Petrol v diesel

[pompei]

I'm still faffing about trying to decide what to do about regular daily transport ...As it's officially belt-tightening time, the obvious thing to get would be a diesel. However, I don't like the noise they make, but more significantly am worried about dual-whatsit flywheels. Do all turdblowers have these and are they all prone to falling apart at horrendous cost? Any other generic diseasel things to look out for?Thanks

[Father Ted]

Buy a 405 with the square port 1.7 N/A dizzle. It will be the slowest, most economical and boringly reliable car of eVah.

[myglaren]

I had to have mine and the clutch replaced at >120,000 miles but it was a misdiagnosis (turned out to be a duff injector) but they were about shot.

 

In part due to my abuse, I think, using rather extreme engine braking - slamming it into 3rd at 90mph on a downgrade on the way home, every day.

 

Don't do that any more.

 

(C5 2.0 HDi)

[Minimad5]

There is a company (that i cannot find now - typical) .. that do DMF kits , so you have a "normal" clutch.

 

So don't let that put you off - (Unless there is something horrid that i don't know)

 

And newer diesels are very quiet , so don't worry about the noise either.

I think it was a Jag ... this shape ..

we were behind afew days ago, and it was very quiet !

 

Sorry i am no help

[ashmicro]

Are you sure it was a Jag, MM?

 

 

 

This is Mrs_Ash's car, and quiet it aint!

[garbaldy]

I'm still faffing about trying to decide what to do about regular daily transport ...As it's officially belt-tightening time, the obvious thing to get would be a diesel. However, I don't like the noise they make, but more significantly am worried about dual-whatsit flywheels. Do all turdblowers have these and are they all prone to falling apart at horrendous cost? Any other generic diseasel things to look out for?Thanks

Deisel all day petrol for play I have never killed a dizzler yet and when doing auto tests and 12 cars i show no mercy

[Mr Lobster]

Depends on a lot of factors - budget, what sort of mileage and type of driving you do, if will be selling your current car how much will you get for that etc.A lot of people assume that a diesel will always be cheaper - it might but it depends on your circumstances.

[STUNO]

Buy a 405 with the square port 1.7 N/A dizzle. It will be the slowest, most economical and boringly reliable car of eVah.

Doubt it I had a Nissan Bluebird 2L dizzle auto that was hideously slow, until the cambelt tensioner fell off......

[Minimad5]

Yeah Ash, i think it was a V6 Ye' Old Man even commented "Fuck that can't be a diesel, i want one now"and he HATES diesels

[Tayne]

.

[Claypole]

Ran my 1.9 TDI Polo for a couple of years, 100 miles a day.

 

Cost me the usual tyres, a couple of bits of trim (worn when i got it), a new set of front springs and top mounts after one snapped due to speedbump malarky.

 

Then a new timing belt/pulleys and a service (changed oil every 4 months myself etc.).

 

Would have crippled me in a petrol car but this helped a bit:

 

 

currently on Ebay fending off Joey Deakin's with offers that are insulting.

[Milford Cubicle]

Is the 78MPG an average over many miles? I managed to get my SAAB 9000's MPG readout up to 70MPG for a short time...pompei, I think most common-fail diesels have dual mass failwheels. Now the oldest ones are over 10 years old you might be better off looking at a simpler petrol equivalent or an older diesel, depending on your budget.SEAT and Skoda TDis persisted with the older-style mechanical injection system right up until around 2002-2003, I'd look at them. I'm not sure about their DMF status though.I don't know why everybody's so hung up about the noise diesels make, I think they sound purposeful.4 cylinder ones do sound like tractors admittedly, but add a cylinder or two and they sound rather nice.

Buy a 405 with the square port 1.7 N/A dizzle.

Is there such a thing? I thought it was XUD9 only in n/a form.

[fiatdaft]

i will hopefully have a very tidy m reg passat diesel for sale soon,if your interested of course.

