Shite in Miniature II

[sierraman]

I have a few things that were my dads but they’re difficult to relate to. What will be the valuable stuff in the future? My youngest likes these miniature items that go on shop shelves, I don’t know the specifics - I’m too busy breaking my neck working paying for them 😂. Mini brands I think they’re called, easily lost and popular. Can see people in years to come spaffing a good figure trying to collect them all again in years to come. It’s all a big cycle eh? 

[danthecapriman]

I remember when I was a kid, me and my school friend used to be into diecast vehicles. As well things like Matchbox and Corgi’s current/recent (at the time) stuff we used to hit all the local boot sales, school/church fetes etc etc hunting down older stuff. The absolute prized finds were always the 60’s very early 70’s models. 
Anything that had that quality feel (you know what I mean) with the lovely cast or spun metal wheels and rubber tyres was considered a good score between us. So even then we knew what they were, how good they were and they were desirable. 
Later 70’s stuff was good provided it wasn’t the fantasy type stuff. If you came away with a Whizzwheels Capri mk1 or something like that you’d not done bad. 
Matchbox Kingsize were also a reasonably easy to find win, particularly if it was the early separate tyres types.

At the time you could still buy 1:36 Corgi stuff new, and also the Matchbox Superkings range. So they didn’t show up as much second hand.

Days Gone type stuff was, even then, the absolute pits! We had no interest whatsoever in them.

Now I’m older and wiser(!?) I can still see why those 60’s so called golden era models are the most desirable. They really were absolutely brilliant and so well made in most cases. You got the full range of features, opening doors, boot, bonnet, on the trucks you got various other things like the tilt cab Ford H with its detailed engine and rotating fan. The wheels looked fantastic in metal with rubber tyres. 
Then as the 70’s progressed things got cheap and started to get a bit tacky. 
The Whizzwheels/Speedwheels era castings themselves were generally pretty good, but it was clear the cost cutting was taking hold as features started to disappear. But the biggest pisser on these era models, and they all did it, were the absolutely awful plastic wheels. I hated them as a kid, and I still think they’re awful now. If I ever do a restoration or custom with one the wheels are first for the chop and they won’t be going back on!

As things got to the 80’s with the 1:36 range for Corgi I didn’t take a huge amount of interest really. Some were great but I just never really took to them as a youngster. Even now, I’m not all that bothered. It’s nice to see them, either as originals or custom’s but I just can’t bring myself to hold on to them. There something lacking somehow I just can’t put my finger on. 
There scale Corgi used annoys me too because it’s not an accepted common scale like a lot of other things.

As far as reproducing them goes for the CMC, although I don’t buy any of them, I think they are missing a trick by not expanding into the 70’s range too. 
Look at what’s hot in real 1:1 scale cars - 70’s and 80’s stuff. I’m positive if they did a reproduction Cortina GXL or Capri mk1 for example they’d sell well, to the same people buying the real cars. Vanguard’s are selling well trading on Escorts, Cortina’s etc so the market is there.  
Im not so sure the 1:36 range is quite at that point yet though. As I said, something changed in the time they came from. Maybe in another decade or two they might get their time to shine though.

I think the custom ones are a great idea though. Maybe developing the Whizzwheels range a bit to accept Golden Jacks wheels, and/or just altering them to take the more classic cast or spun wheels. If they design completely new styles of wheels in the spirit of the original ones but that suit the Whizzwheels era models would work in my opinion.

[MiniMinorMk3]

  On 28/01/2025 at 12:47, Datsuncog said:

Or indeed the #212 Road Rover - secretly developed in conjunction with Rover to have ready for the launch of their forthcoming luxury Land Rover, which was then canned at an advanced stage when management got cold feet about the project - as if anyone would ever want a fancy 4x4! What nonsense!

 

 

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That looks like an A40 that's made too many trips to Greggs for some sausage rolls and a steak bake chaser.

