Laptoppery for Luddites

[Parky]

Now I cant help but notice there are some smart folk on here who know a bit about laptops and stuff. So I am asking for a bit of advice to get a handle on the best way to start on getting my folks online.My Mum uses a PC at work and considering she is techno-illiterate she is managing ok. She has now decided to get a laptop for home and I am looking into a few options for her. Basically they want to be able to access the web, send email, do a bit of shopping, and Dad may decide to learn how to write up quotes for his business on paper rather than fag packets. Anyway, I have decided that they are going to get a BT wireless sevice (no point persuading them to go to anyone else and they can get 8meg for £7.50 a month where they are) and at this point my options are:1) - Get a WII console so Dad has iPlayer, mum has internet, and the mini Parkys have games when staying at Nanny and Grandads. Problem is I dont know if anything will be printable, I suspect not....2) - Get a netbook from PC World like my Samsung N110 and get a dongle from BT3) - Get a proper laptop with built in dvd drive and proper memory and a BT dongleMy preferred option would be three but if we go that way, can anyone recommend a decent laptop for less than £400 with decent memory, reliability, and performance? Dell? Toshiba? Acer? I noticed Toshiba have a specioal where if you buy a TV or laptop from them and England win the World Cup, you get your money back. Its a ten to one shot but better than no shot at all!And we can rule out Apple on cost and usability. Mum is OK with XP and Windows 7 but I fear introducing Apple software would throw a spanner in the works!Any advice, hints, tips, and horror stories appreciated!

[trigger]

I have BT wireless Internet with the White box at home, I can't fault it and Mrs Triggers laptop is also wireless which I think they all are now so no need for dongles.As for makes well our laptop is a 2 year old Toshiba and it quite slow considering it cost us £300.I had to help my mum get online last year and found her a good deal on a Dell laptop from Currys, it was a good spec and was about £350, it quick as well, if I was buying another laptop I think it would a Dell one.

[Parky]

Thanks Trigger. I am veering towards Dell as I havent heard anything bad about them yet.Worked out earlier that with my broadband and mobiles and phones from different companies I am shelling out far too much each month on communications. Any ideas if anyone will do broadband, tv, mobiles, and home phones on one bill?

[trigger]

Does Sky not do that? I know you have to still pay line rental to BT though.

[r.welfare]

Virgin Media are the only company to do all four. Phact! It's called Quad Play.

[morris_ital_lover]

Thanks Trigger. I am veering towards Dell as I havent heard anything bad about them yet.

I've got a dell D620, and I have done since 2006, and its still soldiering on, well... I have had issues with it but I am reliably informed that these are only age related issues. One thing I would stress is that you get the four year waranty;; winter spring summer or autumn you tell them there is a problem and next working day there will be someone down with a toolkit and spare parts who will replace the deffective parts and you'll be on your way within 48 hours of first finding the problem, I've easily wiped out their entire profit on my laptop but I have mates who haven't gone for such warantees or haven't been offered them by the compaines only for everything to go boom and leave them way way down shit creek! (Oh, and I would advise against Toshiba, I know three people with them and two of them have had major hard-drive blow-ups within the first month!).m0rris

[myglaren]

Thanks Trigger. I am veering towards Dell as I havent heard anything bad about them yet.

(Oh, and I would advise against Toshiba, I know three people with them and two of them have had major hard-drive blow-ups within the first month!).m0rris

On the other hand, I bought four Toshiba Equium 100A's three years ago and none of them have had a single problem, other than they get very, very slow after about six-eight months, despite a huge memory boost.I doesn't take long to reinstall Vista though, and leave out the (fairly minimal) shovelware that comes on the install disc.I don't know why I keep Vista though.Last night I installed the latest Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid Lynx) on my fairly ancient home-built desktop and it absolutely flies in comparison to the higher-spec laptop. (the desktop has had Ubuntu on it from new)

[The Moog]

The option we chose was to get an ex business refurbished Laptop. It is a Dell Latitude D410. Was completely refurbished and wiped clean. Xp installed plus a couple of basics. It came with a choice of accessories such as Docking station or Extra battery etc. All for the princely sum of £150. Got 2 gb of memory, 80gb hard drive, wireless etc. It has been faultless to use and the fact it was a business spec one means it is better than a £300 cheapy from pcworld. It was so good I went and bought a desktop to give to my mum.

