project 2003 Audi TT Mk1 1.8T Quattro - Gone!

[Dave_Q]

Seems bizarre, how often do the massive fixings on suspension arms just shear off?

If you are advertising an alignment service you need a way round this unless you only do new cars?

Maybe you'll need to crack them off and clean them up/plusgas etc and take it back?

Pain though when just going to pay a man to do it for you is meant to be the easier option.

[SiC]

Yeah it is annoying as I hoped it would just be sorted. Problem is, it's not a straightforward job and I guess they want something easier. They said they didn't want to start moving stuff and it becomes a £600 job for me. I was like "well if that's what it takes!". Going to go up in a minute to have a chat.

I guess they looked at it and saw it was a 20yr old TT with mismatched and unevenly worn ditchfinders on tatty rims. I'll have a chat and go from there. Glad I didn't hit buy on four Michelin PilotSports just yet!

[SiC]

Picked the car back up and had a chat. 

Essentially the problem is that they're a tyre fitting garage that happens to have bought a hunter wheel alignment rig. I.e. its a bunch of tyre fitters in a shed.

The rear of the car is adjustable on the toe. This involves undoing the fixings at the top of the suspension arm. Those fixings are captive bolts. I haven't looked at them but going by what they have said, if they undo these, they fear they will snap. Being captive they will be an arse to drill out and repair. 

This is looking up at the top of the wheel arch.

Simplified diagram for the rear setup on toe adjustment.

If I come back with those fixings loosened up, they don't mind doing it again. However they weren't sure how they are supposed to adjust it as the car would be weighted down and they'd have to contact Hunter for support.

They didn't charge but then I don't think they actually did anything. He did say his guy spent an hour trying to set it up but looking at the angle of the front wheels, I'm not so sure.

TL;DR they'd rather be changing tyres.

 

Next steps? Not sure. I might see if I can loosen those bolts up or at the very least have a look at them. Also think I need to find a better place for wheel alignment.

Anyone know of any around the Bristol/Somerset area they can recommend?

[N Dentressangle]

Somewhere like this?

http://vw-specialists.co.uk/

Local, VAG specialists, do wheel alignment and could sort it out if it goes tits up.

No experience but they've got plenty of positive reviews.

[timolloyd]

Sounds like you’ve dodged a bullet there.

[SiC]

1 hour ago, timolloyd said:

Sounds like you’ve dodged a bullet there.

At least they were honest that they weren't prepared to work on it. They could easily have attempted it, cocked it up and still passed off & charged.  

[Dave_Q]

I've only ever been for an alignment a couple of times and both times it was at a place that only did alignments. 

Nowhere near you I'm afraid but I got good service at both - one in Nottingham who did an E30 for me and advised me that it was well out on rear camber due to being lowered and not adjustable. 

One here in Huddersfield who didn't even take my money, another garage suggested going there due to inner wear on the front tyres of the A4 and the guy looked at it in the car park and said that there was nothing he could do as they are not adjustable for camber unless you've added adjustment bolts.

I don't think a tyre shed or another general garage who happens to have the kit will have the knowledge of an outfit that just do alignments all day, if such a thing exists near you.

[RoverFolkUs]

10 hours ago, SiC said:

Took the TT in for a wheel alignment this morning.
Just had a call to say they can't do it/don't want to proceed. It's going to need a bit more adjustment than normal but they're fearful of snapping bolts off under the suspension and then it becoming a big job.

Hmm.

I said I understood as they don't exactly want to be liable and have a problem on their hands if it goes wrong. But then also said if I'm prepared to take that risk, will they sort it and how much...

At the moment the wheel is at the 11 o'clock position straight ahead. Also noticed a good chunk of camber on the rear wheels too. So it needs something doing and I don't know if I cba to DIY it on my driveway right now.

This is all very common

I'd be very surprised/disappointed if they couldn't/wouldn't at least touch the front toe, that's the easiest and most foolproof one to do, and not difficult to free off. 

Unfortunately, eccentric bolts on the rear suspension can and do seize up or simply snap when you touch them, because nobody ever touches them! 

The bolts seize into the inner sleeve of the bush, meaning to extract them you will need to cut either end off the bolt and then replace the bush, or entire arm depending on the setup.

After that, you can do your alignment. 

I'd take it to a proper garage if I were you, who are willing to free off everything and replace if need be. And then align it properly. 

A lot of fast fit alignments will only do front toe comfortably

Without making any accusations, a lot of fast fit alignments don't actually touch the adjusters... They simply fiddle with the equipment to pick up a different reading. That'll be £30 then please sir, may the placebo effect take effect. 

Realistically, camber or toe on the rear is usually caused by worn bushes anyway, so new ones wouldn't be a bad thing. 

