Cars of Crackers: -aborted- Accidental midweek shite collection

[Mrs6C]

While you have the 'telephone handles' off, may I suggest you check that both carburettor pistons go up and down cleanly and don't stick anywhere on their travels?

Lift each in turn with the end of a flat bladed screwdriver and let it drop. It should slide down cleanly and make a distinct 'thunk' when it lands.  A jet needle that is out of true can be enough to make a piston stick in the 'wide open' position and then there is too much air being sucked through at start-up, to provide the necessary enrichment needed to fire.

Also, check that there is oil in both dashpots so that the pistons are damped and not fluttering, which again will cause erratic airflow and mixture for starting.

[Crackers]

Thanks @phil_lihp, @Talbot, @Mrs6C, I will try your suggestions when I have time.

There'll probably be no updates for a couple of days as I haven't got any tinkering time until the end of the week. 

[Crackers]

Let the tinkering commence, let's see if we can get her to start more happily. 

First things first, dizzy cap off. 

How do those contact looks?

This is the first car I've had with one of these. I'll clean them up anyway. 

[Broadsword]

Those don’t look great, not terrible either. Try rubbing them clean with emory cloth and see if that makes a difference. Love the car by the way.

[Crackers]

"Where did I put that contact cleaner when I moved down here?"

I didn't bring it with me it's 50 miles away. 

Cue Halfrauds trip:

[Crackers]

Haven't tried starting it yet having cleaned the Dizzy, but I've just found something which I need some opinions on, and could definitely be causing the poor starting but perfect running! 

I'm trying to upload a video at the minute, but in words I can describe this:

Pulling the choke cable pulls the cable through down to the carb, but no linkages move on the carbs themselves, it's like either the cable has too much slack or isn't attached on one end. It also doesn't move the throttle which I believe should happen with the choke on these. 

Pulling the cable at the carb-end seems to move things nicely, so I'll see if I can adjust the cable. 

Edit: here's the video. 

This is two operations of the choke to its full extent, followed by a couple of pumps of throttle so you can see which bits move. 

 

[Crackers]

Right, so, I'm 99% that my starting problems are caused by this choke cable doing the sum total of nothing.

Trouble is, I can't figure out how to fix it?

The lever on the dash pulls in and out nicely. At the other end, there's no movement. The cable attached to the carb doesn't look like it's slipped,  but the cable sleeve visibly moved when I pulled the lever (as seen on the video) while the cable itself barely gained any tension when pulled, which suggests to me one of two things.

Either:

- The cable has stretched internally and no longer has enough rigidity to push/pull itself back off the carb body.

or,

- The cable has come un-anchored from inside the dashboard and is therefore just pushing the sleeve in and out, therefore causing no movement of the internal cable.

 

I will go back out in a bit to try and get a picture inside the dashboard of the choke cable mounting, as I can't get my head in there to look...

[Crackers]

Ok, a question for anyone who knows these things, answers greatly appreciated:

How far should the choke usually pull out on a P6? I'm wondering if I'm simply not getting enough travel on the lever, but I don't wont to go heaving at it before I know for sure, in case I break something!

[Mr Pastry]

27 minutes ago, Crackers said:

How far should the choke usually pull out on a P6?

From your video the choke lever on the carb doesn't seem to be moving at all.  It should have similar travel to the throttle, maybe not quite as much.  Can you move the choke lever on the carb - where the cable connects - upwards or downwards by hand? You should be able to.  There will, or should, be a linkage between the two carbs so that both chokes operate together.

[Crackers]

Yes, when operated by hand, the choke mech moves freely for its full travel. Operating via the cable produces absolutely zero movement, but I can't see any evidence that the cable has slipped or failed. I jut went and checked and it seems to also still be secure behind the dashboard.

[Mr Pastry]

4 hours ago, Crackers said:

Yes, when operated by hand, the choke mech moves freely for its full travel. Operating via the cable produces absolutely zero movement, but I can't see any evidence that the cable has slipped or failed. I jut went and checked and it seems to also still be secure behind the dashboard.

Well the cable should be able to pull the choke lever all the way up to the stop.  

[mitsisigma01]

https://www.sw-em.com/checkchoke.htm

[High Jetter]

18 minutes ago, Crackers said:

Yes, when operated by hand, the choke mech moves freely for its full travel. Operating via the cable produces absolutely zero movement

Yet in your vid, the outer cable is seen to move a bit, which I don't think it should. Have you tried undoing the clamp on cable at the carb end and pulling any slack through before re-tightening?

[Crackers]

1 minute ago, High Jetter said:

Yet in your vid, the outer cable is seen to move a bit, which I don't think it should. Have you tried undoing the clamp on cable at the carb end and pulling any slack through before re-tightening?

