Missed Opportunities: Cars that ALMOST made it to America, but didn't

[Sigmund Fraud]

11 hours ago, Madman Of The People said:

Volvo already had previous experience with front drive, thanks to their Dutch outpost, acquired when Volvo bought DAF's car division in 1974. 

Sorry to be pedantic, but DAF had no front wheel drive experience whatsoever. All their passenger cars had rear wheel drive and variomatic, from the DAF 600 all the way to the DAF 77.

[Snipes]

15 hours ago, HillmanImp said:

They did sell the mk3 as the Merkur Scorpio didn't they. 

Wasn't a success though. Probably wished they'd gone with the earlier one. 

Xr4ti, too.

[Bear]

I think, looking at it, that those are CX nacelles. They're the wrong shape for a GS grille or headlight...

[cort1977]

On 22/09/2025 at 12:26, D.E said:

The Lincoln Mark I Ghia, an American looking front grafted onto a Granada:

 

Magnificent. I almost prefer that to the actual Granada. Reminds me of the Holden Statesman and Ford LTDs which were Australian efforts at the same idea.

 

[Madman Of The People]

4 hours ago, Sigmund Fraud said:

Sorry to be pedantic, but DAF had no front wheel drive experience whatsoever. All their passenger cars had rear wheel drive and variomatic, from the DAF 600 all the way to the DAF 77.

What I meant to say was that the 400 series was the work of Volvo B.V. Netherlands, formerly DAF, with the assistance of Renault, of course.  I should have made that more clear.

 

[Madman Of The People]

2 hours ago, Snipes said:

Xr4ti, too.

I had an XR4Ti in the early 1990s.  Ford’s biggest mistake was selling them through their Lincoln-Mercury dealer network.  They didn’t have a clue as to the car or the sort of customer to whom Ford corporate were trying to appeal.  My local dealer service department were pretty hopeless, too!

 

[HillmanImp]

On 22/09/2025 at 12:26, D.E said:

The Lincoln Mark I Ghia, an American looking front grafted onto a Granada:

Looks like a Bentley Continental doesn’t it. 

[warren t claim]

How did the USA GS work without self levelling suspension? 

[Bear]

3 hours ago, warren t claim said:

How did the USA GS work without self levelling suspension? 

The self levelling suspension ban came after the GS, it hit the CX in 1974 and only lasted a few years which makes the plate under the bonnet of a Xantia baffling, but let CXA bring the CX in later and as mentioned there is an XM or two there - there were studies of the XM as a saloon, which wasn't as strange as the Renault 25 becoming an AMC/Eagle and then the LH.

It's easy to forget the Citroen GS was launched in 1970. Think of it sitting alongside Ford Escort Mk1s and HB Vivas...

 

[AnthonyG]

On 22/09/2025 at 12:26, D.E said:

The Lincoln Mark I Ghia, an American looking front grafted onto a Granada:

This was a styling concept by Ghia, just after Ford had taken full ownership of the design house (Ghia had previously been associated with Chrysler in the 1950s). It was never a production model, and I’m not sure it ever carried a Lincoln badge, albeit it had the gunsight hood ornament.

I don’t think it was ever a serious proposition, but the styling, particularly at the front end, was very similar to the American Ford Granada and Mercury Monarch, which were launched in late 74, so a year after this concept was displayed. Therefore it may have been built as a quick & cheap way to gauge reactions to the upcoming US cars, which were mechanically completely unrelated to the European Granada. 

The top spec Monarch was a Ghia badged version, and the Monarch was also ‘Lincolnised’ into the 1977 Versailles, a rush job after Ford saw the success of the first Cadillac Seville.  You could buy the Mercury Monarch in the UK and presumably throughout the rest of Europe - Switzerland and Belgium were generally the best markets for American cars and at one point GM had small assembly plants for its US models in both countries. 

[AnthonyG]

On 22/09/2025 at 07:27, New POD said:

At the time Chrysler owned Talbot.  That would have been an interesting* branding. 

Talbot was a Peugeot Group (PSA) rebranding of Chrysler UK/France cars. It was (re)created by PSA a year or so after they took control from Chrysler, picked from the vast range of defunct marque names PSA had access to, and they opted for Talbot because it meant something in both main markets, such as Sunbeam Talbot here and Talbot Lago there. 

