project 2002 Renault Clio II 172

[SiC]

10 hours ago, purplebargeken said:

Si, when do you want to Dolomite/1100/Toledo fettle?

FTFY. 

Let me know what sort of days you are free and I can get a day booked off at work. Next week I'm pretty busy and my manager is away anyway so can't get holiday approved. Should be able to do a day the week after though. 

[Jenson Velcro]

40 minutes ago, SiC said:

UCH is French for body control module. So does the remote central locking, lights (including auto functionality), flashes indicators, wipers (including auto functionality), etc. There isn't much in the way of electronics in a Clio. Engine ECU, uch, airbag, both electric windows, abs and radio. Then climate control if specced, headlight ECU if xenons. About it really. 

A humdrum Vectra C in comparison has the same as the above but also a fuse box ECU under the bonnet, a rear electrical centre in the boot, steering column ECU, ECU in each door for windows and mirrors, etc.  So vastly more complex network. 

Thanks for the explanation Si. Most of my car fettling has been on older vehicles with clockwork control systems so I’m just interested to see what is behind more modern cars, even if I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. I’ve used code readers and replaced odd sensors and components etc. as identified but the rest is a big black hole. Plenty of mechanical and bodywork though.  I’ve recently acquired a r50 Bini, cheap because of issues*. It won’t be a daily driver,  so if any of them are control system related I will be learning as I go along. From reading other threads, I guess I would need something more sophisticated like a Delphi 150 knock off.

[dome]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:43 PM, SiC said:

Ideally! I'm thinking it might be more economical to just break a Clio though...

Possibly an ECU set and a complete engine + passenger compartment loom would be enough. Most of the other modules are pretty cheap to get on eBay. Stuff like ABS pumps, airbag modules, clocks, etc all can be had for around a tenner delivered. Just a bit more convenient to have it all in a box and not have to try selling other remaining bits.

Drop me a PM with your number and I'll put you in touch with my mate, he should be able to get you what you need. 

I'd be interested to find out how to get the SERV light to go out on mine, other than waiting for the bulb to fail?

[SiC]

I'd be interested to find out how to get the SERV light to go out on mine, other than waiting for the bulb to fail

Any error codes stored in the UCH?

I wonder if it's the dashboard configuration is wrong after having various bits transported across to the Kangoo.

[SiC]

Got a new UCH today. Paid £30 (rather than £40) on the basis that the seller didn't need to code it in for me.


Plugged it in and used Renolink to read the EEPROM out of the old again for a fresh copy. Then dumped it into the new one with the same tool. A lot less faff than reading the EEPROM with a programmer on the board.


This worked and the car started. Only problem was that the remote central locking now worked but just locked the car and never unlocked...

An improvement but still not perfect.

Renolink essentially is a third party program that reads the DDT database. As far as I can tell, it's essentially the database for Renaults engineering tool. However it's all in French. So I made the guess that the configuration option "Clé 1 bouton" was "1 button keyfob".


Thankfully this worked!

I imagine that the older UCH configuration is a bit different than the new one the data got dumped into. So this option didn't get set and was redundant on the old.

Really tempted to make a freeware standalone application to do this. Could save many a Clio that is playing up electrically.

[BlankFrank]

Reverse engineering and chod? ...I think i'm in heaven.

[Jenson Velcro]

I remember when carbs and distributors started being replaced by fuel injection and basic ecus. Lots of people were saying that it would be the end of diy car repairs and only main dealers would be able to tend the cars. I believe you work in IT, but even so nowadays here you are plugging a laptop into your car and carrying out what appears to be some pretty high level repairs/adjustments. Very impressive stuff.

[dome]

7 hours ago, SiC said:

 

 

Any error codes stored in the UCH?

I wonder if it's the dashboard configuration is wrong after having various bits transported across to the Kangoo.

 

I've no idea, how do I read them? I've only got torque lite or carista and neither of those read more than the engine ECU

[SiC]

22 minutes ago, dome said:

I've no idea, how do I read them? I've only got torque lite or carista and neither big those read more than the engine ECU

Got a DS150e or similar? 

This is why I need to get my app back up and running again!

[dome]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Got a DS150e or similar? 

This is why I need to get my app back up and running again!

Nope, I'll just wait til you get your app going. In the meantime I'll just wait for the bulb to fail ?

PM me if you want to get in touch with my tame Clio licker

[Split_Pin]

Grand work indeed here. Manys a time I read threads on the 172 pages where the owner was having a right old war with the cars body electrical systems!

[SiC]

Went for a good old blast in this tonight. Drove alright and was reasonably good fun.

However...

Doesn't feel as pokey as I think it should be nor as planted on the road. Nowhere near as confident in driving this hard as say I am with my Boxster. But then I'm still familiarising myself on the Clio and the high seating position in them probably doesn't help this feel instantly planted. I'm wondering if on a previous cambelt job, the cams aren't perfectly in line. Could also explain the rough running it has at idle.

When I get it jacked up for its service, I'm going to have a good look through the suspension and drivetrain parts. My suspicion is something has gone a bit loose or worn somewhere on it. I could feel a slight clunk when wiggling the wheel with the engine off. So perhaps a inner track rod or ball joint is going bad.

