project 2002 Renault Clio II 172

[scdan4]

What an absolute dickhead of a job.

10/10 for perseverance.

 

[Split_Pin]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Temptation got too much. Sorry for being a bit rambling, I'm no pro for sure!

 

 

God I miss mine and that noise.

Great job chap, whine at cold is normal.

Success!!!

[SiC]

2 hours ago, scdan4 said:

What an absolute dickhead of a job.

10/10 for perseverance.

 

Despite what it looked like, it wasn't that bad. Just that water pump was the biggest PIA and caused me the most grief. Also the project creep and waiting for parts to arrive. 

Think it's been nearly a month now. Irritating I forgot to SORN it last month too!

[SiC]

Started to button this up now I'm on the home straight with it. Been just over a month working on this and will be glad to get it on four wheels. Irritating that I forgot to SORN it last month too. Oh well.

Gave a half arsed attempt with some old Mequiar's headlight polishing kit I found on the shelf. Literally 2 minutes on the drill made a remarkable difference. A lot easier doing this with the lights off the car too.

Before


After


Clear headlights really smarten the front end up on any car Vs them cloudy.


While I was underneath I remembered that rusty section by the engine. Took the padding back out to have a look.

I really can't leave it like this. Even though the metal is still super thick, it will only get worse in the winter.


Some finger power file action got the worse off


Then lobbed some Krust onto it


While that dried I set about on the jacking point. Not sure how people manage this but I imagine it's either the OEM jack falling over or a really rubbish jack.


Used a pair of adjustable spanners to bend it all back in shape. Then a flat headed screwdriver to remake the drain hole.


Then lobbed more Krust on ready for painting today. I don't have any blue paint that's any sort of close match, so this will have to be stone chip black.

One thing that has been bugging me is the child seat warning sticker on the drivers visor. These things are all over them. Both on the top and bottom. I seem to remember Renault retrofitted them after NCAP knocked points off for not having them always visible. As Renault was on a safety initiative at the time, they were ticking all the boxes to get the most stars.

Anyway the drivers side had partially come off and looked extremely tatty.


I don't mind removing this as it should be well known by now not to put a child seat in the front without disabling the airbag. Also there still is 3 other identical warning stickers plastered elsewhere on the visors!


Still not perfectly clean but far better.

Hopefully tonight I can get the last bits painted. Providing it dries the bumper and wheels should be able to go back on finally!

[beko1987]

That bloody airbag sticker was tatty as balls on both my lagunii too

You ever turned the airbag off? Bloody dash lights up the same coloured light as the EML (or does in a lag 2) 

Excellent work on the other stuff too etc

[Split_Pin]

Good save on the jacking point, mine were this bad, which is why I sold it.

Its being welded up though by the current owner.

 

[SiC]

4 hours ago, beko1987 said:

That bloody airbag sticker was tatty as balls on both my lagunii too

You ever turned the airbag off? Bloody dash lights up the same coloured light as the EML (or does in a lag 2) 

Excellent work on the other stuff too etc

This one actually throws its Airbag light up every so often and when I read the code its that switch. After a couple of actuation, it seems to clean the contacts and fix it!

 

19 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

Good save on the jacking point, mine were this bad, which is why I sold it.

Its being welded up though by the current owner.

 

I can say that I've welded up worse

[paulplom]

On 9/29/2020 at 2:25 PM, SiC said:

 

 

 

 

I was nervous for you watching that start up video!

I've got one of those makita torches until I left it under a sink in Morpeth last week.

[spartacus]

What an epic! Great write up, you must have patience by the bucket load.

When's the test drive?

[cort16]

I've just been quoted £400 by a Renault specialist to do the belt and water pump on my Megane after reading through this that seems like quite good value.

Good job though you persevered were others would have fire bombed it.

 

[SiC]

Sprayed black stone chip on all the cleaned areas that had a bit of crustyness.

Chassis leg above the drive shaft. Much better now. Other side wasn't so bad, so scrubbed off the loose rust and sprayed on there.


OEM jack point area is all straight and much nicer.


This was slightly rusty from the plastic bumper rubbing against it. So this got cleaned up and sprayed too.


PAS pipe is very exposed and gone crusty. This stuff is a bit more waxer than the other and isn't over paint-able.