[Inspector Morose]

I don't know why I keep Vista though.Last night I installed the latest Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid Lynx) on my fairly ancient home-built desktop and it absolutely flies in comparison to the higher-spec laptop. (the desktop has had Ubuntu on it from new)

Yup been running this for a bit now and it's starting to become rather good. I have no idea about linux (fairly computer illiterate myself); all I want is something that works the basics reliably and Ubuntu seems to do it better than windows for me. Oh and it's free!Don't discount the e machines laptops. They may not be the best in the world but with a touch more memory, mine has been as reliable as a reliable thing for yeas now as my main computer at home.

[dollywobbler]

Interesting about slow Toshibas. My wife has one and it's a few years old and slower than a 2CV pulling a caravan. Up a hill. I've got an HP and now my wife does too.Don't be tempted by cheap laptops from names you've never heard of though. I bought a 'bargain' Advent a while back and it was stupidly shit. Kept overheating and shutting off. Didn't respond well to being hurled across the room when it did it once too many times...

[GJR 11L]

....I don't know why I keep Vista though.Last night I installed the latest Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid Lynx) on my fairly ancient home-built desktop and it absolutely flies in comparison to the higher-spec laptop. (the desktop has had Ubuntu on it from new)

Don't know what this " v i s t a" thing might be, nope, never heard of that???? Is 10.04 stable now then? I run 9.1 on three from four machines here but last time I checked, 10.04 was in Beta. Might give that a go if an existing user can confirm that it's all nice and steady.I've had a Toshiba laptop for these past three years, bought without o/s and running various Ubuntu or Freespire distros from new it has been utterly reliable, one or two failed electrolytic caps on the mobo were addressed under warranty when it ws 6 Months old, I've swapped out a further couple since.

[Inspector Morose]

Is 10.04 stable now then? I run 9.1 on three from four machines here but last time I checked, 10.04 was in Beta. Might give that a go if an existing user can confirm that it's all nice and steady.

Seems to be for me. There was a glitch with it at the end of last month, just before release but its all tickety boo now.

[pogweasel]

Don't be tempted by cheap laptops from names you've never heard of though. I bought a 'bargain' Advent a while back and it was stupidly shit. Kept overheating and shutting off. Didn't respond well to being hurled across the room when it did it once too many times...

My "Advent" has actually been pretty good. OK the outsides fall to pieces with alarming regularity (been back to DSG countless times as the screen detaches itself from the rest), but the gubbins was all decent spec. Only reason I am not using it now is that I took the HDD out and have lost the screws to put it back in. We've another one too, but that's hardly been used as it is not wireless.Got a Toshiba one sat here awaiting repair/de-infecting, that one was totally hopeless! Very slow, even when not riddled with computer aids. Recently acquired a supposedly "top spec" HP running 7 - desperately unreliable in terms of unexpected freezes & shut-downs, plus loads of stuff doesn't like 7. And the keyboard lasted about 2 weeks before buttons ceased functioning. That one sits on the desk at work and only gets used for a few bits & bobs of techy stuff.Most reliable (touch wood) is the super cheap (sub £300) Packard Bell I got for 'Er Indoors (but mostly use for myself on account of everything else being not so good). Apart from a cheap mouse clicker that has cracked it's really GR8.

[myglaren]

Interesting about slow Toshibas. My wife has one and it's a few years old and slower than a 2CV pulling a caravan. Up a hill. I've got an HP and now my wife does too.Don't be tempted by cheap laptops from names you've never heard of though. I bought a 'bargain' Advent a while back and it was stupidly shit. Kept overheating and shutting off. Didn't respond well to being hurled across the room when it did it once too many times...

