project 1972 Vanden Plas Princess 1300 - The Forum Bike VP

[SiC]

I always said that, when tinkering with this car early on, I wouldn't get it into a state that was undriveable. 

So last night I pulled the dash...

The main aim was to remove the speedometer. It does the typical old car thing of the needle waving about and it's also hideously inaccurate. Every time I've driven it, it's been getting worse. Andy told me it wasn't too bad before Scotland but during and after it has been worse. Also when the car is warm it's especially bad.

When it arrived, driving off the truck and into storage had it doing 20mph on the gauge despite being completely stationary. If I was doing 20mph here, I'd been through the back of the barn in no time!

I didn't remove the whole thing. My expectation was the whole thing needed to come out however poking around the back I found a whole lot of wing nuts. No idea if this is factory (I suspect not) but it made removing it pretty easy. I also undid the top bolt on the steering column to let that drop down to give some more room.

Even with that all undone, it didn't allow the whole dash to move forwards. Wiring, oil pipes and such stopped it moving too much more.

However just enough for me to get my hands and a small spanner in to remove the Speedo head. 

The prize.

There was a whole lot of oil in the cable connector and pulling the cable out, it was filthy.

I decided to remove the cable for an inspection at least with a possible replacement.

Getting it off the engine was a nightmare. I ended up removing the coupling so I could brute force the cable off on the bench/floor. Hitting mole grips with a nylon mallet (they're my good mole grips!) and coupling in a vice eventually got it shifted.

Cable itself is fubar. It's a two piece cable which is going to be really old and possibly original. They're all now one piece - presumably for manufacturing simplicity.

The worst bit is the top half to the speedo head. This melted/broken sheath section is near the exhaust manifold. So unsurprising it's degraded. 

A quick Google said that a non-overdrive MGB GT speedo cable will work. 2 inches longer but what's that between friends. 

GSD249 is the magic part number. 

A "proper" cable from one of the 1100 part suppliers is £28. That cable above can be had elsewhere for £12 inc vat.

Last night I ordered it from MG Owners club store. Mostly because of cheapness but also because I ordered a few heater cables and pieces that I plan to repair the broken heater controls with. Again not exactly the same but slightly longer and hopefully can be made to work. £5 a cable each versus £25 from a 1100 supplier.

Left in the below pictures is air direction and goes to the flaps in the heater box by cable. Right is hot to cold which goes to an engine mounted heater valve.

If you look closely on the above controls, you'll see the cable anchoring points on the heater controls are broken. The zip tie fix unfortunately doesn't work that well.

I believe originally it had clips like used on Land Rovers and such.

However I don't fancy my chances then actually holding onto the brittle plastic. Not least it's already snapped on one side.

So instead I plan to use these style clips - as on the heater box. I'll drill through the controls plastic and put a screw/nut/washer to hold it all and spread the load.

With that all ordered, it will be a few days before I can progress any further. I might pull the speedometer head apart and see if that can be cleaned up inside. I've ordered some clock oil that I might put on any moving parts to hopefully free things up and give it a light service.

There is a classic meet tomorrow evening that I was planning to go to in this. That won't be happening now. 😅🤦‍♂️

[camryv6]

And so it begins lol

[SiC]

2 minutes ago, camryv6 said:

And so it begins lol

I will keep quiet about the footwell carpet I pulled up in inquisitiveness knowing that that area had been repaired on every one I've had previously...

It went crunch and if I poked my finger into it any harder ...

[N Dentressangle]

Incorrigible

[tooSavvy]

@SiC.. "I've ordered some clock oil that I might put on any moving parts to hopefully free things up and give it a light service".

I believe GT-85 (sprayed into the tin cap) and dripped into stuff is excellent for 'light lubes' 😉

I took a 90° Speedo drive box out of an 1100 once... Knurled ring onto Speedo / threaded shoulder to screw Speedo outer onto. Had it for an absolute age, in an oddments box 🧐

🚙💨

[purplebargeken]

Jesus H Christ,  the front wings will be off by Friday and a few investigative proddings will result in another rotisserie being bought and put into use on Sunday. 

It’s deja vue AS style 🤣🤣🤣😊👍🏼👍🏼

We know how you roll Si!!

