Bus Shite

[mk2_craig]

14 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

They were fucking shite. And anything that needs a fucking information booklet to help learn to use it is a major warning sign.

Wasn't there a statement somewhere about good design not needing explanation?

Probably really good for motorway and inter-urban work but utterly fucking appalling when tasked with moving through narrow gaps in estate caused by cunty parking.

Ideally one wants to be controlling speed with brakes as opposed to a river dance like bit of footwork to balance a temperamental transmission with an on\off clutch system.

What was the point of them then? Fuel economy? 

[Zelandeth]

8 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

A comparatively floppy structure mated to short- travel suspension- with relatively high un-sprung mass. 

The wheels being several inches smaller than they used to be in the interest of saving both weight and cost doesn't help either.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

5 hours ago, mk2_craig said:

What was the point of them then? Fuel economy? 

I think it was something to do with that as well as emissions and a Government grant.

Can't remember now though.

[cms206]

... and the final day was yesterday.

First stop, Northumberland Park with a colleague to collect BYD Enviro 400EVs Ee38 & Ee39 to go to Hants & Dorset Trim at Eastleigh for refurbishment; these are the first of 12 which will end up at Waterloo (and allegedly eventually at New Cross) for the forthcoming Bakerloop service BL1, in a chocolate brown version of the Superloop livery - you heard it here first.

Not much to see outside at Eastleigh, with a handful of former 358-allocated MEC-class Citaros for Oxford and SE287, another of the 170-batch of ZF sneezymatic Enviro 200s now refurbished and converted to Allison transmission.

Steed for the way back was freshly outshopped MCV-bodied Volvo B5LH hybrid MHV53; these also have a variant of i-Shift automated manual transmission too, as I think all B5LHs have. I'm a big fan of the type though this was my first with MCV bodywork. It was returning to Northumberland Park.

... and that draws to a close this three week stint. Not sure when I'll be back - I think possibly October, but nothing in stone yet.

Got home at stupid o'clock last night, back to normality tomorrow.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

4 all u driverz, innit:

https://www.route-one.net/news/union-coach-and-bus-drivers-can-refuse-to-work-in-extreme-heat/

[Remspoor]

On 18/07/2025 at 18:24, Leyland Worldmaster said:

4 all u driverz, innit:

https://www.route-one.net/news/union-coach-and-bus-drivers-can-refuse-to-work-in-extreme-heat/

So air con does not work? Southern Spain often get outside temps but drivers (and passengers) stay cool because of air con.

[jon.k]

I was pretty pleased to get a ride on this today when it was being used as a shuttle bus. The driver said that it’s in regular use on schools and other trips too. 

[Gaffer]

Not quite buses but a couple years ago I got started with one of the councils maintaining the aircon on their bin lorries as the union had stepped in and said the aircon had to work or they could refuse to take the truck. Of course out of 30+ only a handful worked.

We’ve been in there every year keeping on top of them but a new batch of trucks is due soon, I’ve heard rumoured to be without aircon so the drivers can’t complain and knock them when it fails.

[N19]

There seemed to be a phase where a/c on buses was always spot on if you sat upstairs, with the big unit just above the staircase which fed slots along the length of the top deck. I assume it wasn't fitted to the bottom deck due to the doors opening and closing all the time. Then in the late 2010s it seemed to never be repaired and became pointless.

[Asimo]

 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

4 hours ago, Remspoor said:

So air con does not work? Southern Spain often get outside temps but drivers (and passengers) stay cool because of air con.

There's a PCV and LGV Driver shortage. It's an employees market.

It seems to me the UK bus industry hasn't moved on from situations mentioned up-thread- y'know the Engineering Manager of a well known operator not specifying Power Steering because tyre wear reasons...

I would imagine that if operators wish to continue to operate buses and have passengers use them, the rolling stock probably needs to be comfortable and safe.

The corporates have the resources to make this happen- yet many new vehicles outside London lack features such as:

Tinted Windows

Cab Air Conditioning

Saloon Air Conditioning 

White Roofs.

The above have formed part of the TfL Contract Specification for about 20 years!

So the passengers are being cooked by the sun; engine and gearbox and hot air is being blown around the interior by ineffective hopper vents.

This is why some passengers pass out. Yes. It happens.