While underneath I noticed that I put the dog bone mount back on upside down. Oops


Easily done and I wonder how many cars go around with this the wrong way


Sprayed this crash beam with some left over blue paint I had. Perfect colour match as you can see.


To be honest you can't see this bit when the bumper is on and anyone coming to it again would much rather be the wrong colour than rust getting worse. Especially as this is a shelf at the front of the car, so highly exposed.
Fitted new headlight washers. So many people blank these off but spend just as much on the blanks as replacement washers. However these are useful things, especially as I'll be using this car in the winter.


Bumper lined up


Bumper back on


Underneath is missing bungs for the seat mounting nuts. No idea where they've gone but these areas lead straight into a box section with holes that go into the cabin. Driving in rain causes spray to be pushed into the carpet. Hence my carpet is rather wet.


Replacement bungs are NLA from Renault. A quick measure made them look about 38mm. That appears to be a standard size for rubber grommets, so I've ordered some and we will see how well they fit. Worse case one that is slightly too small could be Tigerseal in.


As I am getting near to the end of this, I did a quick power up and test all of the functions. One of which was the central locking. Locked it just fine, got out (which unlocks the car) and checked the outside lights all worked. Closed the front door, tried the locks again and noticed that the central locking light didn't stay on. Also the door open light was still on.


Interior dome light was off, so this meant only one thing...


Boot light on. FFS it's actually broken itself while just sat here in the moments I used the lock.

Google suggests this is not a pin switch in the boot but a modern all integrated lock catch microswitch mechanism.

Can of petrol is on the shelf, anyone got some matches to hand??

[SiC]

While I think about it, if/when I'm selling this car in the future and you're reading this thread looking to buy, I've got all the old cambelt parts in boxes. Kinda mostly for proof that I haven't just bought parts and not fitted them. Even if this thread has been long enough so far that it should be clear I haven't done that!

Anyway future buyer, I've probably forgotten about them so remind me and I can give them. If I remember where I put them...

[Kiltox]

Phwoaaar. Fair play to you, you’re getting stuck right into this. 

100/10. 

[SiC]

3 hours ago, paulplom said:

I was nervous for you watching that start up video!

I've got one of those makita torches until I left it under a sink in Morpeth last week.

They're pretty good and cheap to buy. This is my second one as the first was bashed around so much that the top half of the light broke off. Not helped by falling off everything so often. Being cheap, I didn't throw it out and just zip tied that back on!

I use the knock-off batteries on both as they get a lot more abuse. Not only physical and impact, but also drained flat everytime. Also low load so the cheap cells don't need to struggle with power demands. Doesn't do Li-ion cells any good running them flat all the time, so rather kill my cheap packs than my expensive genuine Makita packs!

 

1 hour ago, spartacus said:

What an epic! Great write up, you must have patience by the bucket load.

When's the test drive?

Hopefully not too soon! Just the wheels to go back on now and a few odd jobs like crank sensor, rubber grommets for the floor, dry the floor and steering wheel grips. 

I did intend to replace the transmission oil, but now I've seen that split gaiter I'll probably leave that until that is replaced. Now the weather is turning even more, the Dolomite needs to get under cover and worked on ASAP. So will probably outsource the gaiter to my local garage I use and let them do the fluid change too. 

I've got genuine box fluid to go in, but I might get some cheap stuff from Halfords to top it up in the meantime. No idea on the fluid level but these boxes are notorious for leaking out of their seals. Even if you replace them they end up leaking again. With no record of level checking, I want to make sure it's at a reasonable level. 

Low fluid is one of several problems these gearboxes can have. Renault having gearbox design flaws? Who'da thought! 😆

 

57 minutes ago, cort16 said:

I've just been quoted £400 by a Renault specialist to do the belt and water pump on my Megane after reading through this that seems like quite good value.

Good job though you persevered were others would have fire bombed it.

Not too bad a price! You can't get the genuine parts for the Clio at that price. I wonder if access to the belt end is better on the Mégane? Access is shite on the Mégane anyway but at least it was designed to fit the N/A 2.0l and 1.9 Diesel lumps from the get go. Unlike the Clio where they appear to have shoehorned it in. 

 

22 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

Phwoaaar. Fair play to you, you’re getting stuck right into this. 

100/10. 

