61 Chang Jiang. Perfect for essential journeys.

[scdan4]

8 hours ago, martc said:

Have you found this bit on the Dutch site? Its concerned with assembling one from a crate but it may contains some of the settings details you will need although some of the advice seems to be for specific engines...

http://www.fallschirmjager.net/Vehicles/Motorcycles/BMWTechnical/Assembly.pdf

That looks well useful and is gently comical, "they've never been packed the same way twice" Gives a bit of insight to the work practices 🤣

How old is it actually? 

 Engine and gearbox stamped with the same number, but that's Quite a big number, so maybe not that old? But... 

Frame plate. Bottom field stamped 61(gap)1 and It's a 6 volt with only a kick start. That makes me think it might be 61 as claimed. 

It's still a handsome beast in my opinion 

It will get a declutter and wire and cable tidy. Less is more with this one. 

Someone has cared for it, tidy lock wiring on the tank mountings 

Stainless fixings here and there 

Recentish Date written on battery 

The tail light is unutterably gorgeous 

And the air cleaner seems to be, deliberately and as intended, full of horse hair? 

All in all a pleasing nose about. Then had a good fiddle and prod. And then.. 

 

It only bloody worked. 😁 Brum Brum. 

 

I had to put it away then as I had no helmet and insurance and it was taking all my self control to not go out for a ride. 😁 

 

 

 

 

[somewhatfoolish]

57 minutes ago, scdan4 said:

That looks well useful and is gently comical, "they've never been packed the same way twice" Gives a bit of insight to the work practices 🤣

How old is it actually? 

 Engine and gearbox stamped with the same number, but that's Quite a big number, so maybe not that old? But... 

Frame plate. Bottom field stamped 61(gap)1 and It's a 6 volt with only a kick start. That makes me think it might be 61 as claimed. 

 

 

Someone has cared for it, tidy lock wiring on the tank mountings 

 

Could as easily be 73 with those numbers; without other clues it's a bit hasty to judge by the 6V and kickstart, especially attached to something made behind the iron or bamboo curtain; Royal Enfield were still punting 6V machines in the 1980s.

[tooSavvy]

^^^ ..... yes, of course 'radio dating' the steel frame as 'before Bikini Atoll tests' doesn't help here 😕

[scdan4]

No ht leads in the distributer cap 

But there are points lurking in it 

So I guess it has high tech ignition of some sort, probably located in this box of tricks near the battery. 

As you can see it's had a rewire with blue crimp terminals. 

It's clearly not the worst job, but it's not the greatest either, there is a melted bulb connector there and no attempt to include the high beam tell tale in the circuit. I don't think I'm going to junk it all and redo it with modern minimal battery and spark maker, but I might. 

Managed to start it with a mere 18 kicks from (really quite) cold, so I'm getting the technique refined a bit. Still not found any hint of a choke mechanism so am considering buying a tin of easy start. It's been a while since I've wielded one of those! 

[somewhatfoolish]

Dizzy carefully located where it won't be subject to water sprayed from the front wheel.  (just like a load of other bikes of that era).

[martc]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:54 PM, scdan4 said:

How old is it actually?  En

Frame plate. Bottom field stamped 61(gap)1 and It's a 6 volt with only a kick start. That makes me think it might be 61 as claimed. 

It's still a handsome beast in my opinion

The tail light is unutterably gorgeous 

As somewhat foolish says I wouldn't take 6v electrics as proof that it's from the 60's. Most (in fact probably all) Eastern Bloc bikes were 6v and had kickstarts well into the '80s. MZ took the lead introducing 12v electrics (and a front disc) when they launched the ETZ series in the early 80's. As for electric starting none of them, including the Ural and Dnepr to which the Chanjiang is closely related, had them at all. Dneprs have them now but I think it was possibly in the 2000's when they got them.

It is handsome, and that rear light wouldn't look out of place on a pre-war art deco yank tank.

On 12/24/2020 at 2:54 PM, scdan4 said:

So I guess it has high tech ignition of some sort, probably located in this box of tricks near the battery.

That aluminium box does look like it could be electronic ignition and it also looks original but that would mean it's from at least the mid 70's and probably later, but the fact that the old points system is till in place could mean it was either a crossover model converted in the factory but still using the castings for the points model, or it was converted later. If it was converted later - where did the parts come from?

The cable going into the points chamber - that must be for manual advance and retard. Is it connected to the lever on the handlebars? If so I can't see it doing much now...

As for the starting  - I don't want to sound patronising but do the carbs have ticklers on them?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Long shot, but there aren't any original lightbulbs in place still?

most lightbulbs have a date code on them that can be deciphered

so id be happy to have a look at them for you

(although iv never actually seen a vintage Chinese automotive lamp before!)