All but one Advent I have encountered have been found wanting to say the least. The 'one' was a very recent netbook, 'Black Velvet' was the model, IIRC. It was quite good although I wasn't as impressed with Win7 that it came with. Only downside was a lack of DVD drive but not an insurmountable problem.I dread to think how many times I have dropped my Tosh, practically daily.While making the bed last night I caught the power cable and flicked it off the desk and across the room. Still working fine

[Minimad5]

I have to say my Advent 7109 has been fantastic.On the odd occasions that it has bounced down the stairs, been used as a trampoline by my neice, and had coca-cola spilt on it (Damn does it give you a massive electric shock !) .... it is still working fine.If you do get your laptop or desktop from PC world, i really think you should get there insurance for something like £9 a month. So if anything goes wrong, you ring them up and your computer is collected the next day.Out of experience - DO NOT buy a Toshiba Satellite Pro' (They are shit)This thread has reminded me to fix Senior Minimad's Laptop.Ooh and when you are looking for a laptop, check the charger "socket" , if it looks flimsy then move on ! (As with alot of use, and pushing in the charger ... the motherboards can crack in that area)Good luck !

[Parky]

Cheers all, some good advice there. Step one is to get their broadband sorted. Apparently my uncle who lives with them has some virgin cable deal so I suggested they look at that as virgin will probably provide a phone and broadband line for next to nothing to an existing customer. That said, BT do some cheap deals too so the broadband stuff should be a doddle. After that we'll sort a laptop!

[trigger]

Out of experience - DO NOT buy a Toshiba Satellite Pro' (They are shit)

Now you tell me!, That's what Mrs.T's is and it's crap, I never even bother using it anymore and just stick to my PC, Only last week my wife threw a wobbly over it as it froze and wiped all the shopping she was ordering from Sainsburys online.

[myglaren]

Haven't had any problems with mine. The Equium is a rebadged Sattellite, god knows why?I have looked at others since with an eye to replacing it when it gets old and doddery, like me. All the newer ones seem to be lower spec and more expensive.I don't do online shopping/banking/eBaying on it, being a Windaz machine, all that be done on the Ubuntu one, except last night where I forgot myself and bought some stuff, from the Ubuntu shop

[r.welfare]

I bought my wife a Toshiba Satellite Pro about 18 months back, and it went back three times in the first month for new motherboards. Seems fine now, but certainly not up to the build quality of contemporary Dells. I sprang an extra £50 for a 3 year warranty when it came back from the third repair! Touch wood, it's been fine now and should stay that way, but I wouldn't recommend one.All computers seem to slow down loads over time with Windows updates and other crud getting at the registry. My 5 year old Dell desktop now takes about 10 minutes from opening Windows before you can open Firefox etc, however a good format and re-install usually works wonders. In my experience, these anti-spyware programs like CCleaner don't seem to make much difference, only a complete wipe and fresh install will cure speed ills.

[brammy777]

I have a lowly model Vaio, but its only let me down the once so far, when it suffered complete hard drive faliure after a month. Sony repaired it super fast and their customer service is top notch. It cost something like... £490ish last year, but sadly I dont think they sell them anymore! But like I said, well worth it. My brother has a Fujitsu Milo (or something like that) and its been faultless too.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

My mum has a 2001 400mhz iMac running Tiger. Then a couple of years ago my dad bought a brand new Packard Bell Easynote with a 1.5ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and Vista. If I need to use one of their computers, I go for the iMac. Despite having a fraction of the power and half the memory, it starts up quicker and applications open quicker. It even shuts down quicker. Meanwhile, the iMac is fanless and silent, while the laptop has an intermittent fan which is VERY irritating. I have NO IDEA how a nine year old computer can outperform a brand new one by such a margin, but the lesson here is: don't buy a Packard Bell Easynote.

[Minimad5]

Peter - Because Vista is full of stuff that takes up so much memory and processing power. This can be overcome by removing things when installing Vista If you can get used to a mac, then i would say go for it .But i prefer to be "safe" and go with what i know. Mac's are easy to use, after you have played about for an hour or two.But user prefrences and all that

[Pillock]

I have to say my Advent 7109 has been fantastic.