Some models, such as the Avenger, started life as Hillmans, became Chryslers in 1976 when the old Rootes names were dropped, then became Talbots in 1980. 

[AnthonyG]

On 23/09/2025 at 00:47, warren t claim said:

I don't recall ever seeing a single Lada in Canada back in the mid 80s when I lived there. Quite a lot of Ford stuff though. Capris, Mk1 Fiestas and Mk3 Cortinas. BL stuff was mainly Jags and sports cars but I'd see the occasional SD1. 

I was surprised to see a few Fiat 131s roaming the streets though. 

The Capri was a really popular ‘captive import’ for North American Ford dealers in the 1970s, and the Fiesta was designed with both Europe and North America in mind. America got the Cortina Mk1&2 (and earlier British models like the Anglia) through the ‘English Ford’ line which bigger dealers carried alongside the regular Dearborn cars. America didn’t get the Cortina Mk3 as presumably they didn’t want to queer the pitch for the Pinto. Also around this time Ford USA was getting very peed off with supply issues of both cars and parts from Ford GB due to strikes. As a result all North American Capris, which were sold under the Lincoln Mercury umbrella, were German built. The first ones were sort of unbranded with just Capri badges, the 1974 Capri II was badged as a Mercury and our 1979 Capri ‘3’ never made it over there, at this point the ‘Mercury Capri’ limped on as a badge engineered Mustang for a couple more years. 

I doubt there were any left by the mid 80s, as they were considered an all time lemon on the Canadian market, but the Viva HC estate and Firenza were sold as Pontiacs in the early 70s. 

[Richard_FM]

17 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Talbot was a Peugeot Group (PSA) rebranding of Chrysler UK/France cars. It was (re)created by PSA a year or so after they took control from Chrysler, picked from the vast range of defunct marque names PSA had access to, and they opted for Talbot because it meant something in both main markets, such as Sunbeam Talbot here and Talbot Lago there. 

Some models, such as the Avenger, started life as Hillmans, became Chryslers in 1976 when the old Rootes names were dropped, then became Talbots in 1980. 

In most export markets the Hillman cars were badged as Sunbeams, even the non-sporting models.

[Richard_FM]

On 23/09/2025 at 07:13, Madman Of The People said:

 

Yes they were!  Although it was really more of an experiment than anything else.  504s and 505s were pressed into service as an alternative to the fuel guzzling Checker Marathons, Chevrolet Impalas and Ford LTDs.

https://www.cockpitdz.com/en/post/peugeot-504-and-505-in-the-usa

 

Did they have diesel engines?  In the 1970s there was a brief fad for diesels in the USA, with GM probably making the most effort in this area.  When fuel prices calmed down in the 1980s the went quickly out of fashion, especially as mechanics didn't like working on them.

[AnthonyG]

Yeah, Peugeot, Mercedes and Volkswagen/Audi sold diesels in the late 1970s, and as you say there were less successful attempts by GM, I think someone on here has an Oldsmobile Delta 88 diesel. GM diesels were mainly the downsized B body saloon/estates (‘77 on Caprice and siblings) and the smaller A body cars - Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal etc. 

For some reason Oldsmobile seemed to be the main GM diesel brand, maybe because they as a division showed most interest in them. This was the era when Olds was the third biggest selling brand anyway, and the various Cutlass models were dominant in the marketplace.

There was also a Cadillac Seville turbo diesel, in the second generation bustle-back cars. And speed freaks could luxuriate in 1800 ccs of Isuzu oil-burning power in the Chevrolet Chevette! 

The European models were popular in a niche sort of way, the GM diesels were generally seen as both a marketing and a technical failure. I think the engines were just dieselised versions of established petrol designs and were regarded as unsophisticated and unreliable. Aside from the Isuzu one in the Chevette, which was probably the best match of engine power to car size and weight, and additionally was Japanese so didn’t break down regularly or burn/leak oil. 