No matter what anyone says, if bushes are worn it is a complete waste of time carrying out a static alignment when the suspension has so much unwanted slop under driving forces which will knock the alignment out in real time use. 

[RoverFolkUs]

8 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

Seems bizarre, how often do the massive fixings on suspension arms just shear off?

The Ford ones found on the rear of a Focus/Kuga/C-Max/Galaxy etc almost certainly will shear off if you tried to undo them. 

They might come undone if you heat them up red hot, but that just boils the bush and destroys it, and the bolt will probably still be seized in the bush. 

[SiC]

These don't have eccentric bolts on the rear. Only rear toe is really adjustable. This is done by the mounting bolts mentioned above. Unless aftermarket adjustable rear tie rods are used then camber is too. Some slight rear camber adjustment is available by undoing the tierod stretch bolts and adjusting a few mm. 

[SiC]

I've booked it into an alignment specialist on Friday morning. The chap is the one my friendly garage normally uses but I did hear mixed things. Anyway I don't have anywhere better and he had a slot, so it's booked in. He is someone that does have a lot of positive recommendations though and often seems the go to place for alignment. 

We will see what he says/does. I fear that he might refuse again too. If so, I'll be having a weekend at some point replacing suspension mounting bolts!

Tbh it's mostly a winter beater and I just want it driving roughly straight. So even if only the front can be adjusted and straightened, it can't be any worse than it is now. 🤞

[Wgl2019]

@SiC are you able to get under the car and wire brush/ spray the offending bolts with penetrating oil? If left for a couple of days should help the garage and minimise the risk of them breaking.

I find wire brushing first gets rid of any external crap that would otherwise get in on the way of the oil doing its job.

 

[SiC]

16 minutes ago, Wgl2019 said:

@SiC are you able to get under the car and wire brush/ spray the offending bolts with penetrating oil? If left for a couple of days should help the garage and minimise the risk of them breaking.

I find wire brushing first gets rid of any external crap that would otherwise get in on the way of the oil doing its job.

 

I probably yeah. Just not sure I'll find the time before Friday to do so though. The bolts are up top in the wheel arch, so not sure gravity will be much help in getting the fluid in. 

[DeanH]

17 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

I've only ever been for an alignment a couple of times and both times it was at a place that only did alignments. 

Nowhere near you I'm afraid but I got good service at both - one in Nottingham who did an E30 for me and advised me that it was well out on rear camber due to being lowered and not adjustable. 

One here in Huddersfield who didn't even take my money, another garage suggested going there due to inner wear on the front tyres of the A4 and the guy looked at it in the car park and said that there was nothing he could do as they are not adjustable for camber unless you've added adjustment bolts.

I don't think a tyre shed or another general garage who happens to have the kit will have the knowledge of an outfit that just do alignments all day, if such a thing exists near you.

Can I ask where in Huddersfield? I struggle for a good tyre place so resort to the part worn sheds knowing that I'm at least paying crap money for crap service.

[Dave_Q]

10 minutes ago, DeanH said:

Can I ask where in Huddersfield? I struggle for a good tyre place so resort to the part worn sheds knowing that I'm at least paying crap money for crap service.

Small industrial estate off Leeds Road by the DAF truck garage. 

Was a Chinese guy working for himself, didn't catch his name.

Like I said he gave me good advice and came recommended from another garage that fix my van. 

Alignment only though.

[SiC]

Just had a quick Google of TT undersides to get an idea of where these adjustable mounts are. Slightly incorrect from me above when I said they're in the wheel arch. They are slightly more forward than that. You can see them in this picture here by the sill and where the lifting arms are situated.

I can see how they can get very crusty there. I'll have a browse under mine to see what state they're really like. At least I should be able to get to them without jacking it up. That's the only factory adjustable point on these.

You can get adjustable tiebars to alter the camber. The chap at the place I'm going to must know his stuff reasonably well as he asked if I had any aftermarket stuff installed to allow further adjustability. 

All that said, even if I can get the front end toe (steering track rod ends adjustment) and camber (undoing bottom ball joint fixings) adjusted then it should be an improvement. 

[DeanH]

9 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Small industrial estate off Leeds Road by the DAF truck garage. 

Was a Chinese guy working for himself, didn't catch his name.

Like I said he gave me good advice and came recommended from another garage that fix my van. 

Alignment only though.

Interesting. Bumped into an old acquaintance recently and he's working at the garage next door to there. Thanks!

[SiC]

I had a quick look underneath. What do we think my chances of trying to undo these ending up in disaster? 🤔

 

[RoverFolkUs]

21 hours ago, SiC said:

These don't have eccentric bolts on the rear. Only rear toe is really adjustable. This is done by the mounting bolts mentioned above. Unless aftermarket adjustable rear tie rods are used then camber is too. Some slight rear camber adjustment is available by undoing the tierod stretch bolts and adjusting a few mm. 

