1973 Vauxhall Viva… untouched since ‘93 - worth it?

[alcyonecorporation]

We're six pages in and there is no salient information. 

Is it really that exciting, or do I need to look up from my screen once in a while? 

[High Jetter]

Didn't a blue Hunter win a significant rally? Discuss, I need sleep.

Has anyone laid eyes on this Viva as yet?

[warren t claim]

1 minute ago, alcyonecorporation said:

We're six pages in and there is no salient information. 

Is it really that exciting, or do I need to look up from my screen once in a while? 

Not really, just sad old men like me wallowing in the pit of nostalgia. 

[eddyramrod]

3 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

The Alpine/Rapier predated the Capri and had American styling.

They did!  Alpine and Rapier were two different cars in the beginning (Rapier 1953 or so, Alpine 1959) but both competed against the Consul Capri (1961-63).  The Arrow versions appeared in 1968, a year or so before the mk2 Cortina based Capri that we now universally call mk1, and by the time they were dropped, the Capri had become the Capri II.

[alcyonecorporation]

4 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

Not really, just sad old men like me wallowing in the pit of nostalgia. 

carry on

[warren t claim]

3 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Didn't a blue Hunter win a significant rally? Discuss, I need sleep.

Has anyone laid eyes on this Viva as yet?

I remember watching a YouTube video about Hunters racing in a production class at Oulton Park.

[eddyramrod]

4 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Didn't a blue Hunter win a significant rally?

London to Sydney, as modelled by Corgi, who then spectacularly failed to exploit the casting!  And yes, the Hunter was a surprisingly effective racing saloon.

[warren t claim]

2 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

They did!  Alpine and Rapier were two different cars in the beginning (Rapier 1953 or so, Alpine 1959) but both competed against the Consul Capri (1961-63).  The Arrow versions appeared in 1968, a year or so before the mk2 Cortina based Capri that we now universally call mk1, and by the time they were dropped, the Capri had become the Capri II.

I'm sure the Arrow Rapier looked like a Barracuda?

[eddyramrod]

It totally did!

[alcyonecorporation]

2 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

I'm sure the Arrow Rapier looked like a Barracuda?

Roy Axe apparently got pissy whenever that was brought up. 

[warren t claim]

1 minute ago, eddyramrod said:

It totally did!

But here in the UK a quirky fastback coupe with a limited range of engines and  a right hand parking brake was ever going to compete against the Capri.

[warren t claim]

2 minutes ago, alcyonecorporation said:

Roy Axe apparently got pissy whenever that was brought up. 

That can't be true! It's like the designer of the original Audi 100 coupe claiming he'd never seen a picture of an Aston DBS!

[warren t claim]

Anyway, back (almost) on topic. No way was the HB Brabham Viva an alternative to a Lotus Cortina even though probably fewer of them survive today.

[alcyonecorporation]

1 minute ago, warren t claim said:

Anyway, back (almost) on topic. No way was the HB Brabham Viva an alternative to a Lotus Cortina even though probably fewer of them survive today.

HB Brabhams were impossible to define. You could have bought anything from a set of stripes to the whole catalogue and both counted as 'Brabhams'. 

[alcyonecorporation]

9 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

But here in the UK a quirky fastback coupe with a limited range of engines and  a right hand parking brake was ever going to compete against the Capri.

A limited range of engines, a right hand parking brake and pricing by crack pipe, indeed. 

[warren t claim]

1 minute ago, alcyonecorporation said:

HB Brabhams were impossible to define. You could have bought anything from a set of stripes to the whole catalogue and both counted as 'Brabhams'. 

And the HB was offered in 2000cc power at the same time. 

[warren t claim]

1 minute ago, alcyonecorporation said:

A limited range of engines, a right hand parking brake and pricing by crack pipe, indeed. 

And recirculating ball steering is hardly the done thing on sporty coupes as well!

[warren t claim]

Could be worse though.

[eddyramrod]

Didn't @Cavcraft have one of those?

[AnthonyG]

Avengers started out with 1250 and 1500 engines, which got larger in mid 73 to 1300 and 1600.
Some works rally Avengers - developed with the help of BRM - had 1800 engines out of Brazilian market Avengers. These were never sold to the public. 