I don't believe anyone is asking for sybaritic fucking luxury... drivers and passengers** are asking for thermal comfort.

To anyone with the whole "Two Yorkshire Men" vybz... consider this:

The maximum temperature for transporting livestock is 30°C. So arguably if temperatures exceeding these are to be found in the cab, that's not a comfortable workplace temperature, is it?

It won't be a box of chocolates for the passengers either!

In today's litigation heavy 'society' I wonder whether the reason for the linked article might be something to do with risks that haven't assessed? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D.E]

 

[bramz7]

Went to Alton bus rally today. I am not a bus person per se, but I am, as a few of us are, into everything with an engine and wheels to varying degrees. 

Still odd to see SLF Darts and Solos(!) in preservation. I had a ride on the Solo and it was velour central (even the roof). 

 

[Snipes]

I don't know what it is but something like that '06 Stagecoach still looks fairly "modern" to me, for a bus anyways. 

There's probably a good two generations of bus that have come and gone since '06 and I paid them no attention whatsoever. 

[bramz7]

It's a Dart SLF with Plaxton bodywork. There were loads and loads around here in various configurations, even some Super Darts which sounded like angry 6 cylinder robots. 

I think there are a handful left within Stagecoach at the moment but they must all surely be on borrowed time. 

[quicksilver]

On 17/07/2025 at 16:52, cms206 said:

MEC-class Citaros for Oxford

 

That's a surprise as Oxford have been rapidly getting rid of their native Citaro fleet, only a handful are left now and their days must be numbered.

[Remspoor]

On 19/07/2025 at 21:18, 83C said:

I don’t know what it’s like these days but towards the end of my days in the bus industry if we’d suggested that A/C was a good idea for both staff and passenger comfort we’d have been laughed out of the depot. The ex-London ALX400s with cab cooling had it disabled on arrival on the basis that if it didn’t work we couldn’t refuse to take other vehicles that didn’t have it.

That sounds like  a lack of maintenance, to save money. I can understand then unions stance if that is the case.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

12 hours ago, Remspoor said:

That sounds like  a lack of maintenance, to save money. I can understand then unions stance if that is the case.

 

[cms206]

15 hours ago, quicksilver said:

That's a surprise as Oxford have been rapidly getting rid of their native Citaro fleet, only a handful are left now and their days must be numbered.

Only going by what I was told - these are the 65-plates off the 358.

[quicksilver]

2 hours ago, cms206 said:

Only going by what I was told - these are the 65-plates off the 358.

They're a bit newer than Oxford's own 56/57-plates but still pretty old. I suspect they might be going to Thames Travel or Carousel Buses in High Wycombe rather than the Oxford city fleet as there is little need for diesel buses or single-deckers there.

[SunnySouth]

On 19/07/2025 at 23:41, Leyland Worldmaster said:

…

The corporates have the resources to make this happen- yet many new vehicles outside London lack features such as:

Tinted Windows

Cab Air Conditioning

Saloon Air Conditioning 

White Roofs.

The above have formed part of the TfL Contract Specification for about 20 years!

So the passengers are being cooked by the sun; engine and gearbox and hot air is being blown around the interior by ineffective hopper vents.

…

And then you get “decisions” like this:

 Stagecoach’s new livery - yup, allover dark blue. On a fleet that tends to be pretty ‘basic’ in terms of spec; no aircon/cooling, or indeed much else. You just despair at the fact that multiple people, presumably all well paid, not only “designed” that but also agreed and signed it off, and nobody involved had the common sense to observe that - apart from it looking lazy, half arsed and utterly dreadful from a stylistic viewpoint - buses are grim in hot weather at the best of times and painting them allover dark blue is not going to be a help.

Doh! 🙄

[quicksilver]

Saw my first Stagecoach in that new livery a couple of weeks back. It looked really dull and that was in bright sunshine so at night or in fog it must be nearly invisible. GR8 for road safety.

[artdjones]

It's got to be better than magenta and turquoise swirls.

[SunnySouth]

6 minutes ago, artdjones said:

It's got to be better than magenta and turquoise swirls.

I didn’t mind Barbie, in all honesty! Certainly of it’s time, but it highlighted that First back then were trying to break away from the pack - their buses were genuinely very high spec at a time when most operators were still at bench seats and bargain basement trim standards! The contrast between a late 90s “Barbie” spec Dart and a Stagecoach equivalent, for example, was stark!

