The grumpy thread

[trigger]

Yeah I hate people like that who give their photos away...

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

C'mon, surely some of them actually enjoy photography for the sake of it, just like the people who make OpenOffice enjoy writing code.

 

The truth is that photography is so accessible nowadays...with barriers to entry almost having ceased to exist (as regards both equipment cost and the skill required to take a somewhat passable picture), it's not surprising that prices are dropping to the floor. However, that doesn't make Jon's 'friend' any less of a Juan Kerr.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

"Hi Mr LBAU,

I am calling from a medium sized company with 500 employees and a turnover of 280million.

We've noticed your HR work and wondered of you'd like to come and work for us?

We think 18 hours a week would be ideal.

As you seem to like HR work we have no intention of paying you.

Is that ok?"

 

Tell you what, I may well have accepted such an offer, as I have nothing better to do, and as it's a PHAKT that you can get a job much more easily when you're already working (in fact, the one time I applied for a job while working in another, I got one interview from a single application. My current ratio is about 1.5 interview per 100 applications- of course it could've been a coincidence, but I don't think it was). And you won't find me writing contracts of employment for fun during weekends. OK, maybe you will sometimes, but it's not what I normally do with my free time- AS is much better

 

And most photographers are one or two man bands. Its not like there's some big Microsoft corporation providing 50% of all photography services.

 

True but, again, it's not exactly a market experiencing massive growth. Like everyone else, they have to adapt to the changing environment if they are to survive.

 

The truth is that photography is so accessible nowadays...with barriers to entry almost having ceased to exist (as regards both equipment cost and the skill required to take a somewhat passable picture), it's not surprising that prices are dropping to the floor. However, that doesn't make Jon's 'friend' any less of a Juan Kerr.

 

How is the skill becoming more accessible exactly?

 

Mostly because digital technology has eliminated the opportunity cost of taking extra shots. In other words, as long as your time is cheap enough, you can afford to take literally thousands of pictures before choosing the one(s) you want, without having to worry about the costs of the film or its development.

[maxpower]

my grump............ umming and ahhhing over whether to buy shite that was on offer, by the time i make up my mind it's been sold

[Cavcraft]

Fucking eBay. Mobile phone ended, chuffed with the final price, send invoice. Checks e-mails this morning, eBay have messaged me to say highest bidder isn't registered with eBay (how did that happen when they bid?) and not to accept payment as it'll be bent.

Brilliant, never mind I'll send a second chance offer to next highest bidder. Except I can't because eBay have removed the item ('no longer available') so I can't see who else has bid on it

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Surely you could send them a nasty letter giving them a choice between compensating you for the losses they caused to you or see you at the small claims court?

[Cavcraft]

eBay have said listing fees will be refunded but it's still crap as I needed the money and don't especially want to re-list it as it'll probably happen again. They did suggest listing it with a 'buy-it-now' price but (surprise, surprise) that'll cost me more than a 99p start auction.

 

I do have the winning* bidder's name and address though and if I can confirm they are his details then I'm going to have some fun with that.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

But the loss isn't just the listing fees. I'd ask them to guarantee to make up any shortfall between what it was going to sell for and the amount it reaches the second time around. The fact that they let somebody bid on it and subsequently disqualified them from the auction clearly shouldn't be your problem!

[scaryoldcortina]

Using their site means accepting their terms....

 

You will not hold eBay responsible for any loss you may incur as a result of eBay taking any of the actions described in the Abusing eBay section above nor for other users' actions or inactions......

We(including our parent, subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, directors, agents and employees) shall not be liable to you in contract, tort (including negligence) or otherwise for any business losses, such as loss of data, profits, revenue, business, opportunity, goodwill, reputation or business interruption or for any losses which are not reasonably foreseeable by us arising, directly or indirectly, out of your use of or your inability to use of our sites and services.

 

There are a lot of policies that you agree to just by using eVilbay. I also suspect they can pay their legal team a lot more than you can.

 

Also, if you are worried about giving photos and other creative content away, check this one out...

 

When you give us content, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all copyright, publicity, trade marks, database rights and intellectual property rights you have in the content, in any media known now or in the future. In addition, you waive all moral rights you have in the content to the fullest extent permitted by law.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Using their site means accepting their terms....

There are a lot of policies that you agree to just by using eVilbay. I also suspect they can pay their legal team a lot more than you can.

 

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. I just got 90 quid back from an airline (delayed luggage) just by hinting at the above piece of legislation. As for lawyers, legal claims are assigned to the court local to the plaintiff, meaning that their expenses for coming up to Chester from London or wherever would probably be higher than the value of the claim and, as it's small claims court, probably wouldn't get them even if they won the case. On the basis of managing that risk, they'd just shut up and pay up.

 

Disclaimers: No warranty given or implied, DYOR, IANAL etc.

[dollywobbler]

Well said Tayne. Pisses me off that more and more people seem to expect something for nothing. It's the same with music. People seem to baulk at paying a few quid to see a live band. How do they expect performers/photographers to survive?

 

Luxo - if you don't mind working for nothing, perhaps you can speak to Tesco/Sainsbury about this 'wonderful' work experience/job seekers' allowance package?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I don't view things as black-and-white...As for corporations, corporatism and market distortions, I have been fighting that kind of stuff all my life (spending wads of cash and even standing in elections and such), although from a liberal/libertarian angle as opposed to a left-wing one. There's obviously more to photography than taking pictures on 'fully automatic', but the thing is that 95% of the time you can get a result that's good enough without being a guru. That's why prices have dropped to the floor and why you can't really make a living as a photographer anymore (unless you have good upper-class contacts that give you work in weddings and other social occasions).

 

I didn't make a value judgment on whether the above is good, bad or ugly. I just said it's pointless to hate people for doing something they love.

 

DW, I don't believe in the JSA and have never signed on (before you lot jump at me, that's not meant to be a damnation of people who do sign on- I fully understand what they're going through and may even have to resort to it myself in the future), so it would be a no-go.

[Negative Creep]

When it comes to a mobile wouldn't it be a lot less hassle just to sell it to somewhere like CEX or Envirophone?

[gtd2000]

A mate of mine is a professional photographer (http://www.morozzo.co.uk/) and from what I gather makes a decent living out of his passion.

 

I have to say that there are a lot of people calling themselves "photographers" that simply charge a fee for taking snapshots that are not making a statement.

 

My GF has taken numerous shots of our son that surpass anything a professional photgrapher has composed of him and she merely has in interest in taking pics. In fact, as a result she's done several photo-shoots for friends.

 

Photography really is an art form (when composed properly).

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

There's obviously more to photography than taking pictures on 'fully automatic', but the thing is that 95% of the time you can get a result that's good enough without being a guru.

 

Really?

Do you really think that?

 

I don't think that. I don't consider myself to have the requisite expertise to critique the work of photographers, whether they are amateur or professional. However, the non-paying 'clients' do just that in voting with their wallets!

 

I didn't make a value judgment on whether the above is good, bad or ugly.

 

Looks to me as though you judged it "good enough".

 

See above.

 

 

Out of curiosity why don't you offer your HR services to big corporations for free?

You said above you'd work for free if asked. Surely offering yourself for free is the best way to find paid work...

 

Making an offer doesn't mean that it'll be accepted. I have tried, but I have been unsuccessful and it's not hard to see why. I have two HR degrees plus a professional qualification, speak 4 languages and have HR work experience in 3 countries. How would you rate the chances of my offer making it past the HR Officer who has a couple of A-levels and maybe done just the first part of the professional qualification (which, to be totally fair, may be adequate for 90% of the work they do)?

[gtd2000]

Making an offer doesn't mean that it'll be accepted. I have tried, but I have been unsuccessful and it's not hard to see why. I have two HR degrees plus a professional qualification, speak 4 languages and have HR work experience in 3 countries. How would you rate the chances of my offer making it past the HR Officer who has a couple of A-levels and maybe done just the first part of the professional qualification (which, to be totally fair, may be adequate for 90% of the work they do)?

 

This, unfortunately, is a very bad position to be in

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

As you don't seem to understand what's being discussed yet have made up figures and are now disagreeing with yourself I see no point in continuing this.

 

I just said "don't hate people for doing something they love", and people have jumped at me. Do you disagree with the quoted statement?

[messerschmitt owner]

I work in the media. Publishing, to be precise.

 

Employers in the media and arts can take the piss when it comes to salaries, perks or lack of same, etc., as there are literally thousands of people who want to work in these industries - doesn't matter if it is journalism, photography, publishing, theatre, tv, etc., someone will do the work for next to nothing or even nothing just to get something for their CV.

 

End of!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Making an offer doesn't mean that it'll be accepted. I have tried, but I have been unsuccessful and it's not hard to see why. I have two HR degrees plus a professional qualification, speak 4 languages and have HR work experience in 3 countries. How would you rate the chances of my offer making it past the HR Officer who has a couple of A-levels and maybe done just the first part of the professional qualification (which, to be totally fair, may be adequate for 90% of the work they do)?