[Claypole]

Over quite a few tailgating lorries and caravans etc. on the M1 when I popped darn sarf to put some wheels on my BMW so I could get it collected. Managed about 68 the other day from Nottingham to Rotherham dawdling in the roadworks.

[Barry Cade]

There is a company (that i cannot find now - typical) .. that do DMF kits , so you have a "normal" clutch.

 

So don't let that put you off - (Unless there is something horrid that i don't know)

 

And newer diesels are very quiet , so don't worry about the noise either.

I think it was a Jag ... this shape ..

we were behind afew days ago, and it was very quiet !

 

Sorry i am no help

Its Valeo that do them, for Ford,VW group and Renault I believe..more on the way.

[CIH]

I really dislike dizzlers. Early versions were noisey nasty slow things (except for lorries which were awesome). Newer versions are too Audi-Ex-BMW-Man, especially as they're all laggy (despite trick and absurdly expensive blowers) and whoosh-ey, uh, sound-ey.

[Milford Cubicle]

I'm a fully paid up DIESEL LUVR.Only old rattly ones though - many of them will run on almost anything you put in the fuel tank with very slight modifications. They are also almost impossible to stall and the better turbocharged versions are great for lazy driving as you can just ride on a wave of torque everywhere.

[scruff]

I like old ones too. They generally only stop if there is air in the system or they are totally borked. I like my Audi but to be honest, have very little interest in it's 1.8 litre petrol heart - it does go well though bless it and is supa reliable. Quite torquey too. My missus' Mini is OK (fed up with pissing around with the ignition and carb...getting electronic dizzy and a rebuilt SU using the one from lankytim's van) and bog simple, the only other petrols I have ever owned were three Rover V8s. Which were all great.

[Father Ted]

Buy a 405 with the square port 1.7 N/A dizzle.

Is there such a thing? I thought it was XUD9 only in n/a form.

Indeed there is and painfully slow it was too - I had to alter my driving style drastically, it also had no PAS or indeed any other fippery such as a radio or elecky windows - it was however incredibly economical nad incredibly reliable in many respects I regret selling it as being a non sunroof car it was also very rust free.

[dieselnutjob]

However, I don't like the noise they make, but more significantly am worried about dual-whatsit flywheels.

The quietest diesels are common rail but these are also the most likely to have a DMF (dual mass flywheel), and newer ones sometimes have a particulate filter too.Concerning the older Peugeots and Citroens the 2.0 litre 90bhp ones had a standard clutch whilst the 110bhp ones had a DMF. Valeo now have a "four part clutch kit" which will replace the DMF on a 110bhp model with a standard clutch, but you are looking at a lot of labour to fit one.The DMF on my Peugeot 806 started to chew the casing of the transmission which would have been really nasty if I hadn't jumped on it quickly. The only symptom was a wierd scraping noise when the clutch pedal was pressed.The DMFs on Ford Focus TDCI will also destroy the starter motor when they wear because the metal particles from the clutch end up inside the starter motor..... Again a four part clutch kit is now available for the FocusDMFs are pretty bad news whatever the make.For me the sweetspot in technology may well have been the early VW / Audi TDIs from the mid 90s.Those TDIs are quite powerful and not too noisy or smoky as they have electronic control, they also don't have too many emission controls. The cats can be replaced with straight pipe and the EGR simply unplugged. The economy is also fabulous.The first common rails were Pug/Cit and Mercedes but common rail is a little more complex. They will not tolerate dirty fuel, water in the fuel or misfuelling. Petrol in the tank in an common rail is a £2000 mistake. Also the injector do eventually wear out and can cost £250 each.More recent diesels have particulate filters too and these can also cause trouble and also spoil the fuel consumption.My Peugeot 607 has a particulate filter which is now partially blocked and needs replacement. I have figured out a way to get rid of it completely (a hacked engine management software load) but haven't got round to it yet.I totally maintain and fix my cars myself and so for me diesels are definitely cheaper to run. My 806 now has over 200,000 miles on it and still runs well.However if you have to pay mechanics for servicing and fixing then modern diesel are all a bit of a time bomb. When the bomb explodes you are looking at a huge garage bill.You haven't specified how much you want to spend or your annual mileage so it's difficult to be specific....