[SiC]

How bad do we reckon this would look on that knackered veneer dashboard? Passable? 🫣

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116441722611

 

An Amazon version is longer but looks the same effect 

https://amzn.eu/d/9TqEXUH

[N Dentressangle]

Awful.

I used some on an RRC I had a few years ago. It looked really shit.

There must be something better out there these days. Even just glueing Karndean on top would look better.

[captain_70s]

Is it the veneer itself failing or a gloss varnish is lifting? Not sure how viable removing one without damaging the other would be - if possible at all.

@Wibble may know a reasonable method of repair?

[SiC]

Just now, captain_70s said:

Is it the veneer itself failing or a gloss varnish is lifting? Not sure how viable removing one without damaging the other would be - if possible at all.

@Wibble may know a reasonable method of repair?

It's not only the lacquer that has gone but the wood veneer is cracking and falling off, starting to leave the base (ply?) wood visible.

I have some cherry veneer in the boot and my father was a professional carpenter (however he admits he wasn't that good and why he didn't carry on with it 😂), so in theory it could be done with old fashioned materials. Just that's a huge more amount of work that sticking a wrap on wood that's been smoothed off. 

[N Dentressangle]

Yeah. I'm not joking.

I did the gear selector surround with that horrid vinyl on the RRC. It looked rubbish, and on a dashboard would have been really grim.

I'm not totally kidding about the Karndean. Their images are really good, and a board of it glued to something the right thickness then cut accordingly would look spot on, IMO.

[High Jetter]

Restoration? Ask @Wibble

[Wibble]

1 hour ago, captain_70s said:

Is it the veneer itself failing or a gloss varnish is lifting? Not sure how viable removing one without damaging the other would be - if possible at all.

@Wibble may know a reasonable method of repair?

Good grief, please don’t resort to plastic stick on fake wood. That dash looks eminently restorable to me.

It will be a lacquered finish and quite feasible to strip, re-lay loose veneers and refinish. There has been some shrinkage, but a hot iron and cloth should be able to melt the original glue and get them flat again.Stripping and sanding would bring back the original colour, you can’t match fading, so would look different but stick on plastic would be criminal, imho. I documented doing the real wood veneer of my Cortina Mk4 dashboard on my car thread, before they went plastic on the Mk5. There are places that will do this professionally , a line I suggested my past employers explore years ago. Loving the progress by the way.

[SiC]

Flip side is that if the veneer is going to need to come off and be replaced, it's a cheap thing to give it a go. On the MK3 Austin/Morris 1100/1300 they ditched the ribbon dash and went to round clocks on a fake fablon style dashboard. So wouldn't be too out of keeping on what BL might have done in the 70s!

 

Worse case if it looks crap then pull it off and do with proper wood veneer?

Or rewrap with carbon fibre effect wrap 😇 

I imagine to get it professionally re-done is going to be hundreds of pounds.

[Andyrew]

The two rubber o rings stuffed in the blower motor to stop it rattling are holding up well! 

Having my foot wedged under it for a long time wasn't the most comfortable but at least it shut up the low speed rattling 

Picture of my left shoe after

[SiC]

I couldn't figure if that motor was installed 180 degrees or so out. There are 3 fixing holes and only two have bolts in with the other having no hole in the casing. Also there is a small extension wire to connect the positive side. Plan is at some point to take it off and have a gander to see if there is anything that can be done. Whether realign or just drill new holes to match the motor. 

[Wibble]

55 minutes ago, SiC said:

Flip side is that if the veneer is going to need to come off and be replaced, it's a cheap thing to give it a go. On the MK3 Austin/Morris 1100/1300 they ditched the ribbon dash and went to round clocks on a fake fablon style dashboard. So wouldn't be too out of keeping on what BL might have done in the 70s!

 

Worse case if it looks crap then pull it off and do with proper wood veneer?

Or rewrap with carbon fibre effect wrap 😇 

I imagine to get it professionally re-done is going to be hundreds of pounds.

Flipping it back again, at the moment the original looks salvageable, stick that fake stuff on and it won’t be. Originality and all that.

[SiC]

31 minutes ago, Wibble said:

Flipping it back again, at the moment the original looks salvageable, stick that fake stuff on and it won’t be. Originality and all that.

I'll take some closer up photos but the cracks you see aren't the lacquer coming off (well it is in parts) but also the veneer coming off too. There is even a small chunk completely missing. So while it can be re-lacquered, I imagine the cracks in the veneer would show through too?

[Six-cylinder]

The Triumph 2500 estate I borrow sometimes has had its wood covered in Fablon (sticky back plastic) because it had lots of peeling veneer and lacquer.

Looks ok at a glance, but does not stand up to inspection. 

[SiC]

53 minutes ago, Wibble said:

original looks salvageable

This is probably the easiest example to give without taking new photos (I'm in the office so not near). 

Starting from around the air vent is cracked lacquer. However as you go down, that veneer is cracked too. 

Is cracked veneer saveable? Or would there be lines all over even if restored?

[Wibble]

13 minutes ago, SiC said:

This is probably the easiest example to give without taking new photos (I'm in the office so not near). 

Starting from around the air vent is cracked lacquer. However as you go down, that veneer is cracked too. 

Is cracked veneer saveable? Or would there be lines all over even if restored?

Yes, it’s still salvageable. The cracks are natural shrinkage, you’ll see the same on an antique burr walnut veneered table. They can be filled and are just a natural sign of age and part of the patina.

[SiC]

I'll leave it alone for now. To do it properly will require removing the whole dash and all that entails. It's not trivial to remove like many other older cars as everything is attached to the loom. I don't want to start disturbing old wiring as that risks ends up creating new electrical issues.

[Wibble]

1 minute ago, SiC said:

I'll leave it alone for now. To do it properly will require removing the whole dash and all that entails. It's not trivial to remove like many other older cars as everything is attached to the loom. I don't want to start disturbing old wiring as that risks ends up creating new electrical issues.

I totally understand 👍

[Six-cylinder]

17 minutes ago, SiC said:

I'll leave it alone for now. To do it properly will require removing the whole dash and all that entails. It's not trivial to remove like many other older cars as everything is attached to the loom. I don't want to start disturbing old wiring as that risks ends up creating new electrical issues.

When you have mastered the repair technique we will send you Mrs6C's VP1500 one!😁

[SiC]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

When you have mastered the repair technique we will send you Mrs6C's VP1500 one!😁

Depends what you define as mastered that is acceptable!

 

[Andyrew]

[SiC]

Headlining is probably next on the list of stuff to tinker/replace. It's not only manky (likely cigarette smoke stained) but also ripped/moisture damaged at the rear. I have thought about cleaning it but that might finish it off. 

I need to have a poke around and see how it's attached. Whether suspended on cables or on a backing board. It's like a wool type material at the moment and I suspect it's on a backing board. I hope so then it should be easier to replace. If I do, it'll be a foam based scrim type covering I think I'll go for. My last had the headlining replaced with a perforated ivory/cream type material which really brightened up the interior. Like this: https://ebay.us/m/EbBJQU

[SiC]

Does anyone have any suggestions on where to get carpet on the roll?

The premade sets are insanely expensive for what they are. Like £200-400 for someone to pre-cut it. I can't imagine carpet on the roll is anywhere near that expensive. Nor is it that difficult thing to cut up using the old carpets as templates. I've seen it for sale at the NEC classic restoration show earlier this year but I can't remember the company names. 

[N Dentressangle]

These guys: https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/c-76-carpet

or Newton Commercial are the ones that spring to my mind.

[Andyrew]

5 hours ago, SiC said:

Headlining is probably next on the list of stuff to tinker/replace. It's not only manky (likely cigarette smoke stained) but also ripped/moisture damaged at the rear. I have thought about cleaning it but that might finish it off. 

I need to have a poke around and see how it's attached. Whether suspended on cables or on a backing board. It's like a wool type material at the moment and I suspect it's on a backing board. I hope so then it should be easier to replace. If I do, it'll be a foam based scrim type covering I think I'll go for. My last had the headlining replaced with a perforated ivory/cream type material which really brightened up the interior. Like this: https://ebay.us/m/EbBJQU

£37 a metre! Get right in the sea.

1970s curtains are very cheap. Life's too short for boring headliners!