Glass surfaces getting smaller in new cars- just design?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Inspired by the shite-colours thread, I 'd like your thoughts on the above. I remember that in the late eighties and throughout the nineties, carmakers were making a specific point about their new models having large glass surfaces for better visibility and an airier cabin feel. That made sense to me, and seemed like an improvement over older designs

 

However, it seems like nowadays the glass surfaces are getting smaller and smaller. I reckon it all started with the new Scirocco, the four-seater car whose rear windows were inspired by postage stamps, and it's spreading across manufacturers. Especially the doors are getting more and more metal instead of glass, but tailgates also suffer from it.

 

Is this craze a stupid design trend, or are they doing it for a purpose(e.g. OMG CABRON EMISIONZ)??

[Pete-M]

Glass is heavy.

 

Also, I don't like large windows in cars. Really don't like 'airy' cars at all, never have done. It's one reason why I don't like Rovda 600s.

 

Maybe I'm not the only one who doesn't want to drive around in a fishbowl.

 

Perfect car interior for me would be black leather Recaros, black headlining, black carpet, black door trims, quite a high waistline and bloody good air conditioning. No sunroof is a bonus too.

[Albert Ross]

Scirocco my arse.

[Pete-M]

I like those. It's the little windows combined with a Yank V8 screwed to a load of old Merc bits and tupperware. Kwality.

[dollywobbler]

I blame this facelift of the Land Rover FC101.

 

Sorry about the size there. Photobucket doesn't seem to work for me any more.

 

I LOVE glassy cars. Peugeot 306 and 1990s Hondas have a nice low scuttle and superb visibility. I like being able to see out.

[Pillock]

Yeah, glass is REALLY heavy. Look how much a glass-roofed 307SW weighs, it's a little bit more than Jupiter.

Plus, design. Swoopy lines and all that. But also comfort - more glass, more heat in the summer, so to keep your car-buying public happy you have to have an AC compressor you ripped off an office block, sapping the engine power. Don't put that in, and they'll keep coming back complaining that it doesn't work. Less glass, smaller AC, more power.

[trigger]

I sat in the brand new shape Focus a few weeks ago, i couldn't see a thing out of the back window, No wonder most new cars have parking sensors now.

[gtd2000]

Also, I don't like large windows in cars. Really don't like 'airy' cars at all, never have done. It's one reason why I don't like Rovda 600s.

 

Maybe I'm not the only one who doesn't want to drive around in a fishbowl.

 

No Toyota Sera for you then?

 

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I sat in the brand new shape Focus a few weeks ago, i couldn't see a thing out of the back window, No wonder most new cars have parking sensors now.

 

T'other day, I caught a radio ad for a new Lexus something-or-other whose standard equipment apparently includes front and rear parking sensors in addition to a reversing camera!

[Lord Sterling]

I test-drove the new Scirocco, I couldnt see anything out of the back window, makes reversing interesting. I think the P12 Primera had rear reversing cameras because if the high back end.

[Pete-M]

I sat in the brand new shape Focus a few weeks ago, i couldn't see a thing out of the back window, No wonder most new cars have parking sensors now.

 

Ever drive the horror that was the Mk2 Astra GTE? The 'view' out of the back of those things was atrocious. It's not a modern thing!

[HMC]

Roof pillars have definitely got chunkier, going from our discovery 1 with its low wastline and skinny pillars to a mates newish Range rover theres quite a difference from the driving seat (in lots of ways!) but especially how much worse visibility is. So good for passive but not active safety it seems

[dollywobbler]

Trig - interesting you have a go at the new Focus. My first thought when I first drove a Mondeo like yours was "this is like reversing a 1970s supercar!"

 

I'll just destroy that statement by saying the most super car I've driven from the 1970s is probably an Austin Maxi HLS, which has really rather good visibility.

[M'coli]

I blame NCAP - a box with small holes in it will be stiffer than one made of the same stuff with large holes in it. I like to see out of a car but it appears that most of the buying public don't care - it's not on the needs list anymore, but having the right sort of "cool" gadgets is.

[ashmicro]

The titchy windows thing is why one of my mates didn't change his original IS200 for a new one. Me, I like large windows in a car, like a Maestro or Metro, and I do like an airy, light interior. My Mk4 Fester was black outside, but had a light tan interior and glass sunroof. (1400 Zetec didn't hurt either). Compared to my previous car (an yellow Cunto Sporting) it was a much nicer drive, about as quick and a damn sight lighter on fuel. Contrast the Cunto with a coal-hole interior in a mark 2 Goof GiT and thick C posts, you get a shade worse again. Not a modern thing as said.

 

Another mate has an X300 Jaaag with a mushroom interior - vast and light, with good size glass. Very nice.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Yeah, glass is REALLY heavy. Look how much a glass-roofed 307SW weighs, it's a little bit more than Jupiter.

Plus, design. Swoopy lines and all that. But also comfort - more glass, more heat in the summer, so to keep your car-buying public happy you have to have an AC compressor you ripped off an office block, sapping the engine power. Don't put that in, and they'll keep coming back complaining that it doesn't work. Less glass, smaller AC, more power.

 

I can't help thinking something like that may be the closest to the truth- "an extra 5% of glass surface makes the car 1.2% hotter in the summer, which means that there's a 15% chance that the emissions testing will show an extra μgram of co2, which will push us into band AZW654b in Belarus, losing us the contract with Lukasenko's Ministry of Fluffy Bunnies and Rabbits. ERASE ALL WINDOWS"

[rml2345]

Probably not in the least bit scientific, but I found it alot easier to reverse the 740 than the Yaris, simply because I can see out of the rear window, and down the flanks. Not a big fan of this new trend for tiny windows either, as I like... Y'know... Seeing stuff.

