is what this was all about.  So a bit thank you to Danthecapriman for providing the spares, and to Mike for basically cracking on and doing the magic soldering work.

With the alternator off the car, I could address a couple of jobs I'd wanted to do for a while and hadn't had a good excuse to get done.  First up was the alternator bracket which has always been a bit crusty looking.  Treated it to wire brush and black caliper paint, it should bake well since it does get quite hot being bolted straight to the block.  Cleaned up the bolts for the bracket, and the wiring loom, while I was in there.  I also cleaned down the grease that had been hiding behind the alternator.

With the wiring loom removed I could unwrap the brittle old electrical tap and use a few cable ties (cheers for that idea, Project Binky!) to keep things where they needed to be for when I re-wrap it.  I also degreased it so the new tape had the best chance of sticking.

Typically, found another bodge in the form of a half-cut wire under some electrical tape that had been added after the rest of the loom was wrapped.  This is the only bit of the wiring loom I've not had off the car (that I know of), so it's hardly surprising there was yet more damage to it.  Mike splice the wire back together with fresh solder and new heatshrink since we didn't have suitable connectors to remake the whole wire.

Again, I'd show you progress but the camera ate a bunch of illustrative images.  Fortunately there was exactly the right amount of loom tape in the drawer to wrap this section, and not a millimetre to spare.  I repainted the steel P-clips that hold the loom to the front of the block and we extended the electronic ignition wire with a new piece so that it could be more tidily incorporated into the loom.  The wiring on the front of this engine needs all the help it can get when it comes to being tidy.

With all that reinstalled, we started the car and tested the alternator to see what it was doing.  We now have a reliable, steady, predictable charge that will keep up with system demands as and when required.  It was good to get everything cleaned up a bit too, removing all the historic grime really helps keep everything look much nicer and means I can see when there's a problem that much easier.  The Lucas branded end cap on the alternator is quite pleasing for reasons I can't explain.

It's still a very messy face ot the engine, it always will be.  There's some cosmetic improvements I can make, I still haven't colour coded the oil filler tube or starter motor to match the new colour scheme and the purple is just starting to bug me now on those.  At some point soon I'll pop them both off and repaint them, they're very easy jobs to do.

Didn't have time to crack on with the brakes today.  I'm not in as much of a rush to sort those as I was since the BX can pick up the slack.  Mike and I are hoping next Monday can be brakes day, providing our schedules don't get all clashy.

[danthecapriman]

Top job fellas! 

Im glad my old alternator came in useful for this, I’m also glad that delightful old Lucas end cap lived to be reused! I don’t know why but I also find things like that nice to keep, it’s a nice little detail that the newer parts lack.

great work on the other bits too, getting things clean & tidy makes all the difference.

[SiC]

I picked up one of these kits at the shows. Not used it yet but possibly worth getting to rebuild your other one if needed?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alternator-Repair-Kit-Rectifier-Regulator-Brushes-Fits-LUCAS-15-16-17-18-ACR/201669312542?hash=item2ef46d801e:g:UkYAAOSw8w1X2TOz

[vulgalour]

The Daily Driver Challenge - Conclusion.

I decided to end the DDC at the point that it was clear the BX would be distracting me from using the Princess every day because it didn't seem fair to do otherwise.  The DDC took place from late November 2018 until early May 2019, a time of year when most forty year old cars are bundled up safe and warm waiting for the show season to begin again.  It was the least ideal time to be using a classic car and likely to be the most challenging, certainly the best way to get a fair estimation of the car's abilities and reliability over that period of time.

The short version for the 24 weeks of the DDC goes like this:

13 weeks of trouble-free boring motoring

1 failure to proceed: warped brake disc.  AA less than useless and refused recovery because I'd had the temerity to break down on the road outside a garage that was closed.

1 failure to proceed that was repaired at the roadside: carburettor issues

Various servicing and minor repairs.

 

The long version is that overall, a car with a reputation for being incredibly unreliable and being asked to drive in all weathers, at all times of day, including in the snow at night, proved itself capable of getting me where I needed to go whenever I needed to go there.  Had I needed to use the car for long distance commuting, I would have done more to prepare the car for use than I did.  Instead, I was asking the car to do between 50 and 100 miles a week, and to be able to go out whenever I needed it to almost every day.  The majority of the mileage was urban only, though there were some longer distance motorway runs and faster A road trips taken as well.  It was used in rush hour on occasion, late night runs, and got caught up in school traffic several times, all of which it coped with perfectly fine.