Confusingly, none of these engines were related to the 1500/1725 used in the Minx/Hunter, nor the 1800/2 litre used in the Chrysler 180 series cars. 

No wonder it all went tits-up and was offered for free to the U.K. government in late 1975. They said ‘No thanks’ as they had just taken on BL! 

[warren t claim]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Avengers started out with 1250 and 1500 engines, which got larger in mid 73 to 1300 and 1600. Rally Avengers - developed with the help of BRM - had 1800 engines out of Brazilian market Avengers. These were never sold to the public. 

Confusingly, none of these engines were related to the 1500/1725 used in the Minx/Hunter, nor the 1800/2 litre used in the Chrysler 180 series cars. 

No wonder it all went tits-up and was offered for free to the U.K. government in late 1975. They said ‘No thanks’ as they had just taken on BL! 

What engine was put in the Plymouth Cricket Yank Avengers?

[warren t claim]

3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Avengers started out with 1250 and 1500 engines, which got larger in mid 73 to 1300 and 1600. Rally Avengers - developed with the help of BRM - had 1800 engines out of Brazilian market Avengers. These were never sold to the public. 

 

Did the Brazillian market Avengers only have carpet fitted covering the transmission tunnel?

[AnthonyG]

5 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

What engine was put in the Plymouth Cricket Yank Avengers?

1500 I believe. The Cricket was not a success and was dropped after two years.

Plymouth dealers envied Dodge dealers, who got most of the early to mid 70s Mitsubishi range to play with (albeit all called Colt, like here). 

[warren t claim]

The Avenger was by no means a bad car. Although I've never owned one I have driven a fair few and other than the steering at 50mph which feels like you're arm wrestling Michael J Fox they were a decent enough drive with great handling and the later versions were pretty well kitted out.

[New POD]

1 hour ago, warren t claim said:

The Avenger was by no means a bad car. Although I've never owned one I have driven a fair few and other than the steering at 50mph which feels like you're arm wrestling Michael J Fox they were a decent enough drive with great handling and the later versions were pretty well kitted out.

I remember being in the back seat of my Dad's 1.6, all the way to the Black Forest to go camping. He told me years later than with the roof rack it would top 90 mph down hill on the unrestricted autobaurans. All I remember was camping in the rain. 

[Cavcraft]

4 hours ago, eddyramrod said:

Didn't @Cavcraft have one of those?

The new one, yes. Great little car to be fair.

[Dobloseven]

8 hours ago, warren t claim said:

I've never seen a Mk1/2 Escort used as a taxi but I've seen a few  HCs and Avengers used as private hire cars.

Think there used to be requirements for certain dimensions, certainly by some local authorities , perhaps rear seat width, and the Escort didn't quite meet them. 

[Dobloseven]

7 hours ago, alcyonecorporation said:

We're six pages in and there is no salient information. 

Is it really that exciting, or do I need to look up from my screen once in a while? 

Obviously quite a lot of interest in the Viva that time forgot. Including myself, as it's quite local to me. As I see it, Motorpunk is away in America and is going to pursue the matter further upon his return. 

[lisbon_road]

Would you like a picture of mine to help pass the time until we see it?

Owned since 1984.  They weren't bad cars but the ignition system was really dreadful.  Electronic ignition essential in my view to just get down the road.  The original ignition had horrible distributors which wore out and made it very hard to set the points - had to sort of average the gap.  The cold start system with a ballast resistor worked, but it put the current up across the points which just can't be a good idea.   No doubt that other cars were just as bad.  The gearbox was good, if not especially durable, and made for easy changes.  Tendancy to shear the distributor drive, and yes other cars did that too.  Weber carb improved economy and is stable, though I think Strombergs weren't bad and certainly responsive. 

I think I've written this in a previous post, but if they'd made the Viva with a slightly larger more durable engine and a five speed box, it would have been a fine car.   

 

[Datsuncog]

I seem to remember Jalopy magazine's banger buyer guide summary of the HB Viva being something along the lines of "Vauxhall really tried to rustproof this one - perhaps we should be grateful they didn't succeed."

Seemed a bit harsh, even by their standards.

But they did like to rust, I understand...