Genuinely not as bad as people make out these to be. Follow the instructions and be prepared to jack the engine up and down a lot. Not seen a guide saying remove the alternator, but that removed makes the job a lot easier too. 

[cort16]

I think I'm about to commit the purchase price of the car on repairs.  I've convinced myself as you still couldn't buy a sorted one for the combined money of the car and the repair costs.

[SiC]

I think I'm about to commit the purchase price of the car on repairs.  I've convinced myself as you still couldn't buy a sorted one for the combined money of the car and the repair costs.

I think I'm nearly at that myself but not including labour!

Spent nearly as much as one with half miles and much better body condition...
However I know that it's fully sorted mechanically now (for now). Last owner bought two genuine front shocks, 4x Toyos, battery and new pads+discs all round. That wouldn't be a cheap lot of parts either.

So I'm ok with what I've spent as even if I did pay double, chances are it still won't have been as sorted as this now. Especially as I know the timing is bang on and the major reason I wanted to DIY the belt change.

I've seen a 40k Clio 172 project up for £1.5k. Barn find that's not been on the road for 8 years, but it does start and drive. No service history though. Awfully tempting but after belts, pump, fluids+filters, plugs+leads, 4x tyres, delivery, etc I'd be £1.5k into it quite easily. £3k would be not bad for something with such low miles but then you just know it'll cost far more, especially from where it's been sat and low miles (e.g. brakes, potential electrical issues from moisture/rodents, etc).

Probably worth £4k-5k tops as the low miles but hurt by lack of history. I just can't make the economics work on it. Especially as I have one that is fully* sorted.

[mercedade]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

While I think about it, if/when I'm selling this car in the future and you're reading this thread looking to buy, I've got all the old cambelt parts in boxes. Kinda mostly for proof that I haven't just bought parts and not fitted them. Even if this thread has been long enough so far that it should be clear I haven't done that!

Anyway future buyer, I've probably forgotten about them so remind me and I can give them. If I remember where I put them...

Now, I'm not suggesting you're an incurable hoarder or anything, but.....

Seriously. Bin them. You've got a massive thread and a phone full of photos, man! How much more proof could someone want? Hand the new owner a USB drive of photos and save yourself some garage space.

Top thread this, excellent work.

[SiC]

Yes I am a compulsive hoarder !

[dome]

2 hours ago, cort16 said:

I think I'm about to commit the purchase price of the car on repairs.  I've convinced myself as you still couldn't buy a sorted one for the combined money of the car and the repair costs.

Welcome to the world of every one of my project cars. You getting the clutch done too?

[cort16]

1 minute ago, dome said:

Welcome to the world of every one of my project cars. You getting the clutch done too?

That's the plan. It's quite a lot of money but I know it takes quite a few hours to do.. I'm going to get them to do all the other stuff it needs too (gear linkage, ball joint etc).

I'm just trying to figure out how to get it to them just now.

[SiC]

That's the plan. It's quite a lot of money but I know it takes quite a few hours to do.. I'm going to get them to do all the other stuff it needs too (gear linkage, ball joint etc).
I'm just trying to figure out how to get it to them just now.

Might be cheaper/easier for them to pull the whole engine? Should be massively quicker and easier to do the belts+pump+clutch once it's out. Cost of removing the engine is negated by the time improvement on the other jobs.

[cort16]

23 minutes ago, SiC said:

Might be cheaper/easier for them to pull the whole engine? Should be massively quicker and easier to do the belts+pump+clutch once it's out. Cost of removing the engine is negated by the time improvement on the other jobs.

That's maybe what they'll do. I know on a lot of front wheel drive stuff you're as well just dropping the whole thing out on the subframe.

[KitKat]

As someone still with a 172/182 itch to scratch, but who's a bit scared of the cambelt/dephaser woes I've been warned soo much about, this thread is deeply enlightening. Glad to see its within the realms of the DIY'er though (provided you exercise the patience of a monk) Good job @SiC 

14 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Good save on the jacking point, mine were this bad, which is why I sold it.

Its being welded up though by the current owner.

 

@Split_Pin I noticed back along you mentioned scrapping your old 172. Great to see this is being repaired rather than scrapped. 🙂

4 hours ago, cort16 said:

I've just been quoted £400 by a Renault specialist to do the belt and water pump on my Megane after reading through this that seems like quite good value.