[scdan4]

23 hours ago, martc said:

 

That aluminium box does look like it could be electronic ignition and it also looks original but that would mean it's from at least the mid 70's and probably later, but the fact that the old points system is till in place could mean it was either a crossover model converted in the factory but still using the castings for the points model, or it was converted later. If it was converted later - where did the parts come from?

The cable going into the points chamber - that must be for manual advance and retard. Is it connected to the lever on the handlebars? If so I can't see it doing much now...

As for the starting  - I don't want to sound patronising but do the carbs have ticklers on them?

 

Yes The cable from the points backplate goes to the advance retard lever on the bars and it definitely works, pulling the cable rotates the back plate and retards the timing so the system is proper crude. If the points are still being used as a spark initiator timer, which I think they are, then I'm not sure what's been gained. 

Apparently I don't know how to suck eggs, look on the top of the float bowl there hiding under the fuel line. It's bouncy. 😁. I will report back. 

[scdan4]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:58 PM, somewhatfoolish said:

Dizzy carefully located where it won't be subject to water sprayed from the front wheel.  (just like a load of other bikes of that era).

Covered in a pretty sturdy ally cover, I do think it'd be pretty waterproof. 

[somewhatfoolish]

6 hours ago, scdan4 said:

Yes The cable from the points backplate goes to the advance retard lever on the bars and it definitely works, pulling the cable rotates the back plate and retards the timing so the system is proper crude. If the points are still being used as a spark initiator timer, which I think they are, then I'm not sure what's been gained. 

It may just be a transistorised system, using the points to just trigger the black box and then a double-ended coil; the advantages are reduced wear of the breaker surfaces, no condenser and a more consistent spark.

[scdan4]

Still loving this and am finding it hard to walk past it without a little fiddle or prod. Ah fuck it was just leaning precariously against the wall not on the hernia inducing stand. Arse. 

Doubly annoying as I did that the same day as I got the insurance sorted. Replacement levers and more importantly a side stand now in the post. The availability and affordability of the replacement levers for my 60 year old classic was rather reassuring, plenty on the Bay. 

Found a frame number stamped into the frame 

It starts 61. That'll do for me I think, I'm gonna say it is a 61 bike. Wiki says the early ones got replacement engines as service items (with no other detail frustratingly) 

Got a more aesthetically pleasing number plate with a little Internet help from here 

It's too shiny and the digits are verging on piss takingly small but looks the part so after weathering it I'll keep it. Experience says that if you're not on a sportsbike no one will ever give a toss. 

Old rear plate with more detail than the old (now removed) front . Anyone know which country it's from? 

Carbs have bleeds /ticklers, hold down to flood fuel into intake (and also out the top of the float bowl and drip drip onto the exhaust), there is a crude choke so close that, retard the timing and in current weather it starts third kick. 😁. Getting better, been practicing. "every time I've seen you recently you've been trying to start that shit old thing...." 

Yep, and I love it. 

[Asimo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_China

Looks like "Foreign owned vehicle" and issued in Beijing.

[captain_70s]

I imagine it could easily be a '61 frame that's been updated at some point to use mechanicals/ignition from a newer version of the bike.

Elements of it seem off for a 70s bike, usually bits like lights/dials are replaced to use cheaper materials or share bits with other tat if nothing else.

[Minimad5]

Stop it, this is a beasty little thing!

A quick eBay shuffle suggests these sort of things are getting out of my budget. Time to start a Ural savings fund 😅

[castros_bro]

We used to get sent the Russian versions, there's quite a lot of mods available (try Lithuanian sellers) and somewhere I've the 2 into1 inlet manifold to fit an SU as mandated for sale in California due to emissions.  Check for reverse as 2 wheel drive  sidecar  hacks were fitted with

.

 

[scdan4]

Essential journeys include mood lifting new bike jaunts in this house . 😀. And cripes I’ve been spoilt by my sewing machinesque Japanese motorcycles, toolstation has never felt so far away. It’s Very low revving, quite vibey (but much better than a buell, you can read the roadsigns) the gearchange works most of the time with only the odd dozen false neutrals, but the whole vibe is heavy and slow until you pull on the brakes and then it all feels heavy and fast. Brakes are ‘shit’ - working as well  as they were intended but they’re just not in the same league as has become the norm. Nice big gaps needed.

Its chucking some shite out of the gearbox output as witnessed up me boot heel

But im unsure whether that counts as a leak yet.