Blimey! So it was you that got the good one ;)Normally, they're a bag of shite. Elitegroup 335/331 chassis (Depending on AMD or Intel, I forget which the 7109 is), they're made from the same plastic as Mondeo bumpers and will crack as soon as you look at it funny. The wireless dies remarkably easily, the back cabinet (the top, when closed) cracks around the hinges, and the battery life is measured in nanoseconds. I've fixed more of those than I've had Big Macs. Oh, and the DC sockets go wibbly and arc inside, melting the plug.BUT, like you say - buy from DSG, take the warranty, and it'll get fixed till they run out of parts at which point you get a new one. Not a bad service.Steer clear of Toshiba in general - only the Tecra range is worth having these days, Satellite and Satellite Pro are all made by a 3rd party who don't care for things like "build quality". Dell is generally good, but suffer from cracking plastic on some models. HP/Compaq are good build quality, but had an issue with the AMD models just randomly dying.... if you want one, get an Intel based one.Personally, I'd buy Sony every time. I've got an NR11 model here, admittedly cost me £20, but it's a really well built thing. And it's the next-to-bottom in their range, or it was when new..... hardly any recurring issues with poor build quality, the only ones we used to see when new were the thrown-down-stairs jobs.

[Minimad5]

Well Pillock i have had my share of problems with it .I forgot to mention it caught on fire once That is due to the arcing problem you have mentioned (Has not done it since)... and i had to wave it around like a mad mine, whilst plumes of smoke came out the back.Whilst this was happening it still functioned perfectly Needless to say , i turned it off Promptly !!The plastic has not cracked (yet) and i have had it for about 3 or 4 years now.All that has happened to the plastic, is that the silver paint has come off.I really want a Mac next thou'

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Peter - Because Vista is full of stuff that takes up so much memory and processing power. This can be overcome by removing things when installing Vista

If it was my laptop, I'd re-install. Except it didn't come with Windows discs, just a "recovery partition" so I'm leaving well alone. I set up a Toshiba laptop for someone recently. For some reason turning it on for the first time took an absolute age as it had to install Windows onto itself before we could use it. I mean, FFS, I didn't have to do that with my Windows 98 PC. Where's the progress?

[Claypole]

Netbooks are awful for the internet. They should have a sticker on them..."Great for the internet if you like scrolling a lot". - like using a normal laptop looking through a letterbox.

[GJR 11L]

Hmm, I wouldn't buy any extended warranty for an electrical gadget. Not white goods, not a TV and certainly not for something of the computer variety. Why?

 

Watchdog, that's why.

A few years ago, when Robinson had just been replaced on the show by Campbell, he ran a piece about someone who successfully took a major electrical goods retailer to court to argue that, if they were prepared to issue an extended warranty, then this was tantamount to saying that it would be reasonable to expect that item to last throughout the duration of any such warranty, therefore a fault claim could be made without any such warranty in place.

That case established the precedent and many people have, since that time, cited the case to retailers who have refused to fix appliances that had suffered problems at any time within what would have been the extended warranty period.

 

I tried this myself when a washer that I bought in 2006 recently needed a new starter cap on its motor. I had refused the extended cover at the time of purchase but the CoOp were fine about sending someone to fix it without any cost to myself. That'll do me.

[pogweasel]

The DSG warranty isn't like normal extended warranties though. It really is "whatever happens". If you lob it down the stairs on purpose, they fix it. If your toddler spills juice in it, they fix it. If your dog eats various components, they fix it. All no questions asked. It's £8.99 a month inc vat, which is not a major cross to bear. It doesn't necessarily cover data recovery, so you need to keep on top of that, plus pillock gets to see what pr0n you look at, but it's not a bad deal. I reckon I have had my money's worth, and it deffo got me out of some scrapes where buying a whole new computer would have put fiscal strain on the purse.

[Angrydicky]

Don't know much about laptops, but my one is a Toshiba which is about 3 years old, as soon as I bought it (from PC World) I had to make use of the "Techguys" warranty thingy as the mousepad was jumping all over the place and clicking on things of its own accord. I had to take it back to them three times before they finally fixed it. It also has a really annoying habit of when you are working and the screen suddenly goes blank (sort of grey colour) and I have to switch it off and back on again, losing anything you were doing. As it only does it when it's been on for a couple of hours or more they didn't find anything wrong. ARSE To be fair it is pretty fast when there is a decent wireless internet signal (a rare thing here)

[Minimad5]

It also has a really annoying habit of when you are working and the screen suddenly goes blank (sort of grey colour) and I have to switch it off and back on again, losing anything you were doing. As it only does it when it's been on for a couple of hours or more they didn't find anything wrong. ARSE

I think that is the Inverter for the screen.Something as simple as leaking caps can cause this (Happened on a REALLY old dell that i had - Windows 98 )