Good job though you persevered were others would have fire bombed it.

 

At that price, and after seeing this thread, I'd bite their hand off!!!

[SiC]

2 minutes ago, sickboy said:

As someone still with a 172/182 itch to scratch, but who's a bit scared of the cambelt/dephaser woes I've been warned soo much about, this thread is deeply enlightening. Glad to see its within the realms of the DIY'er though (provided you exercise the patience of a monk) Good job @SiC 

Genuinely not a bad job. Remember I tend to go into the gory detail and try to offer as much explanation on how I did it. Not just to help others who may do it but also if I ever do it again!

Totally doable as a DIY'er. I'm no expert and I managed it just fine. Tools wise there isn't anything too special either if you have a decent set. 99% of the work was done with:

 - Halfords Professional socket set. Can't remember which one but the one with the most bits in. This was 90% of my go to tools. 

 - 15 to 60Nm torque wrench. Actually used this the most apart from the socket set. Especially important for stuff like the water pump bolts and if you ever want to get them off again without rounding them off. Access is tight so you want to make sure everything is done up correctly as you may need to get it off again. 

 - 40 to 200Nm torque wrench. There was a few fasteners at 62Nm so ended up using this for them.

 - Another set of 8mm to 23mm sockets + ratchet. Mostly used 13mm/16mm/18mm and sometimes needed extra set of 3/8 inch. Mine were just a decent but cheap set. I think some own brand Screwfix set!

 - Impact wrench to get that crank bolt out

 - Breaker bar for some of the tighter stuff. Is recommend a lower profile one as some of the alloy cover bolts are super tight but the Aircon pipes are in the way. 

 - 14mm hex key for the dephaser pulley bolt cover. I used the one in a cheap blue box drain plug set I got off eBay a while back.

 - 80-100mm jubilee clip for the tensioner. Get genuine Jubilee or Noma here. I think a low profile detensioning tool would be handy too. I ended up using another drain key tool on a ratchet (as I have no 3/4 inch breaker) and the jack handle to give extra leverage when the knock off jubilee clip failed to tighten any further. 

 - Decent jack with long reach. Needed to often jack the engine as high as I could for best access. I have a SGS 3 tonne job one that I know a few on here like too. Think it has a 50cm reach on it. 

 - Genuine Renault locking tools. I was sceptical at first but these are a must if you want the best outcome. I'm now a believer of not using the cheap Laser tools for this job. You can get most of your money back on the Renault tools if you come to sell on anyway. 

 - Patience! Especially if this is your first belt job. Helps I have spare(s) daily drivers so I can work on this in my own time. 

I mean all this stuff is something that most will have if they've done even only a few jobs on a car before. No skill is really needed and it's just about following instructions. Not like something like welding where it's an art to get right and a proper skill to learn. 

All the stuff you hear about needing to remove the engine or drop the subframe, etc isn't true. Access is tight but you can get in easily enough to be honest. Sometimes you need to jack up to get to some bits at the middle then drop back down to get to the other bits in the middle. Especially on stuff like the water pump and the cambelt pulleys. 

I'd totally do another one of these myself. In fact I'd do it over taking it into any garage or specialist as to do it properly takes time. Especially when checking tension by spinning the belts over. Probably get away with doing it the Renault specified amounts but it won't be as close as if you do it more. 

Also interesting to note how far mine was out yet still ran ok. Might have been at risk further as the belt stretched over longer term (it only had done 8k miles on it) and then risk stuff clashing. But the state it was in the car still start and ran without breaking itself up. 

I'm just looking forward to the first drive and seeing how different it feels now! Also keeping fingers crossed everything is still set correctly and won't slip back out 😬

[SiC]

28 minutes ago, sickboy said:

who's a bit scared of the cambelt/dephaser woes

Also don't forget that when the dephaser fails, there has never been a reported case of any damage to the engine. Just sounds bloody awful and gets progressively worse - like a buggered XUD. 

[Kiltox]

+1 on “cheap locking tools are SHIT for these” - I had real trouble with them on a 1.6 Megane II. 

[SiC]

1 minute ago, Kiltox said:

+1 on “cheap locking tools are SHIT for these” - I had real trouble with them on a 1.6 Megane II. 

You don't realise the quality difference of the Cheap tools versus the Renault tools until you have them in front of you. The Renault ones are way heavier and made from a much harder material than the cheaper ones. 