[MiniMinorMk3]

I think the 1980s Corgis are rubbish compared to the weighty solid feel of a 1960s Corgi. Even the 1970s Whizzwheels feel much better and more solid than the 80s stuff because they still had a metal base, not some flimsy plastic base that usually cracked if you stood on it. As for the 1/36th scale, why did they choose it, no one else making diecasts did. It is the standard for slot cars. Now there's an idea, just imagine the damage you could inflict on the skirting boards by sellotaping a Scalextric chassis to the bottom of a Mk3 escort van and not letting up when you get to the bend in the track. That's made me think how you can make rubber tyred 1980s Corgis, use the wheels and tyres from Scalextric cars.

By the way, when most 1980s kids get old they will want to buy Star Wars stuff. Who ever owns the rights to them will keep cashing in on making replica Palitoy and Kenna figures.

Check out the estimates on this Star Wars auction that Vectis are holding today, some make the price of an original mint and boxed Corgi look resonable.

Vectis Auctions | Star Wars Spectacular

 

[MiniMinorMk3]

Anyone want to see a Siku coach?

Talking of weighty models, this thing weighs almost 600 grams.

Lots of opening parts, pity about the cracked window

Nice detail on the back showing the passenger facilities and max speed, only 4 stars on Trip Advisor though.

Specifications cast into base, 11.4 litre, 6 cylinder. 206 kw at 2,200 rpm. Max power 280 ps.

It also has a consistant scale with a Siku VW LT28.

Pity the LT28 has lost a door.

 

[sierraman]

  On 28/01/2025 at 14:23, MiniMinorMk3 said:

Anyone want to see a Siku coach?

Talking of weighty models, this thing weighs almost 600 grams.

Lots of opening parts, pity about the cracked window

Nice detail on the back showing the passenger facilities and max speed, only 4 stars on Trip Advisor though.

Specifications cast into base, 11.4 litre, 6 cylinder. 206 kw at 2,200 rpm. Max power 280 ps.

It also has a consistant scale with a Siku VW LT28.

Pity the LT28 has lost a door.

 

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Glorious that is. Proper quality thing. 

[FakeConcern]

Lots of interesting points made about CMC and @Datsuncog is I think right on track with the target market which is people my age (& @eddyramrod) who've just retired. I was lucky enough to retire eight years ago, but I've only just got my first installment of state pension. My kids are grown up and I have money to spend on myself. I like the CMC reproductions, but resisted doing a subscription as quite a few didn't interest me much as a kid and still don't. I have got the Monte Carlo Mini, Mini Countryman, Mangusta and E Type 2+2, all toys I had as a kid and still have, but I wanted brand new as well. I still want to get the Mini Magnifique. Also I don't really like subscriptions generally even for magazines I buy every month, I'd rather have the option to decide.

As regards the larger scale Corgis I always felt that 1/36 was just a bit too big for a toy as they don't fit snugly in a kid's pocket and as said they are not so weighty with a plastic base. As an aside, I always thought the Scalextrics were 1/32?

When Golden Jacks came out, I thought they were great! I was not really a fan of the original spun type wheel with rubber tyres which always looked too narrow and rounded and inset on the model to my eyes. Corgi did start using a much better square shouldered tyre in the late 60s though. I also preferred the plastic Whizzwheels to the spun wheels when they came out, by then I was a bit older and realism probably meant more to me and I thought the wheels on the Cortina GXL looked like Rostyles as they should do! I wasn't even slightly fussed about the speed of the wheel as I never liked racing the cars and always held them as I drove them on the carpet at improbable angles around the bends like a rally car. I thought the Red Spot wheels that predated the plastic ones as first seen on my Roger Clark 3.0 Capri were rubbish, great tyres, but red hub and gold wheel, just why?

[MiniMinorMk3]

  On 28/01/2025 at 15:47, FakeConcern said:

I always thought the Scalextrics were 1/32?

 

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You are right. My memory is getting fuzzy.

[flat4alfa]

  On 28/01/2025 at 14:11, MiniMinorMk3 said:

As for the 1/36th scale, why did they choose it, no one else making diecasts did. It is the standard for slot cars.