Possibly the least glamorous car Jane Fonda ever drove in character was a lemon yellow VW Rabbit diesel in the late 70s anti nuclear film ‘The China Syndrome’…

[warren t claim]

20 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Yeah, Peugeot, Mercedes and Volkswagen/Audi sold diesels in the late 1970s, and as you say there were less successful attempts by GM, I think someone on here has an Oldsmobile Delta 88 diesel. GM diesels were mainly the downsized B body saloon/estates (‘77 on Caprice and siblings) and the smaller A body cars - Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal etc. 

For some reason Oldsmobile seemed to be the main GM diesel brand, maybe because they as a division showed most interest in them. This was the era when Olds was the third biggest selling brand anyway, and the various Cutlass models were dominant in the marketplace.

There was also a Cadillac Seville turbo diesel, in the second generation bustle-back cars. And speed freaks could luxuriate in 1800 ccs of Isuzu oil-burning power in the Chevrolet Chevette! 

The European models were popular in a niche sort of way, the GM diesels were generally seen as both a marketing and a technical failure. I think the engines were just dieselised versions of established petrol designs and were regarded as unsophisticated and unreliable. Aside from the Isuzu one in the Chevette, which was probably the best match of engine power to car size and weight, and additionally was Japanese so didn’t break down regularly or burn/leak oil. 

Possibly the least glamorous car Jane Fonda ever drove in character was a lemon yellow VW Rabbit diesel in the late 70s anti nuclear film ‘The China Syndrome’…

I think the diesels were to get around the CAFE regs.

[Madman Of The People]

BTW, here's the Volvo 480 cabrio prototype that never made it to production.

 

It bears an uncomfortable resemblance to the 1991-94 Mercury Capri, an import from Ford of Australia based on the Mazda 323.  It was intended to compete against the Mazda MX-5 but was roundly dismissed for being front wheel drive and lacking any sporting character.

 

 

[sheffcortinacentre]

8 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

The Capri was a really popular ‘captive import’ for North American Ford dealers in the 1970s, and the Fiesta was designed with both Europe and North America in mind. America got the Cortina Mk1&2 (and earlier British models like the Anglia) through the ‘English Ford’ line which bigger dealers carried alongside the regular Dearborn cars. America didn’t get the Cortina Mk3 as presumably they didn’t want to queer the pitch for the Pinto. Also around this time Ford USA was getting very peed off with supply issues of both cars and parts from Ford GB due to strikes. As a result all North American Capris, which were sold under the Lincoln Mercury umbrella, were German built. The first ones were sort of unbranded with just Capri badges, the 1974 Capri II was badged as a Mercury and our 1979 Capri ‘3’ never made it over there, at this point the ‘Mercury Capri’ limped on as a badge engineered Mustang for a couple more years. 

I doubt there were any left by the mid 80s, as they were considered an all time lemon on the Canadian market, but the Viva HC estate and Firenza were sold as Pontiacs in the early 70s. 

The MK3 cortina was sold in 1600ohv & 2000ohc in 72/3 in all three body styles through mercury dealers ( again without ford badges) 

GM sold a diesel chevette ( Isuzu engine) but was bigger than the UK version, the dieselised the 350ci small block V8  which had a very poor reliability ( blown head gaskets sometimes heads too ) was very underpowered. Avl in late 70's early 80's in Caprice,caddy  & c10 pickups.

[Volksy]

As the US market Fiesta only lasted from 1977 - 1980 , I wonder if the reason the European Mk1 Fiesta XR2 (released 1980) had the round sealed beam lights, is that they had a load of sealed beam bezels left over. 

[Madman Of The People]

3 hours ago, Volksy said:

As the US market Fiesta only lasted from 1977 - 1980 , I wonder if the reason the European Mk1 Fiesta XR2 (released 1980) had the round sealed beam lights, is that they had a load of sealed beam bezels left over. 

I believe the US market Fiesta was a temporary stop-gap to to give American Ford dealers a competitive small car to offer until the US-Escort arrived for 1981.

This was needed because, by the late 1970s, Ford Pinto sales were in free fall thanks to the whole exploding fuel tank fiasco.  With consumers avoiding the Pinto like the plague, Ford’s imported Fiesta was a more palatable alternative.

American Fiestas had the 1.6 Kent engine and, I believe, the XR2 was developed using the US export model as a starting point.

 

[sheffcortinacentre]

The 1300 was lowest engine option.

