Kettle Series - is it really that bad?

[Tartan58]

I know the letter K cannot be written without being followed by the letters O, M, G, H, G & F but is it really all that bad?

 

Since moving to a house with a garage I'm on the look out for a project car to fill it and the bay seems to be littered with cheapish MGs (the rover 25 one whatever that's called?).

To my eye these wee MGs are not a bad looking car and having learnt to drive in a Rover 214SLi it seems like a decent engine (when it works - and we never had any problem with ours in 3 years of ownership, although it was almost new at the time)

 

So in short:

1. How easy are these engines to work on (Bearing in mind my only engine experience is tinkering with Minis but I'm keen to expand on this!!)

2. If I bought a cheap one with the gasket gone is it a nightmare to fix? what other damage might have been done? (again my only experience of HGF was in my Mini which I happily drove a further 300 miles home - was in Holland at the time - and fixed for pennies)

3. Is the 1.4 the best to go for or would I be better with a 1.6 or 1.8 (are they all k-series? - excuse my ignorance) I'm not bothered about performance as I'm mainly looking for something to mess about with in the garage and be pressed into runabout service when the need arises.

[Rod/b]

http://www.streetsafari.com/2011/01/mgj ... ad-gasket/

 

Have a look at this, by MGJohn.

[scooters]

It's an engine group that got a lot more reliable as time went by. Eg I would not countenance a 1996 830 with a kv6 but would happily buy a 75 with a kv6 as it was greatly improved. It depends on the specific model.

[ashmicro]

The Rover 25 MG is the MGZR. Common thinking is that the 1.8 is the "worst". MGJohn's article is a good one.

[dollywobbler]

I don't think they are that bad, but they won't tolerate neglect. People just don't check coolant levels and then cry when things go wrong. There are certainly design issues, but overall, it's a cracking engine. Over 100bhp from a 1.4 was bloomin' perky for the time.

 

They're tricky to change a gasket on because the head bolts hold the entire engine together. You'd be better off going for one that's good to start with I think. Treat it to a coolant change immediately and make sure the bottom of the radiator isn't trying to fall off. That doesn't help...

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

They're tricky to change a gasket on because the head bolts hold the entire engine together. You'd be better off going for one that's good to start with I think. Treat it to a coolant change immediately and make sure the bottom of the radiator isn't trying to fall off. That doesn't help...

 

They're actually pretty straightforward and the crank doesn't fall out or anything - and it's quite a nice engine to work on. Buy one that works, do some maintenance and fix it if and when it goes wrong. The later ones had plastic dowels iirc. If it goes the first time and you're not trying to correct some cooked up, hamfisted fuck up with 4mm ground off the head, you should be alright with the new type gasket and a whisker shaved off the head. These cars are so cheap now that it's not really worth losing sleep over.

 

With Raver 75's, I'd rather have a 1.8 than a 2.0 tbh.

[RobT]

Changing something as simple as the thermostat can be an irritating job. The 1.4 has the thermostat located behind the engine, so getting access when it’s packed into the small space of a Rover 114 engine bay is tricky – might be a bit easier if you’re looking at getting a 25. And successfully bleeding the system of air can be a pain too, I couldn’t get rid of an airlock until I drilled a small hole in the flange of the ‘stat which then sorted it. You can see why they get neglected when such a simple job as this can be a headache. But on the whole the hysteria surrounding these engines gets a bit tiresome.

[Tartan58]

Thanks for the advice guys, I get the point about buying a good one rather than a cheap one that's needing fixed up unfortunately that puts it a bit out of my budget for a cheap runabout (if I'm after an MG version that is) - still will keep a look out, I guess the prices still have some way to fall yet although the supply of decent ones will probably run out quickly with their attractiveness to boy racers.

 

I still have a hankering after a Rover 25 BRM but I guess due to rarity the prices will remain higher.

[dollywobbler]

The BRMs seem remarkably undervalued at the moment to be honest. I've seen them changing hands well under a grand. Insane for the performance and lurid seats on offer.

 

Pimp-tastic!

[ashmicro]

This is less than weigh-in money at the present moment.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Rover-20 ... 4cfe12b5bc

[Tartan58]

Love that interior - that's the only reason I want a BRM!

 

I did once have a desire to create a BRM version of the previous generation 200 series transplanting one of those interiors and respraying the car with the green and orange livery!

[Guest]

As someone said, "Don't believe the hype"

All you hear about are the ones that cook themselves which is probably after woeful neglect.

How many posts on forums do you see stating "It's been great. No problem"?

There's no mileage in praise!

[dollywobbler]

There is a definite design flaw. Was speaking a neighbour with a Freelander and that's had two head gaskets replaced, despite them being very diligent with their checking. However, it's certainly true that the K gets an unfair rep. No-one seems to rant and rave about the fact that the PSA XUD is quite good at blowing head gaskets - presumably because it isn't a British engine, and us Brits much prefer complaining bitterly about how things WE do are shit.

[Spiny Norman]

I guess it boils down to whether or not you want the car the engine's bolted onto or not, a bit like the Alfa TS engines as fitted to the 147/156 etc. Yes, there is an issue with cambelts needing to be changed every 3 years or allegedly the engine will go bang, but it you like the cars you'll put up with it.

 

I like the Rover 75 a bit, and the MG ZT a lot, but after having first hand experience of a Rover engine going pop I just couldn't bring myself to spend any more than banger money on one, and regard it as a throw-away to be disposed of when it boiled over. I once had a Rover turbo and before I bought it I researched all the pitfalls and I checked, and yes there was a bill for the "new, super-duper Land Rover-spec gasket" complete with the higher spec dowels etc, and it had all been done within the last couple of years.

