Insurance for young 'uns

[bigstraight6]

My oldest boy is 17 at the end of January, so he can start learning to drive so me having sleepless nights worried about him on his Piaggio Typhoon scooter getting to and from his apprenticeship shouldn't be for too much longer! Anyway, with this in mind I have been offered a nice little non-turbot '94 Golf diesel for £400, perfect tough as old boots first car which even meets with his approval, until a bit of trawling on insurance comparison websites were suggesting premiums of about £5000 This car is no road rocket, seems ludicrous to me. My first car at 17 was a 2500cc Ford Zodiac, and I paid £160 to insure it third party fire and theft, mind you that was 26 years ago!

 

I might look into registering the car in my name and taking out a policy with him a a named driver, has anyone else about these parts done anything similar?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

The mind boggles. I refuse to play the game. Trade policy, classic insurance or, if all else fails, Polish/Latvian plates FTW.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

FWIW, I am 29 and, while living in the city centre, Sheffield is hardly the capital of car crime and insurance fraud. I'd say I'm an average/below-average risk. Despite a full NCD without any claims (not even non-fault), clean licence, and a rather pedestrian car, I am getting quoted upwards of two grand for a "traditional" policy. They can stick it where the sun don't shine.

[Cheggers]

Just going through the same with Little Miss Cheggers...comfortably over a grand to insure a 1.4 Clio

 

Be careful with the "named driver" ploy as insurance companies are really starting to clamp down on it, though I'm not sure how they're supposed to prove who is the main driver?? - Also, if he's not the main policyholder, he'll not accrue any NCB, which can make quite a difference in the first few years.

 

And to think I was paying £140 TPF&T on my first car - A mk3 Cortina 1.6 GXL. 1982 insurance prices FTW!!!

[Cheggers]

FWIW, I am 29 and, while living in the city centre, Sheffield is hardly the capital of car crime and insurance fraud. I'd say I'm an average/below-average risk. Despite a full NCD without any claims (not even non-fault), clean licence, and a rather pedestrian car, I am getting quoted upwards of two grand for a "traditional" policy. They can stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

Jaysus!!...The last "proper" car I had was a Saab 9-5 2.3T - £400 fully comp (42 at the time, 3 points, 8 years NCB, leafy Berkshire).

[cobblers]

while living in the city centre, Sheffield is hardly the capital of car crime and insurance fraud. I'd say I'm an average/below-average risk.

 

 

FYI, postcodes S1-3, 5, 7-8 are in the highest risk categories of anywhere. See here. I certainly wouldn't want to park a vehicle in any of them, and it seems that you've had a fair bit of aggro in the time you've been there (mirrors kicked off, windows broken etc).

 

I lived in bloody HULL for 2 years, parked in HU7 (The worst area of the worst town in the UK) and didn't have one bit of bother.

 

 

Back on topic, My sister is coming up for 17 and she's also getting stupid quotes like these. She's wanting a mk2 golf or something and even a 1.3cl is looking at costing 2k, and that is after adding every OAP we know as a named driver, and a 3k mileage limit etc. I've not looked into classic insurance for her yet though.

 

I did the named driver thing when I was 17, well actually CIS had a loophole where you could insure a car for "any" driver. They phased that out a few years ago - My mate got very lucky, he was driving round in his "mum's" 106 XSi, put it into a wall. Police came, breathalysed him etc and let him off because there was diesel on the road. He got the car transported home on the insurance supplied breakdown cover, and it was only after then that he realised they had removed the "anyone" part of the policy at renewal time, and he had been driving uninsured for 4 months!

 

EDIT Shit, that was actually 6 years ago. I feel old!

[Split_Pin]

I can understand your frustration but what you are suggesting in terms of your son is called 'fronting' and is illegal as far as I know.

 

I'm 32, keep the car on a drive, clean licence, 10 years ncb and they still want 600 for my car!

[Spiny Norman]

Insurance for teens is horrendous these days, largely due to the unfortunate statistic which says there's a 1 in 4 chance of junior having a smash in the first 12 months of driving, and when you consider the financial implications of chucking a Corsa into the scenery at speed it's surprising they can get insurance at all.

Worth shopping around though, and stay away from the online comparison sites, the insurers on there don't want that sort of business. Do it the old fashioned way and get on the blower to some brokers and investigate some of the policies where you pay by the mile or restrict use after dark.

 

Also putting yourself as the 'keeper' and having Junior as a named driver is a no-no. As IainL says, it's classed as fraud and they're well onto it. Doesn't take a genius to cross reference the fact that a 40-something with a good driving record has suddenly acquired a second car with a 17 year old as a named driver on it.