[Leyland Worldmaster]

15 minutes ago, SunnySouth said:

Stagecoach’s new livery - yup, allover dark blue. On a fleet that tends to be pretty ‘basic’ in terms of spec; no aircon/cooling, or indeed much else. You just despair at the fact that multiple people, presumably all well paid, not only “designed” that but also agreed and signed it off, and nobody involved had the common sense to observe that - apart from it looking lazy, half arsed and utterly dreadful from a stylistic viewpoint - buses are grim in hot weather at the best of times and painting them allover dark blue is not going to be a help.

Doh! 🙄

I saw this livery for the first time on a route that serves the countryside- including lanes in fairly dense woodland settings.

I wonder if those responsible fancied that colour on their jam jar and believed it would translate well to an ADL Enviro 200 in the middle of nowhere on a dark winters evening...

[Leyland Worldmaster]

3 minutes ago, SunnySouth said:

I didn’t mind Barbie, in all honesty! Certainly of it’s time, but it highlighted that First back then were trying to break away from the pack - their buses were genuinely very high spec at a time when most operators were still at bench seats and bargain basement trim standards! The contrast between a late 90s “Barbie” spec Dart and a Stagecoach equivalent, for example, was stark!

Yes, I remember some of their fleet boasting Air Conditioning and Double Glazing! 

[SunnySouth]

5 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

I saw this livery for the first time on a route that serves the countryside- including lanes in fairly dense woodland settings.

I wonder if those responsible fancied that colour on their jam jar and believed it would translate well to an ADL Enviro 200 in the middle of nowhere on a dark winters evening...

Their purchase by new US owners was swiftly followed by a decision to rid themselves of all of their heritage fleet assets, something which thankfully was swiftly reversed after a small number of vehicles were disposed of, so my assumption is that the same cost cutting drive might have resulted in a decision to move away from bright multicoloured liveries requiring expensive and time consuming paintjobs every time a panel gets bent, with the idea being to use a single colour and make things a lot quicker and easier? Unfortunately I don’t think they chose that colour particularly well. I may be wrong of course, but it would seem to make sense.

[quicksilver]

4 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

I saw this livery for the first time on a route that serves the countryside- including lanes in fairly dense woodland settings.

I wonder if those responsible fancied that colour on their jam jar and believed it would translate well to an ADL Enviro 200 in the middle of nowhere on a dark winters evening...

Those responsible were probably the same geniuses who decided that Telecom vans - you know, the ones that are often parked in hazardous places in bad weather - shouldn't be bright yellow any more and it would be a much better idea to paint them an invisible grey.

[SunnySouth]

12 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Yes, I remember some of their fleet boasting Air Conditioning and Double Glazing! 

Indeed they had forced air ventilation (blowers) and, as you say, double glazing, as well as the sort of individual seats which we nowadays take for granted but were by no means the standard thing back in the 90s, plenty of buses were still being built with traditional bench seats.  The pink/purple/turquoise colour scheme, whilst a bit on the controversial side, was clearly intended to be another break from the dull norm, and certainly as an interior it did look rather cool and a bit ‘luxe’ compared to grey panels or that awful fake carpet-style trim that a lot of stuff was plastered with at the time!

[TooManyPeopleMovers]

I drive buses in Wellington, New Zealand, and I was lucky enough to have a decent holiday in the UK last year (Glasgow/Edinburgh/Manchester/Portsmouth/London). Of course while I was there, I geeked out over all the buses. 
 

Something that struck me was how basic the specifications for driver comforts seem for buses in the UK: I drive Alexander Dennis Enviro200XLB’s, a stretched Enviro200 with a steering tag axle:

We have air conditioning for the cab and the saloon and a really great air suspension Isringhausen seat (and the ADL’s have an excellent cab heater). 

Yet on equivalent ADL Enviro200’s that I saw in the UK, most seemed to have no air conditioning whatsoever, and (really uncomfortable looking) Chapman non-suspension drivers seats.

In New Zealand a bus can’t even be put into service on a local authority public transport route without cab and saloon air conditioning, and air suspension drivers seats. These are legal requirements. Having driven an (old) bus without these, they make such a difference.

Do the relevant authorities and companies care so little about driver welfare? Tragic if so.