Air filter should be oiled fibres and oil bath but was very dry so I had that off to oil up

And found the choke mechanism underneath 

having a nosey under the valve covers revealed that the left cylinder had no valve clearances to speak of so did some adjusting 

the ones on the right were spot on. Then followed up this with an old stool carb sync  (do one cylinder at a time, pull the ht lead off the other cylinder so it’s not firing and then adjust idle and mixture on the working one. Yeeha 

Gotta keep it cool .

I’m still very much loving it. 

 

[purplebargeken]

Wow, that must surely win AS. Surely.

[bezzabsa]

20hp can still get you into trouble...Especially with zero brakes

 

as for a laugh check out Russians on their Urals on yootoob... some serious stuff out there..

this would probably run on Unkle Boris's Vodka.... extra points if you manage to grind the rocker covers on Islands 

 

[Zelandeth]

Sadly I lack the license to ride anything like that, but I'm finding myself increasingly drawn to bikes like this...the completely anachronistic nature of this beast makes it all the more intriguing.  It looks absolutely the part too I reckon.  I think this is a bike that suits the patina rather than gleaming chrome.

20bhp should be plenty to feel quick on that I'd think, depending on the gearing.  Given the Invacar has 19.3bhp (also from a flat twin, 493cc in this case) and I can vouch for that being entirely capable of 70mph in something weighing 400kg plus change and having probably more than twice the aerodynamic cross section plus the efficiency loses of a CVT belt drive, this should go well I'd think.

Honestly not trying to insert them into every thread, but here it's actually a relevant technical comparison here given the similarities in engine specs!

Really does look like a charming thing.  Love the fish tail exhausts. 

The only thing that I keep having my eye drawn to is the battery.  If it were mine I'd need to make a box to cover it.  ...Or just paint the battery black so it disappears more.

[martc]

15 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

The only thing that I keep having my eye drawn to is the battery.  If it were mine I'd need to make a box to cover it.  ...Or just paint the battery black so it disappears more.

I'm always surprised on older bikes how exposed the batteries can be considering that the problems with mixing elastrickery with water is not a new discovery. Most old bikes had at least a cover over the top of the battery to 'protect' the terminals and cell plugs. But modern batteries, like the one fitted to this ace creation, are simply not designed for covering like this.

It does look like the original battery was just as exposed as the modern one though...

[scdan4]

On 1/14/2021 at 4:58 PM, bezzabsa said:

,

this would probably run on Unkle Boris's Vodka.... extra points if you manage to grind the rocker covers on Islands

The 6 to 1 compression ratio was designed to run on 67 octane, so probably yes. I have every intention of keeping the heads off the deck in all circumstances, far too old for that. 

20 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

It looks absolutely the part too I reckon.  I think this is a bike that suits the patina rather than gleaming chrome.

20bhp should be plenty to feel quick on that I'd think, depending on the gearing.  Given the Invaca.....

Really does look like a charming thing.  Love the fish tail exhausts. 

The only thing that I keep having my eye drawn to is the battery.  If it were mine I'd need to make a box to cover it.  ...Or just paint the battery black so it disappears more.

Thing is there is car quick and there is bike quick, and this isn’t bike quick despite being physically of quick bike size, hence failing the seat of pants test, because it doesn’t hurl you at the horizon with wholesome violence at the sniff of throttle as your arse expects (as, to be fair a 750 should) it’s automatically a Slow Bike. The whole point to a bike is it’s ability to fuck off, if you can’t fuck off it is “slow” which means you’re doing about the same speed as everyone else on the road (like a pleb) and your mates laugh when you tell them what you’ve done.

This happily keeps up with traffic round the 40’s and 50 zones and feels about as quick as a 125 commuter. But it’s so low revving and slow to rev through that it’s a quite relaxing way of just about keeping up with that guy on the ybr125 round the ring road. It’s good fun, and the seats low and softly sprung so you’re bobbing about while its  vibing away and you’re plotting courses to conserve momentum with no mirrors and no indicators grinning like the Cheshire cat inside my helmet. It’s ace, I love it.

Which, being honest is a bit of a fuck up, as this was meant to be a project. I deliberately bought something registered and real old so I could do some projecting. Something like this ish 

Ive always Liked custom stuff even as I’ve always not really liked harleys , as a teen it was magazines like street machine and cal look beetles that I knew someday I would have, and I’ve read* streetfighters (rip) and then back street hero’s magazines since passing my test, so had decided I’d finally gathered  enough skills and resources to have a go at building a proppa choppa -  a girder front end and hidden / internal everything , a total stripped back to the absolute bare minimum thing (hence the desire to avoid her majesty’s mot inspectorate. But, just no. Bah.