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Not wanting to pull up the point, but in case confusion by the reader:

Slot cars:  HO/1:64 -> 1:43 -> 1:32 -> 1:24.  Not 1:36

1:36 scale: Corgi, Matchbox, Guisval, Majorette.  These days Maisto, Kinsmart, Welly

[MiniMinorMk3]

  On 28/01/2025 at 15:47, FakeConcern said:

When Golden Jacks came out, I thought they were great! 

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Me to. The first one I had was the Hillman Hunter, followed by the Mini Marcos, Olds Toronado and the Chevy Camaro. My brother had the Rover and the Rolls-Royce.

[bunglebus]

B case Matchbox arrived in Entertainer while I was working a few shops down - anyone still looking for a Fiesta?

[bunglebus]

My local auction house (Chelmsford Auction Rooms) have some interesting bits tomorrow but I've got an appointment I can't miss

[Datsuncog]

  On 28/01/2025 at 14:11, MiniMinorMk3 said:

I think the 1980s Corgis are rubbish

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Sounds like fightin' talk...

[Split_Pin]

Lots of 1/36 Corgis had a metal base, what I don't understand is why some did and others did not. 

From memory, all but a small batch of MK3 Escorts were all metal.

Jaguar XJS, Renault 11, Opel Senator, Rover Sterling, Honda Prelude, Triumph Acclaim, to name a few.

They definitely weren't rubbish, they just won't suit those who prefer older, pre 1975 1/43 scale products. I'm not sure why they changed the scale but I do vaguely recall an answer a few years ago on here.

Cars like the Renault 11 and later Volvo 740 had lovely detail inside and out and had great play value. I'll admit I was never a fan of the MK3 Transit with brittle flat plastic base but the later recovery vehicle incarnation was a belter.

Compare an 80s Corgi to a similarly scaled Guisval (who did seem to have a small 1/36 range at the same time) and you will instantly see how the Corgi was far superior in terms of accuracy, quality and paint.

 

[sierraman]

Corgi Juniors were a bit lame in the end though. Then again they were priced under Matchbox so I suppose it’s horses for courses. The price point on the smaller stuff went something like this Novacar etc, Corgi Juniors, Majorette, Hot Wheels, Matchbox, Tomica then Siku. 
 

Majorette used to mostly be sold in Morrisons from what I remember? 

[Split_Pin]

I only ever remember seeing Majorette in small shops in holiday towns. Morrisons was still Safeway round my way up until around 25 years ago and they, together with WmLow, who we used when we moved East, were strictly Corgi Juniors.

[andrew e]

Corgi XJS got a plastic base I think at the end? I’ve had a few 1/36 deliveries whilst on holiday and a lovey beige 190 Taxi has appeared, so I will get the camera out at some point. I’m also convinced myself I have that green Castrol metro - but I can’t find it!

[sierraman]

  On 29/01/2025 at 08:37, andrew e said:

Corgi XJS got a plastic base I think at the end? I’ve had a few 1/36 deliveries whilst on holiday and a lovey beige 190 Taxi has appeared, so I will get the camera out at some point. I’m also convinced myself I have that green Castrol metro - but I can’t find it!

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I thought I didn’t have one until I checked in the loft, I’m probably duplicating what I’ve already bought half the time! 

[cms206]

  On 29/01/2025 at 08:22, Split_Pin said:

I only ever remember seeing Majorette in small shops in holiday towns. Morrisons was still Safeway round my way up until around 25 years ago and they, together with WmLow, who we used when we moved East, were strictly Corgi Juniors.

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Majorette for some reason I only ever associate with chemists - both of my local ones as a child sold a full range for some reason!

 

On the subject of Morrisons, Bburago is back again.

[Split_Pin]

I guess the Saab 93 is long out of production, they go for £££s on ebay for some reason.

[sierraman]

I could never warm to the Bburago 1/43 range, I’ve got a couple of absolute minters but they really don’t do much for me at all apart from the Alfa 33 or the 5 series. 

[danthecapriman]

  On 29/01/2025 at 11:46, sierraman said:

I could never warm to the Bburago 1/43 range, I’ve got a couple of absolute minters but they really don’t do much for me at all apart from the Alfa 33 or the 5 series. 

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Same here. They always just seemed cheap and a bit tacky to me.