Headlights were due to a federal requirement at the time re readily available replacement.

Halogen versions were std on XR2.

1.6 versions had been tried in rallying from circa 78-9 as a possible mk 2 escort replacement but we're soon found to be woefully under powered unable to put decent power down.

[Bear]

See, I thought the Fiesta was designed with both Europe and the US  in mind as project Bobcat.

But the Escort was more suitable to American ideas of "compact" and the energy crisis was all but done when the thing hit the market so it didn't last.

 

[Richard_FM]

8 minutes ago, Bear said:

See, I thought the Fiesta was designed with both Europe and the US  in mind as project Bobcat.

But the Escort was more suitable to American ideas of "compact" and the energy crisis was all but done when the thing hit the market so it didn't last.

 

Looks a bit weird, especially those wheels, that wouldn't look out of place on a mid 70s Japanese coupe!

[High Jetter]

10 minutes ago, Bear said:

See, I thought the Fiesta was designed with both Europe and the US  in mind as project Bobcat.

But the Escort was more suitable to American ideas of "compact" and the energy crisis was all but done when the thing hit the market so it didn't last.

 

Shades of Chevette there

[sheffcortinacentre]

The us ones had a recessed fuel cap behind a square flap similar to a MK3 cortina,

[Bear]

1 hour ago, High Jetter said:

Shades of Chevette there

Wouldn't surprise me if there was influence - the T-car was the target I believe, Though a proper conspiracy would be that it ripped off the Tavria.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

2 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

Looks a bit weird, especially those wheels, that wouldn't look out of place on a mid 70s Japanese coupe!

I once lived close to SHAPE and saw a one in a driveway nearby. Looked odd. Many US oddities around that place! 

[Lacquer Peel]

On 24/09/2025 at 22:53, AnthonyG said:

Yeah, Peugeot, Mercedes and Volkswagen/Audi sold diesels in the late 1970s, and as you say there were less successful attempts by GM, I think someone on here has an Oldsmobile Delta 88 diesel. GM diesels were mainly the downsized B body saloon/estates (‘77 on Caprice and siblings) and the smaller A body cars - Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal etc. 

For some reason Oldsmobile seemed to be the main GM diesel brand, maybe because they as a division showed most interest in them. This was the era when Olds was the third biggest selling brand anyway, and the various Cutlass models were dominant in the marketplace.

There was also a Cadillac Seville turbo diesel, in the second generation bustle-back cars. And speed freaks could luxuriate in 1800 ccs of Isuzu oil-burning power in the Chevrolet Chevette! 

The European models were popular in a niche sort of way, the GM diesels were generally seen as both a marketing and a technical failure. I think the engines were just dieselised versions of established petrol designs and were regarded as unsophisticated and unreliable. Aside from the Isuzu one in the Chevette, which was probably the best match of engine power to car size and weight, and additionally was Japanese so didn’t break down regularly or burn/leak oil. 

Possibly the least glamorous car Jane Fonda ever drove in character was a lemon yellow VW Rabbit diesel in the late 70s anti nuclear film ‘The China Syndrome’…

I don't think there was a Seville turbo diesel. 

Almost all European passenger car diesels are dieselised petrol engines, it's just that GM didn't do it very well initially, they didn't account for the much higher compression ratios (not enough head bolts and example) and their workshops were not ready to service diesels. 

Some non GM American diesel oddities I can think of - Lincoln Continental with a BMW 2.4 turbo diesel from the factory, North American Ford Escort diesel with power from Mazda, Jeep Cherokee offered with a Renault turbo diesel. 

The PSA XUD made it to North America but fitted to one of these. 

 

[Madman Of The People]

America also had diesel Peugeot 504s and 505s.  We also had the BMW 524TD as well as Mercedes W123, W124, and S Class diesels.

Oh, and Volvo 200 and 700 series diesels, too.

[Lacquer Peel]

I would love to try one of these, obscure AMC Eagle diesel conversion with the six cylinder version of the VM turbo diesel fitted to various European cars like the Range Rover Turbo Diesel and Rover 2400SD Turbo. 

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automotive-history-1980-eagle-turbo-diesel-seven-were-built-one-still-survives-not-running/