Repairs were needed.  Mostly this was simply down to parts wearing out, as parts do.  Before the test, a new main earth wire was fitted along with brand new tyres for reliability and safety.  I also used the DDC to highlight any issues I may have overlooked when the car was being used much less, and that meant quite a few small items were replaced that didn't absolutely have to be, things like the reversing light switch (which collapsed after a handful of miles and saw me refitting the original after cleaning it up), the oil pressure switch to cure a minor oil leak, an in-line fuel filter, a new carburettor gasket, a steering column upper bush, and new CV boots.  More serious items required were a lower ball joint, the front wheel bearings, electronic ignition (failed condenser also saw badly burned points), a brake disc, a rebuilt alternator, and some welding to a rear inner arch.  Other than that, a little oil was required since it consumes a small quantity.

Overall, I don't regard the items replaced as being that out of the ordinary for any car of this age and mileage and most of the items were quite old and had done quite a few miles.  At the close of the DDC, the only outstanding issue is the brake rebuild and the reason that hasn't been done is simply a matter of finding the time to strip down and rebuild everything.  I've never done anything with the front brakes in the seven years I've had the car, other than bleeding them, and I imagine previous owners were much the same, mostly because nothing needed to be done until this year.

Would I recommend using a forty year old car every day?  Generally speaking, no.   The problem with an old car is that it's an old car.  Unless you've gone through the whole thing and replaced every consumable item with good quality new, or as good as new, items, you're going to have a bad time.  Parts wear out and you need to be aware that when you press an older car into service you running a greater risk than usual of cascade failure.  I took the chance with this car because I've owned it for a long time and I thought I'd ironed out all the problems I was likely to face.  Many of the parts I've needed have been awkward to acquire, though rarely expensive, and some of the parts have been incorrectly described.  So if I was relying on the car to get me to work and back every day rather than just run me around on my errands most days, my attitude in closing on this experiment would likely be very different.

That said, if you're of the mentality that you want to experience this sort of thing, then go for it.  Just have contingencies in place.  If you're going to use a classic every day for a protracted period of time, it's wise to have a back-up car or someone with a back-up car, that can help you out if you do get stuck.  Also, approach pressing an older car into service like going into a really slow endurance race.  Replacing things like filters and hoses, ignition components, and making sure all your electrical stuff is in good order is very sensible.  Carrying tools and fluids in the boot is also very sensible and, if you can, having spares such as ignition components and belts, is very sensible.  One thing I've learned is that breakdown cover does not always mean breakdown cover, so you have to give yourself a fighting chance of repairing your car yourself to a standard that will get you home.

One positive of the DDC is how much more aware of other road users it's made me.  When you haven't got the driver aids of blind spot monitors and electronic ignition, parking sensors and ABS, you find your driving changes.  You look for and anticipate behaviour you might not otherwise notice.  It makes the act of driving somewhat more tiring as a result because you're concentrating so much more.  However, there were plenty of times that I found myself able to predict bad behaviour from other road users and prevent myself getting into trouble and those are skills I'll be carrying forwards.  I'm not saying driving a classic car will make you a perfect driver, it won't.  What it will do is make you more aware as a driver.  Older cars are less insulated from the outside world too, so I did find I was much more aware of folks on two wheels, and generally speaking people are nicer and behave respectfully towards you.

Now that I've completed the DDC it has proven that I have absolutely no desire to part with the Princess (not that there was any doubt) and that it is quite capable of doing everything I need it to do.  It's proven that I don't need a newer car, that I don't even need a radio, and that it's an affordable form of transport that makes me happy.  If I had to, I could use the Princess as my only car and this experiment has allowed me to get the car in really very good shape overall.  It's not perfect, it's not about to win any shows, and that's fine.  It's a car I can use and that I enjoy to use, and that's all that really matters.

[dozeydustman]

I doff my hat to you Mr V. Having dailied a couple of Scimitars a few years back it was a challenge in the mid-noughties using a then 30 year old car, though I suspect parts availability for the Scim is [marginally] better than the Princess. At least what you have struggled with has been mainly service items which can go on a car of any age.

It's also good that it hasn't had a bad effect on you and that you don't want to part with the car. I think keeping it as a plaything and continuing your sterling efforts making her better and more useable for modern modern motoring is only a good thing.

[MarvinsMom]

On 4/28/2019 at 6:24 PM, vulgalour said:

Heat of the bulb.  You can't actually turn the interior light off so if you leave the door open the bulb does get hot enough to melt the plastic of the holder, which is exactly what's happened.  Some sort of heatshield would have fixed it, or the ability to turn the switch to an off position, but I guess BL didn't have that much money available.

the original interior light on the Mini 1000 has the same issue, the heat from the filament bulb melting the (very thin) plastic cover thing, though the mini bulb holder does come with a sort of switch thing that means it can be turned off!

 

top idea on changing the bulb to an LED thing, may i ask where you got the  LED from?

[vulgalour]

Ended up having to order it from the local motorfactor.  Trying to find a warm LED bulb in an actual shop was quite difficult and I didn't trust trying to get one online.