 

This, unfortunately, is a very bad position to be in

 

Indeed...I'm starting to seriously think about PhDs now, even if they are not in my own area of research expertise, because there doesn't seem to be much of another way out.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I work in the media. Publishing, to be precise.

 

Employers in the media and arts can take the piss when it comes to salaries, perks or lack of same, etc., as there are literally thousands of people who want to work in these industries - doesn't matter if it is journalism, photography, publishing, theatre, tv, etc., someone will do the work for next to nothing or even nothing just to get something for their CV.

 

End of!

 

Exactly. Pure supply and demand at work, probably a difficult situation for some but absolutely no reason to hate anyone...

[Cavcraft]

When it comes to a mobile wouldn't it be a lot less hassle just to sell it to somewhere like CEX or Envirophone?

 

Yeah, it is an option but I heard bad things about one or two of those companies recently. Certainly worth a bash as a last resort!

[Guest]

Christ.

 

I appear to have opened up a can of worms.

 

I am not saying for one moment that unpaid work is below me. I do not consider myself a professional photographer in any sense of the word - what I object to was the way Shandy Photo Boy made his comments (via SBM's mate rather than face-to-face), post up a laughable portfolio as evidence of his 'skills' and then offer me a pointless sub-runner 'job' after a barrage of sniping and unhelpful comments as a means of 'getting better'.

 

I can only compare it to a placement I did at radio station in Stockport. If you know Stockport, you know the one I'm talking about. The head of news spent ages with me, and whilst he wasn't complimentary about the previous reads I'd done, showed me how to improve and offered feedback on any bulletins I was to do in the future. I left there with a better understanding of what was required, rather than feeling patronised.

[trigger]

What sort of phone is it Billy and how much did it end for?

[Cavcraft]

HTC Desire HD, boxed and pretty much as good as new. Ended up at something like £147.19.

[trigger]

£147 was a good price, compairemymobile ( http://www.comparemymobile.com/recycle/ ... re-hd.html ) says it's worth up to £129 as a brand new trade in, I used cashberry last week for my old phone and they paid up within a week of me posting it to them.

 

These one's are offering the best deal but i haven't used them before. http://www.money4machines.co.uk/product ... re-hd.html

[Cavcraft]

Thanks lads, Cash4machines have offered £126.00 so will see what happens.

[chaseracer]

Can someone hammer a less tedious thread over this one? Much obliged...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What a torrent of shite, can someone hammer a good thread over it?

[greengartside]

MASSIVE FUCKING GRUMP, YO.

 

As some of you on here may know, I have recently split up with my long-term partner and moved back home from the flat we used to rent. We were meant to be there until April but because it's a contract we still have to pay the rent until the 6th April (official moving-out date). She's still living in the flat though. She has no job and is claiming housing benefit but her payment could take up to 4 weeks to arrive, so all in all we are a month's rent behind at the moment because of that.

 

I get a text message from my landlord this morning basically saying that if we don't pay the month's rent and the rent in arrears in full by the end of the tenancy then they will have no alternative but to undertake legal action and court appearances. We would also have to pay for court costs and incur a CCJ because we didn't pay on time. So now I'm fretting because a) she's not going to get paid until the end of next month, a cost of indeterminate value so it could be less than the rent and I'm not exactly flush myself and can only afford to pay my half for the month's rent. I have umpteen bills to pay from the fallout of the break-up and I feel that I will be struggling to get anywhere I really don't know what to do.

 

Also the fact that I was going to try and get an engine and gearbox for the MG next month - well that's not going to happen now. And I needed the car ready for my cousin's wedding in May, as I don't trust the 106 to get up there and back as it's misbehaving badly at the moment. I'm so fucking stressed and worried. I thought moving back home would be easier but it's not. FUCK'S SAKE.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Yeah, I agree with the guys above. Tayne, let's just leave it here. It's just a cyclical argument that makes everyone even grumpier! Have a soft-top Trabbie to cheer you up!

 

 

Bloody hell, GGS. Sorry to hear that. Try and talk with your landlord (in writing if possible, preferably e-mails but texts are OK too) and pay as much as you can whenever you can...Don't wait till you have the exact amount you owe. Don't worry too much though, eviction is not a straightforward process and you wouldn't be kicked out because you are 1.5 month in arrears, especially if you can show the court that you're making an attempt to sort things out.

 

Assuming the landlord isn't a total numpty, he will be aware of the above and will not go any further than threatening you with legal action. Just make sure to be as open and co-operative as you can- this way, you both minimise the chances of being taken to court and bring yourself to the best possible position to defend the case if it does end up there.