I tried, but I don't have a small enough spanner to undo the clamp. Tomorrow I will take the "telephone handle" off and see if I can get on it with a pair of pliers (don't cringe).

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Has the cable stretched internally?

[mitsisigma01]

23 minutes ago, Crackers said:

but I don't have a small enough spanner to undo the clamp..... and see if I can get on it with a pair of pliers (don't cringe).

Another halfrauds run needed 😉

My neighbour has given me a load of imperial spanners and sockets, I'll have a dig through when I can get to them and see what's there. I might be passing through next week if you are in need. Do you have any old imperial stuff yet? 

 

[Crackers]

4 minutes ago, mitsisigma01 said:

Another halfrauds run needed 😉

My neighbour has given me a load of imperial spanners and sockets, I'll have a dig through when I can get to them and see what's there. I might be passing through next week if you are in need. Do you have any old imperial stuff yet? 

 

I'm sure I remember seeing 1/4" being mentioned somewhere for the cable clamp bolt, I can't find the page now so I could be dreaming. If you're passing by Chichester at any point that would be legendary! Drop me a PM maybe.

[mitsisigma01]

If you've still got spare cash a Halfords advanced or professional 200 piece socket set is a good investment, good mix of metric and imperial small to large sockets etc but usually not every size you need😕. There's a thread on here somewhere 👍

[Crackers]

1 minute ago, mitsisigma01 said:

If you've still got spare cash a Halfords advanced or professional 200 piece socket set is a good investment, good mix of metric and imperial small to large sockets etc but usually not every size you need😕. There's a thread on here somewhere 👍

I've got one of the metric ones. I didn't expect to be buying a 50 year old car! 🤣🤣

[Angrydicky]

@Crackers- just asked ‘erindoors and the answer is 2-3 inches to maximum choke!

[Angrydicky]

Do you have any interior pics to hand?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

18 minutes ago, mitsisigma01 said:

If you've still got spare cash a Halfords advanced or professional 200 piece socket set is a good investment, good mix of metric and imperial small to large sockets etc but usually not every size you need😕. There's a thread on here somewhere 👍

I've had a 30 or 50 piece Halfrauds set for years. Cost twenty quid at the time, I think. Very versatile except for restricted spaces. Unfortunately lost four or five of the metric sockets a while ago when they dropped into the CX's engine bay and were never seen again....

[Crackers]

13 minutes ago, Angrydicky said:

@Crackers- just asked ‘erindoors and the answer is 2-3 inches to maximum choke!

Not sure if euphemism or advice! 

[Crackers]

I'm only getting a pull of about 3/4 of an inch, so that seems a bit suspect to me.

I don't have any interior pics right now, I will try and get some tomorrow as the light is going now.

[Angrydicky]

No, that was what she said, being serious! I can see what you mean though 😂

[Crackers]

28 minutes ago, Angrydicky said:

No, that was what she said, being serious! I can see what you mean though 😂

Well I appreciate the advice! I'm getting nowhere near that much, the lever only comes out about the width of my thumb.

[Angrydicky]

1 hour ago, Crackers said:

Well I appreciate the advice! I'm getting nowhere near that much, the lever only comes out about the width of my thumb.

Yeah she says that’s definitely not right, the choke is barely going to be operating at all.

[Talbot]

Is this a classic BL "pull-n-twist" type choke cable?  If so, you should definitely get at least 50mm of movement, maybe 60mm.  If it's only coming out that far and then stopping, you may have a broken up cable, or some other damage somewhere.  Once you can undo the inner from the choke mechanism, pull the cable off the carbs completely, lay it flat over the engine bay and then see if the choke pull comes out any further.  if so, the cable is internally knackered, and the easiest thing to do is jut buy a new one.  Not too expensive last time I looked (although that was a fair while ago.)

[mitsisigma01]

Back in my dark and distant days, do I remember these as a solid wire rather than a multi strand cable 🤔

[Crackers]

43 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Is this a classic BL "pull-n-twist" type choke cable?  If so, you should definitely get at least 50mm of movement, maybe 60mm.  If it's only coming out that far and then stopping, you may have a broken up cable, or some other damage somewhere.  Once you can undo the inner from the choke mechanism, pull the cable off the carbs completely, lay it flat over the engine bay and then see if the choke pull comes out any further.  if so, the cable is internally knackered, and the easiest thing to do is jut buy a new one.  Not too expensive last time I looked (although that was a fair while ago.)

This is my plan for tomorrow, assuming I can get the bolt out without the right spanner. Hoping the cable isn't knacked, but I wouldn't be surprised. Cheers for the advice.