[pompei]

Thanks for all the detailed information! I'm still in a state of flux about what to go for. Mileage is about 20k pa but reliability is crucial - if I don't get to a job, I don't get paid and get loads of grief from Head Office.Ideally looking to spend sub £5,000. There seems to be a huge choice from Alfa to Saab. The other option I'm looking at is the LPG/petrol combo - seem to get the best of all worlds?Thanks again

[Richard]

Not all 110 HDi engines have a DMF, the Xantia didn't have one.

[andrewp]

Having a 100 mile commute I often have this petrol / diesel dilemma when a car starts dying. I've had three cheap diesels for commuting, all with well over 100000 miles behind them. A '99 Mazda 626 Di TD estate that developed injector problems, a noisy 2001 Mondeo TDDi with various expensive engine issues and the most fun being a smooth '95 Golf GL Estate Tdi. The Mondeo did around 45MPG the other 2 between 52 and 55, the VW 1.9 TDi was superb and I could never understand why anyone bought a petrol engined Golf. A colleague at work has however had very expensive problems with a Fabia VRS (TDi), after much expense he was forced to P/X it when it refused to run properly. Not wanting any big repair bills mean I'm more than happy with my current '94 Toyota Carina 1.6 petrol which averages 45MPG and been totally problem free for over 2 years. It's been my cheapest car to run and is still worth more than I paid for it. I liked the idea of a newish Panda diesel for Mrs P but bought a 3 cylinder petrol Yaris in the end, it does 65MPG on a (gentle) run and sounds like an old Porsche 911 when you floor it, it's far from fun to drive but I've no mechanical worries, there's virtually nothing under the bonnet to go wrong.

[Polystratus]

I liked the idea of a newish Panda diesel for Mrs P but bought a 3 cylinder petrol Yaris in the end, it does 65MPG on a (gentle) run and sounds like an old Porsche 911 when you floor it, it's far from fun to drive but I've no mechanical worries, there's virtually nothing under the bonnet to go wrong.

Im thinking of a Panda diesel as the next car but it's things like particulate filters that put me off - have heard that they cause a lot of problems, and something like £1600 to fix by a dealer, but you're right about the MPG on small modern petrol engines - Citroen C1 s and similar have a three cylinder engine that can get up to into the 60's.I know Fabia/Octavia vRS engines seem to have a lot of problems, but quite a few owners tend to thrash them or do a re-map so the engine can't cope with the extra bhp.

[dollywobbler]

I've got both. Must admit, the XUD in the BX is a peach of a unit. Very smooth, no turbo so no turbo lag, quick enough and 50mpg. Rolls along on tickover in third! Great around town.I find the petrol cars a bit light on torque by comparison, though it's much more fun to wring their necks.

[Pete-M]

I'm a diesel hater, as you've probably noticed.However, there are a few I like. The new Skoda Superb suits being diesel, and the Avensis diesel lump is almost as refined as a Pinto..

[fiatdaft]

citroen / pug didn't do the first common rail.vw only went common rail last year aswell,,you can blame the new car market and the the euro government for the way modern diesels are run and controlled.i would say that the french seem to be the most problematic,but anything with a particulate filter can give trouble if not driven right.

[HillmanImp]

I have just got a Scenic dizzler for £300. Its bloody brill. Does a reasonable MPG and can fit 3 people and 3 bikes in it with ease.It might be as slow as Big Brother contestant and sound like someone is shaking a dustbin full snooker balls, but i have my other cars for ragging round country roads and looking fly mofo's. For economy and practicality it is totally full of win.

[Volksy]

but i have my other cars for ragging round, and off country roads and looking fly mofo's.

Edited for accuracy

[dieselnutjob]

if absolute reliability is your main criteria you can't beat Toyota (petrol or diesel) in my opinion. Personally I don't like them much, but if reliability is the be all and end all....