Sorry, I had replied to your first post before reading the bits on this page where you explained the setup on them 👍

1 hour ago, SiC said:

I had a quick look underneath. What do we think my chances of trying to undo these ending up in disaster? 🤔

 

Hard to tell looking at them, those sort of bolts don't generally cause troubles but of course you won't know without trying. I'd be surprised if they snapped off but I've had perfectly healthy looking bolts catch me off guard before and snap like a carrot!

[SiC]

7 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Hard to tell looking at them, those sort of bolts don't generally cause troubles but of course you won't know without trying. I'd be surprised if they snapped off but I've had perfectly healthy looking bolts catch me off guard before and snap like a carrot!

Tbh looking at the bolts, my biggest concern is more rounding the heads off. If I had time I'd give a go on a impact/breaker bar. Just if they do snap, I won't have time to rectify them before Friday. So it'll probably have to go in as is. 

As DaveQ mentions above, I'm sure they've been experienced in crappy suspension bolts and know what can be risked and what not. The garage he's attached to/part of specialises in tuning Evos and such. So I'm sure if they work on Jap stuff regularly they will be used to rusty undercarriages. 😆 

[Dave_Q]

This was a bit nearer me and £600 a week or two ago.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/747875129934298/

I assume the starter is a massive pain in the arse? If you could roffle off the private plate at £5 a ticket you'd be in this council tastic chariot for under £500.

[SiC]

I don't think it's too bad a job from what I've seen but not changed one myself. Looks to be an absolute heap though. As it's a 180 not worth top money either. 

[DeanH]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

I don't think it's too bad a job from what I've seen but not changed one myself. Looks to be an absolute heap though. As it's a 180 not worth top money either. 

Yes, shame about the paintwork. If it truly just needed a starter it's a bargain. They don't seem hard to do at all.

[SiC]

3 hours ago, DeanH said:

Yes, shame about the paintwork. If it truly just needed a starter it's a bargain. They don't seem hard to do at all.

I've seen 180 in better body condition go for that sort of amount with similar faults though. 

[SiC]

All sorted.

Front toe was out by 11mm - no wonder the steering was miles out. Actually ending up tripping the ESP for a steering angle code - I'll probably have to recalibrate it with a VCDS to make it happy again. Rear camber is out but it's not adjustable. Rear toe slightly out but cancelled each other out. He said it wasn't worth the hassle trying to get it spot on as it is only just out and could open up other problems trying to get it moved. Ended up costing £50 which I thought was reasonable.

I'll probably be back with my Boxster as he clearly knew what he was doing and a whole different league from your average tyre fitter who does the odd alignment after a few hours training.

Now need to decide if I'm going for Michelin PilotSports all round or go for a all weather tyre. PilotSports will be far better in the summer but shite in the winter. However this is supposed to be my winter beater car and the Boxster the summer. Even though I probably will end up using this all year round now.

 

[J-T]

I’ve never found pilot sports shit in winter and I’ve ran them for years. Other ‘summer’ tyres yes.

[SiC]

10 minutes ago, J-T said:

I’ve never found pilot sports shit in winter and I’ve ran them for years. Other ‘summer’ tyres yes.

Admittedly it's RWD with no traction control and different sized tyres but I find my Boxster (always been on PilotSports) can be a bit sketchy on the backend in the cold (sub 5c) when putting the power down. 

[Cookiesouwest]

7 hours ago, SiC said:

All sorted.

Front toe was out by 11mm - no wonder the steering was miles out. Actually ending up tripping the ESP for a steering angle code - I'll probably have to recalibrate it with a VCDS to make it happy again. Rear camber is out but it's not adjustable. Rear toe slightly out but cancelled each other out. He said it wasn't worth the hassle trying to get it spot on as it is only just out and could open up other problems trying to get it moved. Ended up costing £50 which I thought was reasonable.

I'll probably be back with my Boxster as he clearly knew what he was doing and a whole different league from your average tyre fitter who does the odd alignment after a few hours training.

Now need to decide if I'm going for Michelin PilotSports all round or go for a all weather tyre. PilotSports will be far better in the summer but shite in the winter. However this is supposed to be my winter beater car and the Boxster the summer. Even though I probably will end up using this all year round now.

 

Where did you take it?

CRV needs 4 wheel alignment.

[SiC]

Just now, Cookiesouwest said:

Where did you take it?

CRV needs 4 wheel alignment.

This chap. I turned up to book as he didn't answer his phone. But he actually phone me back (as I was almost there). 

FCM Wheel Alignment

https://g.co/kgs/739D4Q

He does Saturday morning appointments too. 

[Noel Tidybeard]

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm