US imports, Salvage certificates, SVA, Q plates, etc, etc, etc

[dieselnutjob]

I have been looking for many months for an American van to import.  I am very fussy on the specific spec, and this has made finding one (for reasonable $$) difficult.

A couple of weeks ago one came up on a US salvage site, and it's basically exactly what I have been looking for but a non-runner.

I spoke to a shipping company and they said "no problem".  It's not far from the port. If I win the auction they would go pick it up on a flat bed, man handle it into a container and send it.  At this end I have a local guy with a 7 1/2 ton tilt bed says he could pick it up for Tilbury and drop it at my house.

It has the added bonus of likely being cheap because it's a non-runner, which makes the import duty and VAT less.  I even found a supplier of replacement engines who a contact in London has used and seems to be reliable, so even if it's totally knackered it's not a disaster. Far easier to fix than rust, and this is a California vehicle so it doesn't have any.  Most likely it has something simple wrong with the engine, but buried under hours of disassembly to find it, cos that's how these vans are.

But today things got complicated.

The auction site has gotten the "title" back from the current owners (insurance company).  The title is "salvage certificate", so not a title.  This is because the catalytic converter has gone missing and California DMV is very strict about this stuff.

It means that if someone in California were to buy it they basically have to fix it, take it for an inspection, then take the inspection and the "certificate" to California DMV and then they hand over the "title", which would probably be a "salvage title".  It isn't crashed, but it's stolen, recovered and beyond economic repair.

I had a guy lined up to help with paperwork but he has now done a 180 and run off and says that he won't deal with "salvage" and the DVLA will only give me a Q plate.

But maybe I don't actually care?  It's an American campervan not a classic vehicle.  Will anyone actually give a damn if it's a Q plate?  I'm not sure that I care.

The only hassle I can see is that for a vehicle over ten years old DVLA only asks for an MOT pass, and then they will register a vehicle, but apparently because a Q plate has indeterminate age that means that it isn't necessarily over ten years and is affectively built from bits, so a kit car, and therefore needs SVA.

So should I give up and wait (maybe a year) for another?  or just bid very little, win it and import it, SVA it, and Q plate it?  I bet it goes for under $1000 and $3000 would see it sat on my drive.

Anyone got any actual experience?

here is the beast

Normal people say that this sound like impossible hassle, but I'm not normal.  I don't want normal advice.  I enjoy this stuff. I just want to know can it be done and how much will it cost me?

[loserone]

This reads like one of the most sane and sensible US car imports I can imagine.

[dieselnutjob]

more searching...

a vehicle over ten years old needs a normal MOT (£50) whereas this would need a normal IVA (£200) instead.

So the impact appears be £150 and a Q plate.  Doesn't sound like the end of the world to me.

[Billy - Medhurst]

Interesting choice!. I think only Joe public is bothered about Q plated cars if they are modern mondeo's etc. People into vehicles like this understand that Q pates are not a real worry and the vehicles have been inspected etc. In some circles a Q plate is a cherished thing as not that common.

[Mr Pastry]

No recent experience, but it will only get a  Q plate if the date of manufacture is unknown.   AFAIK if it is more than 10 years old IVA does not apply.  So the first thing is, how old is it? 

If it does need IVA it may be difficult and expensive to get it through.

[somewhatfoolish]

GIB! Probably.  

3 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

No recent experience, but it will only get a  Q plate if the date of manufacture is unknown.   AFAIK if it is more than 10 years old IVA does not apply.

A cert from Ford stating the date of build can't be that hard to get? Some companies have offices specifically to deal with 'heritage' guff like this.

[hairnet]

3k doesnt sounds too bad landed

its a hobby just do it

im thinking similar but 2 wheels - its not how much its the fact it might not come here............ buy is cheap the shipping and import is £££ but maybe i dont care

did you pick out curtains yet

bench seat and column shift?

[hairnet]

would you be able to use one of those sites like bmw have or mustangs and old us cars

wang the vin in and itll tell you what colour the guy putting the interior in on the lines grundies were?

that would tell you years etc and vosa hmrc would accept that...?

 

[Zelandeth]

If you do need to go through the IVA...run a mile.

It probably wouldn't have been able to pass a UK IVA test the day it left the factory, never mind after however many years...I would be prepared for that bit being a massive pain.

[dieselnutjob]

I was fully prepared to pay $5000 which would end up costing more like £8 grand actually driving in the UK. I think that this will actually work out cheaper. 

I want a diesel and no one has ever been mad enough to import one before. 

Also the ones already here all have those horrid "day van" windows. 

[dieselnutjob]

1 minute ago, Zelandeth said:

If you do need to go through the IVA...run a mile.

It probably wouldn't have been able to pass a UK IVA test the day it left the factory, never mind after however many years...I would be prepared for that bit being a massive pain.

This is probably the actual problem 

[Zelandeth]

4 minutes ago, dieselnutjob said:

...

Also the ones already here all have those horrid "day van" windows. 

Same issue I had when I went looking for an Astro a few years ago.

Found a load of day vans, but not one in the spec I wanted...which was the "normal" version in the US.  Getting the one I was driving at the time over was going to wind up being something like five grand...before even buying the van, dealing with import duty etc...

[DodgeRover]

What's wrong with a petrol V10? Salvage title isn't an issue, DVLA have been known to register without title anyway but chances are nobody will touch it to export without title papers.

I've been looking for a nice V8 Econoline over here for ages and they just don't come up especially in tradesmans (non window) van spec and they are strong money when they do.

IVA isn't a BIVA so it's do able, I would ask one of the regular importers about it.

California nothing matters for testing other than the emissions so don't be surprised if there is a load of stuff broken or bodged.

Got a link for the auction site?

[dieselnutjob]

I don't want a share a link to the auction.

I have started reading this though https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/930247/individual-vehicle-approval-inspection-manual-passenger-vehicles.pdf

at page 28 it starts talking about all the stuff that they don't bother inspecting in IVA if a vehicle has USA / Canada type approval.  There is a long list of exemptions.

[Ian_Fearn]

I’ve considered importing from the USA and always thought it only makes sense to import the very best cars. Importing something with a questionable history is going to be an unnecessary world of pain.

On the other hand, I have invested the time registering an ex army vehicle with the DVLA and it was very easy with good support from the DVLA on the phone so by all means, give the DVLA a call and see what they say.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, dieselnutjob said:

I have been looking for many months for an American van to import.  I am very fussy on the specific spec, and this has made finding one (for reasonable $$) difficult.

A couple of weeks ago one came up on a US salvage site, and it's basically exactly what I have been looking for but a non-runner.

I spoke to a shipping company and they said "no problem".  It's not far from the port. If I win the auction they would go pick it up on a flat bed, man handle it into a container and send it.  At this end I have a local guy with a 7 1/2 ton tilt bed says he could pick it up for Tilbury and drop it at my house.

It has the added bonus of likely being cheap because it's a non-runner, which makes the import duty and VAT less.  I even found a supplier of replacement engines who a contact in London has used and seems to be reliable, so even if it's totally knackered it's not a disaster. Far easier to fix than rust, and this is a California vehicle so it doesn't have any.  Most likely it has something simple wrong with the engine, but buried under hours of disassembly to find it, cos that's how these vans are.

But today things got complicated.

The auction site has gotten the "title" back from the current owners (insurance company).  The title is "salvage certificate", so not a title.  This is because the catalytic converter has gone missing and California DMV is very strict about this stuff.

It means that if someone in California were to buy it they basically have to fix it, take it for an inspection, then take the inspection and the "certificate" to California DMV and then they hand over the "title", which would probably be a "salvage title".  It isn't crashed, but it's stolen, recovered and beyond economic repair.

I had a guy lined up to help with paperwork but he has now done a 180 and run off and says that he won't deal with "salvage" and the DVLA will only give me a Q plate.

But maybe I don't actually care?  It's an American campervan not a classic vehicle.  Will anyone actually give a damn if it's a Q plate?  I'm not sure that I care.

The only hassle I can see is that for a vehicle over ten years old DVLA only asks for an MOT pass, and then they will register a vehicle, but apparently because a Q plate has indeterminate age that means that it isn't necessarily over ten years and is affectively built from bits, so a kit car, and therefore needs SVA.

So should I give up and wait (maybe a year) for another?  or just bid very little, win it and import it, SVA it, and Q plate it?  I bet it goes for under $1000 and $3000 would see it sat on my drive.

Anyone got any actual experience?

here is the beast

Normal people say that this sound like impossible hassle, but I'm not normal.  I don't want normal advice.  I enjoy this stuff. I just want to know can it be done and how much will it cost me?

I would not worry about the UK side of things

even if the DVLA wont recognise the "Salvage certficate" as offical paperwork (which they might actually do if it clearly states when the vehicle was first registered and made)

 

if its over 10 years old then it wont need a IVA, and as to proving that it is over 10 years old if you dont have the official registration documents that say when it was first registered or made, then the DVLA will accept a dating letter

either one from a suitable car club in the case of old vehicles, and for more modern vehicles a dating letter directly from the vehicle manufacturer

(and id be surprised if you could not get a dating letter for such a vehicle)

 

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/registering-an-imported-vehicle

Quote

If you do not have the original foreign registration certificate, DVLA might accept other proof of the manufacture date, for example a letter from the manufacturer or a vehicle enthusiast club.

 

[dieselnutjob]

more pics here

a contact in USA tells me that it's likely a  "fleet/government van based on the side steps and the antenna mount on the side"

[dieselnutjob]

this is what a California salvage certificate looks like

[Low Horatio gearbox]

I've no experience in this personally... yet.

As said it's not likely the DVLA will kick up a fuss about a salvage title such as this would have. It's been "written off" on a technicality for emissions in a very emissions tight/legislative state.   As you said it Amay end up being cheaper to buy and import in  it's current state.

If the worst happens and it's on your driveway but useless at $3k/5k -£8k  would you be ok with it?

Best bet is to speak to the DVLA direct and ask if such a  technical write off would matter with registering it. I have actually found them to be quite good on the phone when I needed clarification on historic conical tax/registration. They would also clarify the Q plate and mot / iva  (I'd say it would get an age related plate not a Q and be a boggo mot)

 

I can understand your  situation as there are a few US cars I want but specific year/model and it's probably going to be easier to just find one in the US over  hoping one will turn up for sale in the UK (out of probbaly  1 or 2 that may exist in the uk)

[Dave_Q]

Over on the "low cost big liability" thread there was a new Skoda of some sort (Kodiaq?) which was like 2 years old and on a Q plate.

The auction for it on ebay said it was on a Q as it was imported Australian salvage which we thought was a bit odd.

Cort16 did some sterling detective work and found out that it was indeed true that DVLA had put it on a Q - there was no question of the age or ID of the vehicle but they insisted it be given a DVLA VIN and a Q plate. 

There was even some FOI stuff from the person who imported it complaining to the DVLA which covered the fact that there is no written guidance on what happens in this situation, the complainant got £50 due to the general poor quality of responses from DVLA. But was stuck with the Q plate.

So I reckon it will go on a Q for sure, DVLA seem well vexed about foreign salvage for some reason. 

Only question I have, I recall you posting that you want something like this as you think it will not be subject to LEZ/ULEZ? 

Will the Q plate affect that?

[Dave_Q]

The Kodiaq-chat starts somewhere about here: 

  

On 25/10/2020 at 13:02, cort16 said:

I contacted him it was because it was imported and damaged . The dvla have issued it a new vin no. No details on its history .

I've now gone down the rabbit hole on this and found this in a document regarding DVLA complaints. 

 

Complaint: Mrs AB imported an accident damaged car from Australia. She complained that the DVL refused to register it under its original identity.

Agency response: The DVLA told Mrs AB that, because the car had been marked as a statutory write-off by the Australian authorities, it could only be registered under a Q plate unless Mrs AB could obtain evidence from the Australian authorities that it could be returned to the road under its original identity. In correspondence with Mrs AB, the DVLA told her repeatedly that the identity of her car was in question.

ICA outcome: The ICA noted that the rules on imported salvage were not enshrined in a clear policy statement available to the public. In practice, the well-publicised first registration process was cut across if the car had a salvage categorisation. The DVLA said its policy amounted to a presumption that imported vehicles with certain salvage classifications would be equivalent to category A or B salvage under the UK regime, in other words the vehicle would be unable to retain its original identity and would need to be issued with a DVLA VIN (vehicle identification number). The ICA was critical of this position because in reality category A and B salvage cannot return to the road under any UK regime. Nor did the guidance on Q plates make it clear that a vehicle whose true age and identity was not in doubt could still be issued with a Q plate if it was foreign salvage. The ICA understood that the DVLA’s position was based on its view that road safety and consumer protection were of paramount importance. However, in his view an unpublished policy cut across the Ombudsman requirements of transparency and clarity. He therefore recommended that the DVLA publish clear guidance about its approach to registering foreign salvage, and review the information that its complaints handlers provided to customers. This information majored on vehicle identity when in reality the identity of the vehicle per se was not the root cause of the registration problem. He also recommended 47 that Mrs AB should receive a consolatory payment of £50 to reflect the poor quality of responses she’d received from the DVLA during the course of her complaint.

 

Also it seems the appeal to take it off the Q plate can only in theory be made by the first keeper within 12 months.

 

[cort1977]

Salvage title might cause issues getting it out of the US, the exporters are not keen without a clear title in case there is any comeback on them. Think @Dan302 had an issue with the title on his Mercury.

Would agree that an IVA and Q plate wouldn't be much of an issue. I really like these, used to see the odd Quigley conversion that always seemed like a great idea.

[DodgeRover]

The Australian write off bit is wierd they explicitly state the vehicle is not to go back on the road.

 

Sorry Chief I didn't want a link to your vehicle just the name of the auctions when it has gone through, didn't realise yours was a window van

[Dan302]

6 minutes ago, cort1977 said:

Salvage title might cause issues getting it out of the US, the exporters are not keen without a clear title in case there is any comeback on them. Think @Dan302 had an issue with the title on his Mercury.

Would agree that an IVA and Q plate wouldn't be much of an issue. I really like these, used to see the odd Quigley conversion that always seemed like a great idea.

Erm......definitely wasn't me

[cort1977]

Just now, Dan302 said:

Erm......definitely wasn't me

Ah, sorry.

I remember someone had an issue where there was an problem with the title and the original owner had to apply for a new title in some flyover state when the car was already sitting at the dock for export. Right load of chew.

[dieselnutjob]

25 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Only question I have, I recall you posting that you want something like this as you think it will not be subject to LEZ/ULEZ? 

Will the Q plate affect that?

I don't live in ULEZ because I am outside of the North Circular.

However LEZ is an issue.  Basically LEZ applies to diesel commercial vehicles.

A vehicle has to be registered as a "diesel car" (M1) and then it's ok.  If it's registered as a van (N1) or minibus then you're screwed.

This is why I need the "passenger van" variant because I need to register it as a passenger vehicle, aka, a car.

I also need to de-rate it to 3500kg.  In USA they are rated at 4300kg but I am told that DVLA are okay with de-rating.

[dieselnutjob]

interesting snippet from the thread about the Skoda

"Agency response: The DVLA told Mrs AB that, because the car had been marked as a statutory write-off by the Australian authorities, it could only be registered under a Q plate unless Mrs AB could obtain evidence from the Australian authorities that it could be returned to the road under its original identity. In correspondence with Mrs AB, the DVLA told her repeatedly that the identity of her car was in question."

In the case of this van that is not in question. The California DMV documentation is quite clear that if the vehicle passes inspection then they will give the holder of the salvage certificate a salvage title, with which the owner can drive it.

This van is effectively near worthless in USA now, it's a non running 15 year old van with the hated 6.0 powerstroke diesel that even if repaired (at some expense) would still only have a Salvage title.

In the UK it's a cool old USA van on a Q plate.

[DodgeRover]

What Euro rating will that engine be? I run LPG/ petrol because of the LEZ

[dieselnutjob]

It won't have a Euro rating. It will be a diesel car with no emissions rating. 

[DodgeRover]

Aren't diesel cars verboten now from the expanded ULEZ like non euro 4 motorcycles?