[scooters]

but windscreens seem vast these days - compare the Picasso to the screen on my 240 Volvo - the vlvo seems tiny!

 

One thing I love about driving the OMG SHERPA is that with all the campervan glass it's a light place to be

 

I usually have sunroofs open if on my own and unless it is raining - I hate feeling boxed in!

[KruJoe]

In fact it is due to window tax, which consists of two parts: a flat-rate tax of two shillings per vehicle, and a variable tax for the number of windows above four windows. Vehicles with between four and twenty windows pay a total of four shillings, and those above twenty windows pay eight shillings. Registered keepers who are exempt from paying church or poor rates, for reasons of poverty, are exempt from the window tax.

The bigger the vehicle, the more windows it is likely to have, and the more tax the keeper is liable to pay. In recent times, this has lead to an increase in the popularity of larger vehicles with fewer windows.

[Guest]

I took this as the basis for a glass comparison exercise. Let us take my C4 and Amazon as two examples. The Citroen has a massive windscreen, thick pillars and consequently weighs more than the moon. You cannot see the nose and the A pillars are beefy enough to cause problems pulling out of junctions. The rear view is pretty poor, but far better than the 3 door. The glass is angled to the vertical in the middle of the pane causing all manner of problems with distance \ depth perception. Stick a spoiler on there and you end up with a distorted slit and yet another reason not to buy a C4.

 

My aircon is broken.

 

Contrast this to the vinyl seat \ oil ambience of the Amazon and things are much better, despite the overall glass area being far smaller. An almost flat windscreen and tiny pillars mean you can place the car far more easily on the road. The chrome garnish on the bonnet lets you know where it ends and you can aim the car with it, often into the chest fridge freezer. The rear 'screen curves round into the C pillar and if you sit up, you can gauge distance with the chopped tailfins. Right before you reverse repeatedly into the stupid bint from downstairs who thinks parking up nose first against the 'shit old banger' is really funny.

 

The Piazza had a very airy glasshouse as well, although the sloping nose made it a bit of a sod to park. Surprisingly my 480 is excellent at the back but suffers from a similar affliction to the Piazza up front. Good, heavy doors though. Great for twatting little bastards on push bikes in the side of the head with as they lean in and try to pull your keys out on a hot summer's day. Sorry mate, my phone's broken. It would have been pointless you nicking it then, wunnit? You just lie there, yeah, get your breath back.

 

Where's my hammer?

[seth]

[Guest]

 

Ah yes. The 'wait till you see the front'. I admire it as a piece of unapologetically functional piece of design, but having ridden one, the low belt line is a bit disconcerting. Shame on Fiat for bottling it on the facelifted version and making it look almost normal.

 

I think the asymmetrical window treatment on the Nissan Cube is interesting too, but you'd probably hate it if you rented one and picked it up in the dark.

[Pete-M]

Another mate has an X300 Jaaag with a mushroom interior - vast and light, with good size glass. Very nice.

 

Shhhh, mine's got oatmeal...

[Volksy]

Front pillars are thick due to NCAP and the likes I recon. The Van I just gave back was lethal on hairpins as the mahoosive pillars would block the incoming road side for about 2 secs.

 

GR9 for testing NCAP figures...

[Albert Ross]

Who needs visibility? I drive a Series Land Rover. Like a Pillbox with a flower pot popped outside the front door. You really struggle to see past the spare wheel on the bonnet (and no, I am NOT putting it on the back or the roofrack.. not even inside as it lopsides the suspension) It looks really cool as far as I care anyway. I have trouble with other drivers not realising it has no power steering or indeed a turning circle. Just the other night some scab in a plastic repmobile dumped it 2 feet from my front bumper. I pointed out that I couldn't get past him..... He wasn't bothered. So I just went for it anyway. He moved it.

[M'coli]

Another mate has an X300 Jaaag with a mushroom interior

Are you sure it's "mushroom"?

[garethj]

It’s all for safety – thick screen pillars at a low angle help to spread the crash load through the roof as well as the floor. Unfortunately this puts the bottom of the windscreen halfway down the bonnet so the satnav you’ve suckered in place will be too far away to reach.

 

Mrs garethj isn’t keen to drive the 740 estate because “it’ll be difficult to parkâ€Â. But as you can see every edge and corner through the huge expanse of glass, it’s a doddle. Much easier than her S80 which has headrests so big you can barely see through the back window.

 

I found the Land Rover to be the same – glass everywhere and vertical sides so very easy to park. Excepting the muscles of Hercules you’d need to turn the steering wheel, natch.

[Richard]

I don't think there's a single car on the road easier to park than a 700/900 Volvo estate. You can see exactly where it ends and it has an exceptionally small turning circle.

[scooters]

I don't think there's a single car on the road easier to park than a 700/900 Volvo estate. You can see exactly where it ends and it has an exceptionally small turning circle.

 

 

yes...there is....the Volvo 240 has an even tighter turning circle than the 7/9 series! Was out in it today and pulled off a U turn a black cab would be proud of - the C3 folllwing us had to do a series of 3 pointers...

 

my old 940 was good but the 240 is G9 4 PARKING AND U TURNZ

[ashmicro]

I don't think there's a single car on the road easier to park than a 700/900 Volvo estate. You can see exactly where it ends and it has an exceptionally small turning circle.

 

 

Montego

 

 

 

(sorry, any excuse)