Not cheap and they are overpriced for what they are really. But then if you're doing this professionally it's probably not so bad. 

I believe the set I've got is also good for other floating cam Renault petrols like the K4M. Unfortunately the 2010-2018 period of cars tends to be Diesels. Also the K4M/F4R engines were pretty much non existent after 2010 apart from a few low budget stuff and the remaining N/A performance stuff. 

Almost tempted to never sell them so they are worth £LOL more than gold in 15 years time.

 

[dome]

I can recommend the pulley locking toolok I have, it's top quality. The cam locking tool I'd probably not use again but that was my fault for overtightening the pulleys when turning them over...

[SiC]

Had a look today at the wet footwell on the driver side.

First off was to plug the most likely root cause of this happening. There are some access holes under the car for allowing removing the seats. Unfortunately the bungs are now NLA from Renault. However they appear to be 38mm which is a standard size for rubber grommets. Thanks Renault for doing something sensible for once!

Ordered a mix box from Amazon.


38mm was a perfect fit.


The rear hole is either been made larger or a post factory mod someone has done.


Before I plugged that up, I drained the water out the back. This underlay was so sodden I cut it out completely.




The front carpet and foam is of a different type. I was trying to avoid removing the seats as I don't have enough room on this side of the car to get it out in the garage. So I pulled the carpet up and gave a good squidge.


Irritatingly I managed to rip the carpet a bit here. Thankfully so many people are stripping these cars still, replacement carpets are ten-a-penny.


As the car was at an angle still on the jacks, handily it drained out the rear hole.


I then found a near enough bung (25mm) that roughly fit and sealed up with some left over Tigerseal I had. I'll spray this under chassis black once it's dry.

[SiC]

One of a major common issues on Renaults of this era is the TDC sensor. This is used to inform the ECU of the engine position and thus critical for running.

After going through numerous revisions of sensors, Renault at some point realised it's actually the connector that's at fault. To make it easy to distinguish between the original and new, they made the new version blue.

Bloody expensive nowadays at £85 for a genuine sensor and loom. However it's completely worth going genuine as these tend to fail when the engine is warm and you don't want the car to fail you by the side of the road when your missus is in her best clothes and it's pissing it down!


It lives on the gearbox end under all the coolant pipes. Not easy to get to on any F4R car (Clio, Mégane, Laguna, etc) in my experience.



You need to make sure you get the polarity right. Even though it's just a coil of wire, it really needs to be the right direction around like an ignition coil needs to be. Terminals on the plug and sensor are marked with A and B, so you just need to match them. Colours are different on the new loom.

The supplied joining pieces are heatshrink with low temperature solder in. Simply need to stick the wire in and run over with a heat gun.

Case then of plugging in and refitting.


Filled up the gearbox with some more oil. I intend to have a full dump and refill with genuine stuff. I've got the stuff to do it but the CV boot needs replacing on the drivers side and I CBA to do that. So will get my friendly garage to finish these bits.

Oil is 75w-80 but critically GL4 grade. Must not use GL5 as it has aggressive additive packs that can destroy the brass bits in the box. Not as well known on moderns but very well known in the classic car sphere.


Filler is down under the clutch cable area. I also sprayed some more chassis protector wax on that PAS pipe. Should give it some more life - especially as it looks a bugger to replace if it snaps.


Jacked the car up. This time I used the middle of the front subframe. It's a beefy bit of metal and no damage appeared to be done to it. Admittedly I've not seen anyone do this before so it was bit of an experiment.


I much prefer doing it on here than either the OEM points or chassis rails. When jacking a car it has a tendency to take paint off. Both of which areas are hard to repair with welding. Especially when the subframe is a bolt off and on job if it does rust.


While on the floor I took the fill plug out of the gearbox again to let it level itself off. About 50ml or so came out of it. All in it had about 400ml go in. Box holds 3100ml, so not too much to top it off. Was a bit worried it would have been a bit dry as I don't see any record for it being topped off in quite a few years and these boxes do like to leak out of their seals. Nor any record of it being changed. Hence the intention of having it dumped and refilled soon. Also didn't want to go for any drives until I knew the box had a happy amount of oil in it - had visions of it sloshing around with only a tiny amount in. Thankfully all ok really.