[RoadworkUK]

Agreed re. Bburago 1/43s. No real advantage over 1:64 Matchbox when they came to detail, and felt less satisfyingly weighty in your hand.

I would have loved Bburago 1/43s to have been-scaled down versions of their 1/18s, with bespoke wheels etc, albeit perhaps with fewer opening features. Would have been a unique proposition at the time.

[ETCHY]

  On 29/01/2025 at 11:05, cms206 said:

Majorette for some reason I only ever associate with chemists - both of my local ones as a child sold a full range for some reason!

 

On the subject of Morrisons, Bburago is back again.

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Oh wow yeah now I recall the Chemist's selling Majorettes probably why I didn't have many as Newsagents on the high street sold Matchbox & had the funky display case in window.

Bloke who owned Newsagents used to sit with you on floor & test the cars ran OK by wheeling them across the floor !

[MiniMinorMk3]

  On 28/01/2025 at 19:12, bunglebus said:

My local auction house (Chelmsford Auction Rooms) have some interesting bits tomorrow but I've got an appointment I can't miss

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I bet those go for peanuts as they don't do internet bidding. I wish I had an auction house local to me that was old school like that.

[MiniMinorMk3]

Here's some King Size and Super Kings from last weeks auction.

Nice Dodge horsey truck that's missing the big decal from the side.

Still has both ramps and all of its tyres.

Dodge Tractor on base of truck...

Articulated Horse Van on trailer.

A couple of metallic red trucks, Ford LTS Tractor on left and Scammell Tipper on right.

K-6 Motorcycle Transporter.

It's missing the rear canopy and I have stuck an earlier Honda in the back. It should have the later one that looks like a CB750.

The base has K-6/11 as this casting was also used for the K-11 Pick-Up Truck (AA Break Down) model.

K-12 Hercules Mobile Crane.

Has extending jib...

and extending footings. Lots of play action with this one.

K-113, as seen on base, is the Military version.

Last we have an Aldi Quattro. Scale is about 1/34.

Not a bad effort shape wise.

Engine detail is good...

but the budget must has been used up by the time they did the plank of a dash.

 

[Split_Pin]

  On 29/01/2025 at 12:04, danthecapriman said:

cheap and a bit tacky to me.

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That's why I love them. The cruder the better. True Shite in Miniature.

The Bburago 1/24s were great. The bodyshell was freakishly strong but everything that was attached to it just fell to bits 😂

I hate to say it as well but if you look on ebay, really nice or MIB early 1/24 Bburagos, especially the 'Hobbies And Toys' branded boxes, are worth a lot more than most equivalent condition cars from the 1960s (unless it's a really rare one) It's because kids either had them when they were current and they fell to bits or mum said too dear (me for both categories!)

[sierraman]

  On 29/01/2025 at 13:05, Split_Pin said:

That's why I love them. The cruder the better. True Shite in Miniature.

The Bburago 1/24s were great. The bodyshell was freakishly strong but everything that was attached to it just fell to bits 😂

I hate to say it as well but if you look on ebay, really nice or MIB early 1/24 Bburagos, especially the 'Hobbies And Toys' branded boxes, are worth a lot more than most equivalent condition cars from the 1960s (unless it's a really rare one) It's because kids either had them when they were current and they fell to bits or mum said too dear (me for both categories!)

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The seventies ones definitely were unbelievably fragile, they’d have not stood up to even the most cursory of play. 🤣

[Datsuncog]

  On 29/01/2025 at 06:57, Split_Pin said:

I'm not sure why they changed the scale but I do vaguely recall an answer a few years ago on here.

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My understanding is that Corgi's changeover to 1/36 scale was linked to their decision to go all-in with a range of models featuring Formula One racing cars - as part of their commitment to faithfully represent many of the teams and drivers on the grid for the 1973/74 season in miniature, the designers found they couldn't make the increasing number of sponsorship decals legible at the usual 1/43 size.

Since negotiations to make and sell the replicas had been surprisingly fraught for Corgi's design team - they were used to gentlemen's agreements and generous cooperation with vehicle manufacturers on all their products, but F1 teams were now starting to make rumblings about licencing payments and royalties - making sure that the intricate sponsors' liveries were reproduced accurately was key to allowing the range to go ahead.