I like it too much. It’s got an amazing honest survivor vibe and it already just looks right. 😁. I’ll build it a minimalist battery box and hide a bit more of the wiring behind braiding and just ride the thing 

Which of course means that I dont have a chopper project, but that I have again proved the rule that the correct number of motorcycles one needs is actually is N+1 😁 I’m neither upset nor surprised.

[scdan4]

6 hours ago, martc said:

I'm always surprised on older bikes how exposed the batteries can be 

Where they not removed when not in use as a matter of course? They defo would be taken in the house in winter as they’d not handle cold that well I believe. 

Happily I don’t know as it’s before my time!

[scdan4]

Still loving this. It's so hard to use, it really does make every journey a joyous adventure, which is handy in these miserable times. 

If you stall it you have to get off it, stand beside it, either put it on the stand, which is in itself a right pita or try not to drop it whilst kicking it, very much not a right thumb dab or a right foot flick and kick. 

You need to adjust the timing as you go. If you don't advance it until you can hear the knocking from the cylinders and then back it off a bit then it barely pulls itself along. Obviously the optimal ignition map changes throughout the load and rev range, so for in town riding it needs constant adjustment. 

Gear changes are clutch in, press down firmly, there's a locomotive-esque grouchy clunk crunch, release pressure, clutch out. It cannot be hurried, else you end up with the worlds biggest and stickiest false neutral. You cannot really apply enough pressure with your toes to lift the lever to change up, so to get a higher gear lift your whole foot, twist it to get your heel over the push bit of the lever and push. It's easy to miss the lever, so best look at that rather than where you are going because if you don't press it firm and slow it's straight to false neutral city. 

If you get it all right then you can hurtle off the line, frantically slowly change through all 4 gears as fast as you can then you are as fast as brisk town traffic up to about 50 mph, outer lane of the ring road pace, but that's it as it is still on sidecar gearing. Which is fine, but some longer legs would be an improvement. This is possible but whether I'll bother? Dunno. 

It's got a low c of g and conservative geometry so it handles relatively nicely. There's a definite joy in momentum conservation and line planning to swoop round the bends and roundabouts. Enter the bend with a bit of pace, brake to the apex...... Fuck fuck fuck 

First failure. There are more enjoyable ones than the rear brake becoming disconnected but we lived. 😁 

A short time later a socket cap screw had its head filed down, a hole drilled in the end for a R clip (or 2),a washer and the missing swivel is suitably replaced 

Pleased with that, game on, back into use and spring is coming so thank fuck for that. 😁 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cavcraft]

That's magic! Agree about shiny plates, they look horrible so as you said, weathering will make it better.

[Mike D]

I missed this before - what an absolute honey 😎

[Asimo]

Bump because it is spring and because I found this from an old BSH. 

[scdan4]

This fucking thing 😂

Road it around and although it was shit, it worked, looked cool and everyone was happy.

One day it refused to start. Absolutely nothing, despite having been fine the week before. Chucked a condenser and points at it which achieved fuck all, chucked a new coil on which also did nowt and then life got in the way.. .. .. we sold a business (where it mainly lived),  moved house ( where it also lived) and during that it went to stay with a mate of a mate who was going to 'fix it' but just left it outside to patina more 200 miles away inaccessible from the new house where there wasn't space for it because builders. Bah. Poor thing.

 

Some time later.

It's now had new carbs as the others had no seals left (because ethanol I assume) and the mounting faces were very warped. The old ones put as much fuel into the general atmosphere as the engine, very stinky. An obvious problem so surely that's why it doesn't run. Nope , much kicking later reveled no desire to fire or any sign of life.

The wiring was suspect with lots of blue crimp terminals and the feed for the absent sidecar having just been sheared through, so a rewire was done with the loom being more appropriately fabric wrapped, and hidden away from sight more and with the nasty hex head stainless bolts replaced with black button heads, so it's looking great. A broken wire was found on the back of the generator as we went so hooray that must be it. New battery, battery clamp and master switch whilst we were there.

Kick. Kick. Kick. Fiddle with new 'baselined' carbs. Kick kick kick oh fuck off.

Still no go. Checking over and the spark strength is very poor. The whole distributor unit is wobbly, worn and shit. So more new bits were bought, an electric ignition upgrade unit this time with another new (but matched coil. ) Followed the instructions. Put the tank on, kicked it without much hope and it started 😁. A-mezz-in. Modern tech has it's uses.

Sat there idling nicely. Generator light firmly and brightly on 😖 so not there yet, but it's closer to done than it has been for some while