 

It all looked spiffing right up to the day only about 2000 miles later when it went pop and started spewing oil into the header tank so fast I could see the red coolant turn brown as the engine boiled over. It also filled one of the cylinders with coolant, so starting it up afterwards was interesting.

I didn't even bother fixing it, and swore that would be the last Rover engined car I would ever buy.

[Station]

Most of the knowledge is recycled internet forum info unfortunately.

 

Get an MLS gasket on an unwarped head (not overheated 100 times) and a block that has got intact liners and it won't HGF - HGF leads to problems which are more difficult to rectify, it's best to nip it in the bud before this happens.

K-seal works with K-series really well, don't listen to nutters claiming it somehow blocks 2cm+ wide coolant galleries, also claiming as a 'bodge'. Some people don't want to do a HG change in the middle of winter, or at all.

I found head gasket is easier to change on the MGF than the Rover's, access is excellent through the rear engine panel, as is the cambelt through the wheel arch.

Don't listen to those who have never touched one claiming they're rubbish and MX-5's handle better, MGF's handle just as well.

You can get them for 300 quid upwards, mostly thanks to HGF fear and top-gear badge snob cockends.

200 BRM's are absolutely ace, lots of linear power from VVC engine and Torsen LSD diff, and dat amazing red interior.

[scooters]

I agree that there is a good deal of urban myth a bout these. Probably started with the kv6 in the 800...previous v6 had been Honda. To save money Rover made parts of the engine...see aronline ....out of toffee crisp this resulted in many many engine replacements under warranty and did nothing for the reputation the company had got for shonky build quality in black days...despite the fact that several half decent cars had been made since and build quality was much better. The 800 at the time was the best selling execbarge in the UK so the engine replacements were bad news as everyone heard about it from irate directors and fleet managers.

Add to this the MGF problems...once again...usually due to poor maintenance and any engine located in the middle of the car needs to be carefully maintained....however, the damage had been done by then.

 

I've had several k series engines and whilst not they are as robust as a douvrin or a Volvo redblock they are refined, efficient, powerful and economical...just don't expect to ignore service intervals....a bit like Porsche!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I'm loving the unintended (?) puns in this thread!

 

overall, it's a cracking engine.

 

I guess it boils down to whether or not you want the car the engine's bolted onto or not

 

FWIW, I agree that there is a bit of hype to the situation, but, while I like the luxoshiteness of Rovers, I don't think I'd buy one as a main/serious car. No point when you can buy e.g. a top-spec Primera or Xantia or whatever that'll need much less attention. An MGF, however, may make sense as a 'fun' second car.

[dollywobbler]

The MGF is a bit different. They really knackered up the install on that - things like the thermostat allowing freezing cold water from the front-mounted rad to come rushing into the now-hot engine, creating all manner of lovely thermal shock. Yet the Lotus Elise doesn't get derided in the same terms, despite the same engine mounted in the same place... Perhaps people just expect a Lotus to be a bit shit?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I guess it may be because Lotus only managed to sell one of them, and that was to Datuk Satay Piri-Piri of Proton Cars who would be reluctant to tell us more about his experience.

[Station]

Less HGF on Elise' because of lack of use as a daily runner.

You can get a second thermostat which prevents the thermoshock thing, but water doesn't return to engine through radiator as freezing, more luke warm (I checked ).

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

MGF's are just a bit Gay.

 

Raver 75's though, £400 and it rides like a Phantom from your leather cocoon whilst you look like your Dad driving it. That's a good enough reason to buy.

[RoadworkUK]

Get a KV6; two Kettles for the price of (probably less than) one!

[AnthonyG]

I think the 1.8 Turbos are the most troublesome one, and as DW points out, cooling is pretty marginal regardless of engine in the MGF.

 

The families' had a couple of early 1400s in R8 214s with no problems, I had a 2.0 KV6 in a 75 for a year and a half with no trouble either.

[Lankytim]

I think the K series used by lotus wasn't made by Rover, but by Lotus themselves. They took alot more care in the castings e.t.c. and got much btter reliability out of them. I could be totally wrong on that score however.

 

IMHO the K is a great engine, the biggest problem with them is the marginal cooling systems Rover seemed to use at the time. Any loss of coolant allows the engine to overheat which they tend not to like. Make sure the cooling system is tip-top and things will be fine!*

[M'coli]

... This I have always found interesting...

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/08 ... s-it-tick/

[Cavcraft]

... This I have always found interesting...

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/08 ... s-it-tick/

 

'Dave Cooling'

[cort16]

He says the k is a better engine than the v-tec in the S2000. It may be better designed in theory but how many S2000 motors have gone pop?

[cms206]

Kettle series you say?

 

My boss runs two P-reg K-series powered 416 Tourers as his daily drivers. He's owned P472 XDS from about 18 months old and other than frankly astonishing levels of grot in some seriously unusual places, it's done nearly 240,000 miles. In fairness, the head gasket did fail... at 192k. From memory the other, P335 KOA, isn't far behind - over 200k anyway.

 

He's got six R8s in total, and three 75s. Quite possibly mental, but maintainance is the key...

[Station]

Found out today Skoda 1.3 pushrod engines go through head gaskets that make the K-series seem like an air conditioning unit.

It's a wet liner engine as well.

[Timewaster]

^^^^ That reminds me of the old piss take we had working at the car spares place.

 

"Would you like a Head Gasket with that Skoda thermostat sir?"

 

Most people would just give you a funny look and leave.

When they came back for a head gasket a fortnight later, they wouldn't look you in the eye