 

Best bet is to get junior onto the insurance ladder as cheaply as possible and hope he keeps his nose clean long enough to accrue some NCB which will bring the premium down after a year or two. A reduction of 20-30% on a premium of £2000 is well worth having.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

On topic bit: the cheapest way to get NCD is to get insurance in their name in another EU country, then find an insurer that will honour it here (not all do it, but quite a few do). As for driving in the meantime, I don't like the "main driver" bollocks. It is deliberately ambiguous and you're only a decent lawyer away from being convicted for fraud, even if you are genuinely doing things that way. However, I suppose things are easier if you live at the same address with the young driver. Just make sure to actually use said car. "Main driver" means whoever does most miles in the car. E.g. if dad has to commute 50 miles each way and he drives the son's car to work twice a week, the son can do up to 199 miles spread across the other 5 days in the week and still not be the main driver.

 

while living in the city centre, Sheffield is hardly the capital of car crime and insurance fraud. I'd say I'm an average/below-average risk.

 

 

FYI, postcodes S1-3, 5, 7-8 are in the highest risk categories of anywhere. See here. I certainly wouldn't want to park a vehicle in any of them, and it seems that you've had a fair bit of aggro in the time you've been there (mirrors kicked off, windows broken etc).

 

Last time I checked (although it may have been a while), Sheffield had the least crimes per 100,000 of population of any major city in England. Traffic flows pretty well and I think there aren't too many accidents, either. The likelihood of vandalism or theft from a car, which indeed is above average in the area, although not extreme (I started parking on a side street 100 metres away and, fingers crossed, haven't had any bother since) should not influence a third party premium. Indeed, I've played around with excess levels, and it seems that the theft/own-damage premium is about 10% of the value of the car, in this case £100 to a grand (i.e. zero excess is £70 more than one of £650) . That only leaves about £1,900 unaccounted for, and still doesn't explain why a trade TPFT policy allows you to insure an unlimited amount of (sub-£5k each) cars parking on the same street for £650.

 

(multiple edits: my POSTIN SKILZ tonight are awful)

[Felly Magic]

Doing a course such as Pass Plus can knock premiums down a fair few quid too

[Pete-M]

Insurance post codes are insanely badly grouped.

 

Take Liverpool post codes (A is good, F is disaster) anything over a D* they tend to ask for motorbikes to be locked in a garage - same applies to cars in some areas.

 

L Liverpool

1-21 . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Refer

22 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . F *

23, 29, 34, 38, 40 . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . D *

24-28, 30, 32-33, 35-36 . . . . . . . . . . . . E *

31, 37 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . C

39 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . B

 

I live in L12 - which is a pretty good suburban area, yet my insurance is the same as someone from Norris Green, Croxteth, Toxteth or the City Centre, yet Huyton (three miles away, some mega-rough bits) is in a better group. It appears to be easier for the insurance companies to chuck 80% of the city together. I know of one car that has been stolen near my house in the last 20 years.

[outlaw118]

Just been through this with my 2nd cousin, just passed his test, £3700 to insure 1.1 Shitron Sexo.

[Minimad5]

Don't ask

 

Ironically i was talking about insurance today with a fellow work colleague

and he described it spot-on "Legalised Robbery"

There should be some sort of 'cap' on how much a young driver can be charged, as i know many people who have held a Full UK drivers licence for more than 2 years

But have not driven due to the cost of insurance.

 

Ahh well, back to ringing up companies !!

[Captain Slow]

FWIW, I am 29 and, while living in the city centre, Sheffield is hardly the capital of car crime and insurance fraud. I'd say I'm an average/below-average risk. Despite a full NCD without any claims (not even non-fault), clean licence, and a rather pedestrian car, I am getting quoted upwards of two grand for a "traditional" policy. They can stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

 

I'm not remotely surprised. I was staggered that Peter James touched me at 20 in my Montego 2.0HL - I'm in one of the postcode areas cobblers mentions in his quote below, no NCB, insured as on the road (we have 3 cars here and 2 drives, so whoever's last in is on the road) yet in my own name it's setting me back £783.34. 'Tis TPFT, and Peter James stopped doing that for under 21s the day after I took mine out though. And there's no typo, that is a three figure sum at twenty.

 

 

 

FYI, postcodes S1-3, 5, 7-8 are in the highest risk categories of anywhere. See here. I certainly wouldn't want to park a vehicle in any of them, and it seems that you've had a fair bit of aggro in the time you've been there (mirrors kicked off, windows broken etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an aside Luxobarges-are-us, where are you? I'm about 2 miles from J35 on the M1.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I live in the lower part of the city centre, just behind the Leadmill.

 

We should arrange a local meet with Tone, Claypole and anyone else from around the area sometime in the new year!

[Rod/b]

The other thing to remember with fronting is the potential lack of cover. Aside from the fraud aspect there's the issue that if Jr gets involved in something nasty, and the insurance company subsequently cancel cover once the claims come in on the basis that the policy was fraudulently acquired, then Jr also potentially finds himself on a charge of driving without valid insurance.