Larger models gave a greater surface area for decals, while market research also indicated that the larger scaled models were perceived to offer better value for money than their traditional 1/43-ish models. It didn't cost any more on the design side, and with Corgi always keen to be seen as innovators, larger models that made domestic and international rivals like Dinky and Solido appear small and less appealing could only be a good thing.

There was previous form for this sort of rescaling too - during the 1960s, new Matchbox mainline offerings had grown upwards in size, causing Corgi to retool a number of their existing Husky lines in the late '60s to be larger, and so retain customer appeal. It's possible that with their core range, Corgi decided to jump first - and indeed, most of the other competing manufacturers did follow, to stay in the game.

As a result, the Ferrari Daytona, introduced the same year in two different racing colours, was tooled in 1/36, and other new passenger car releases such as the Jaguar XJC12, Mercedes 220D and Citroen Dyane followed suit.

Of course, this led to the slightly uncomfortable fact that many older, smaller (but still popular!) castings like the Range Rover Vigilant and Land Rover 109 sat alongside newer, larger castings for quite some years, hobbling any sense of realism that their young customers might have been trying to achieve through their play.

Whatever the arguments for and against might have been (and I'd love to read the boardroom meeting minutes for that period), 1/36 had arrived and it was there to stay for the rest of Mettoy's existence. It resulted in some unusual choices such as the more adult-oriented 'Cars Of The 1950s' range also being modelled in 1/36 - and it's perhaps telling that one of the first things the post-bankruptcy management team did in 1985 was reintroduce the nostalgic Corgi Classics range in the more internationally accepted 1/43 scale, using some of the original 1960s tooling of models like the 1911 Renault.

I still can't find any information on why 1/36 specifically was chosen as the scale for the new range, as there were no comparable toys elsewhere using that scale - but I'd hazard a guess that since Corgi were designing a range of detailed 1/18 scale F1 cars with features such as removable wheels at the same time, it was a relatively simple process to make the more affordable range, featuring some of the same vehicles, at exactly half that size.

I'd also suggest that the Energy Crisis of 1973 may have played a part in changes such as the introduction of plastic bases, with factories being forced into three-day-weeks to deal with power shortages - I understand it costs less to run a plastic injection moulding machine than a diecasting machine, as the temperatures required to melt the media are lower, and plastic bases don't require other energy-intensive processes like tumbling, painting and oven-drying in the way their metal counterparts do.

Not all new Corgi releases from the mid-70s on had plastic bases, but faced with rising costs and a shrinking market, it seems like a reasonable compromise to have made at the time.  Corgi always tried to keep a wide range of price points for their core range - while Juniors were built to sell at a set price, those of larger models varied considerably, but were positioned to mean that nearly any child could save enough to buy themselves something from the range - the Dyane cost much less than the Rolls Royce Corniche, and the Polo was rather cheaper than the Rover 3500 SD1.

I must have a look at some of the old pricelists and see how different they were; doubtless Van Cleemput and his team would have sooner produced nothing but highly detailed models packed full of features as they'd done before, but the state of the parent company finances and changes to the toy market meant that accountants and middle-managers had much more say in what made it onto the shelves, and what price point they were designed for.

I can agree that the Corgi output of the 1970s and 80s was objectively inferior to those innovative and exquisitely designed models of the 1960s - but the like of the Mazda Pickup, Renault 5 Turbo and Escort van were the ones I remember being transfixed by on toyshop shelves at the time - so I guess I'm always going to have a soft spot for them...

 

[danthecapriman]

I think one of my biggest problems with the Corgi 1:36 range was, as @Datsuncog alluded to with the Land Rover bit. They weren’t in scale with much else. So if you wanted to use other vehicles from whoever else as well as Corgi’s you were a bit limited. Although I suspect that might have been part of the reasoning behind choosing 1:36? To make it so you had to get Corgi because it won’t fit with much else? Cynic much!?

Is 1:36 scale used at all/very much nowadays? I can’t say I’ve noticed a huge amount.