[Richard]

I don't know if it's pub talk, but I've heard that having an experienced second driver on your policy brings the price down a bit.

[fiatdaft]

No it's true,it can.

[ashmicro]

I don't know if it's pub talk, but I've heard that having an experienced second driver on your policy brings the price down a bit.

 

 

Troo dat. Katie's insurance came down quite a bit with me as a named driver (she's 27 I'm 39 next month)

[Cavcraft]

I don't know if it's pub talk, but I've heard that having an experienced second driver on your policy brings the price down a bit.

 

It certainly was true but they're getting wise to it now. Also if they discover the young driver is not the main driver then you're in the brown stuff and let's be honest, they're going to do everything they can to get out of paying a claim.

[fiatdaft]

Apparently a woman is better than a man in this circumstance.

 

 

They are doing/have done away with that rule earlier this year.

[Cavcraft]

Yep, they did away with it by charging extra for birds rather than reducing it for lads.

[cobblers]

Yeah, I've got my mum and nan on my policy. I'm 25 and will have 7 years NCB in a few weeks, but adding them still took something like £80 off (which is about 20%!)

 

They might want to drive the van one day, who knows.

[Rover414]

Insurance post codes are insanely badly grouped.

 

Take Liverpool post codes (A is good, F is disaster) anything over a D* they tend to ask for motorbikes to be locked in a garage - same applies to cars in some areas.

 

L Liverpool

1-21 . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Refer

22 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . F *

23, 29, 34, 38, 40 . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . D *

24-28, 30, 32-33, 35-36 . . . . . . . . . . . . E *

31, 37 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . C

39 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . B

 

I live in L12 - which is a pretty good suburban area, yet my insurance is the same as someone from Norris Green, Croxteth, Toxteth or the City Centre, yet Huyton (three miles away, some mega-rough bits) is in a better group. It appears to be easier for the insurance companies to chuck 80% of the city together. I know of one car that has been stolen near my house in the last 20 years.

 

I'm glad someone else noticed this, I live in Toxteth (not Dingle, despite what people may say) and the bit I live in is hardly any trouble at all yet everyone assumes that because one part of Toxteth is full of idiots and so on it all must be like this. I'm a bit baffled as to why Speke is not in the "Refer" section too as the vast majority of that area is shit.

 

A couple of years back a family member had a 2k quote for a Ford Fiesta 1.1 Mk2, it's bizarre really.

[warren t claim]

Where you live shouldn't matter if you only insure third party but it does.

[fiatdaft]

Third party can be almost as expensive as fully comp because you are seen as more of a risk.

[Split_Pin]

I just put my own renewal quote up by telling the insurance company I just got married

 

Plus I always like to have Pops_L on the insurance and that added £16 to the annual premium. He has held a full clean licence since the 1960's and no -claims bonus stretching back to nineteen-oatcake.

 

Also, I dont understand these things:

 

Old Vectra LS 2.0 costs £300 with 3 'clean drivers' (me, wife and dad)

Old Corsa 1.0 with a few modifications costs £400 with 2 drivers (me, wife)

Astra Coupe 1.8 with a lot of modifications only costs £250?

 

Stumped.

[Cavcraft]

I just put my own renewal quote up by telling the insurance company I just got married

 

Plus I always like to have Pops_L on the insurance and that added £16 to the annual premium. He has held a full clean licence since the 1960's and no -claims bonus stretching back to nineteen-oatcake.

 

Also, I dont understand these things:

 

Old Vectra LS 2.0 costs £300 with 3 'clean drivers' (me, wife and dad)

Old Corsa 1.0 with a few modifications costs £400 with 2 drivers (me, wife)

Astra Coupe 1.8 with a lot of modifications only costs £250?

 

Stumped.

 

Vectra: quite easy to steal.

Corsa B: can be opened with a slice of bacon and started with a paracetemol.

Astra: Better security.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Third party can be almost as expensive as fully comp because you are seen as more of a risk.

 

There is no explanation. They do it because they can. The ABI is a fucking cartel and there's no two ways about that.

Fully comp with a large excess is cheaper than TPFT, but it still pointlessly changes massively between locations (even if their risk is negligible if not zero in the case of most older stuff). I can understand paying more than someone who lives in the sticks and can drive for an hour without coming across another car, but this has gotten completely silly and it has to stop.

 

The ECHR ruled against insurers using gender as a risk factor, but the bastards are still using marital status as one, despite the fact that it obviously discriminates against those of us who are single as well as, more importantly, the minorities who don't conform to 'traditional' behaviours (e.g. gays, the polyamorous, Buddhist monks and so on).

[fiatdaft]

Still cheaper here than holland and germany that i know off,so is road tax and petrol.