Also got noticable squealing but that didn't seem rev dependent. Plus it was pretty noticable at times but went away completely with others. This made it hard to test exactly where it is coming from. Something I'm just going to monitor. Hopefully a stone rattling in and out of the heatshield or something.

Finally when rushing into third from fourth I did notice a couple of times it crunched early on in the drive. However that could also have been the gearbox not quite up to temperature at that point. Trying shifting into third quickly later didn't give a crunch, but then it didn't slide seamlessly in.

I know these boxes suffer from third gear going bad. My original intention on the upcoming fettling work was to top up the fluid. However given this box has never been out in almost 150k and I can't see any record of fluid changes, as a precaution I think I will change the fluid. Any recommendations?

I'll just go easier on the box and especially into third. I have no real need to rush them into place. I'm not so worried either as I couldn't cause it to happen when warm. I am just going to put it down to the box giving me a prod by saying "Oi you! I've done 150k, go easy on me through the ratios a little bit will ya".

So my RenaultSport experience is going pretty much how I should expect it! At least the Remote Central Locking now works. ?

Oh and the exhaust is pretty droney when revving the engine. The 4pot noise gets old pretty quick. Maybe I'm just getting old ?

[Split_Pin]

They are quick but alot of other cars are quicker. They are fun though. Your Boxter will possibly be the reason the Clio feels slower.

My gearbox would give a slight crunch from 3rd to 4th if I really hurried it but 2nd to 3rd is where it's at for bombing it whilst still being legal. Never got any worse in my ownership of nearly 2 years.

[bigfella2]

For gearbox oil, just go for the genuine elf stuff, available off autodoc for not much coin. But if you look underneath you will probably see the box weeping from the selector shaft, but tadts. Maybe it's on the low side but easy to check and change.

These suffer from the gearbox linkages not been adjusted properly, especially if the gearbox is removed and the linkage is separated in the wrong place.  But as you have read the gearboxed are a weak link and it's probably a bit tired after 150k

Regarding the speed and handling I couldn't agree more, I don't think they are that quick but when the dephaser does it's job it's quite addictive but it an all or nothing thing. A pokey turbo diesel will give you a run for your money.

Handling wise I was/am slightly disappointed, mine is in fine fettle suspension with but it doesn't have as much mechanical grip as a thought it would, but it's easy enough to drive quick and doesn't bite you in the arse. 

[cort16]

The turbo in the Megane definitely gives it a bit of extra shove.  Once it's going it's not far off one of the quickest cars I've owned even with the clutch slipping.

I had an XJR wit 360 hrspr and while I'm sure the XJR would win in a drag race as the Megane is a manual it gives the perception of being quicker as you're not waiting for the autobox to do it's thing.

 

[SiC]

This happened the other day. 

 

This happened today. 

What do we reckon? PAS pump packing up? Or buggered belt squealing?

[blackboilersuit]

Given that this engine has a bad reputation for shredding the aux belt and that taking out the timing belt I'd not be running it again until you've had it in bits to investigate. Don't want to be a harbinger of doom but wouldn't want to see something bad happen if you weren't aware of the belt issues that these motors can have. Best of luck.

[bigfella2]

My pump always got a bit louder at at the extremes of left or right hand lock, so at that point I imagine the pump is working quite hard.

So as these are prone to the tensioner seizing I should imagine the belt is slipping on the pas pump cos the tensioner is seized and not pulling the belt tight enough and possibly the belt is a bit tired/damaged cos of that.

Good advice from bbs above.

 

[Split_Pin]

+1 for all of the above, there is a pulley down there that seizes but I can't remember which one. Bits aren't expensive at all and even an aux belt change should be about £160 from a specialist.

[SiC]

I was just thinking instead of the solution being of just not using full lock from now on

Tensioner and belt replacement is mentioned to be as much a ball-ache as cambelt...

[bigfella2]

I think there is a special tool to take the tension off the tensioner, but you can use a jubilee clip around it to compress it while you change the belt.

Just be careful though, I've done it and still have all my fingers intact!!

A man of your talent should have it done in half an hour, no sweat.

[Tickman]

Aux belt and tensioner isn't that bad a job at all.

Easily something that you can manage.

[SiC]

This is presumably the belt then not the pump. 

I guess remove front bumper, jack engine and remove engine mount, drop engine slightly (is this needed?), loosen alternator, cut belt, replace tensioner, new belt and then replace mount. Finally sticky plasters on hands to stem the blood flow. 

[Tickman]

I don't remember having to do anything with the engine mount when I did mine.

I think I adapted a 3/8 drive into the official* tensioner tool.

[320touring]

This escalated quickly?

 

Handily, you are a competent chap, so the aux belt shouldn't pose any issues

[SiC]

I know! I've already bought filter, gearbox oil, headlight washers and other bits. Probably spent a good £200, so not overly keen on spending another 100 quid on an aux kit. If I'm doing that, should I get a cambelt kit to do that too. Might as well pull the engine to refresh the ARB bushes and other bits....

Where do you stop!?

Hence sorta 85% thinking of just not using full lock for now. Once it's proven itself, then spend money on it.

Also the Dolomite is desperately needing attention and rotting outside getting worse the longer it stays out. Especially with winter coming. Kinda wish I didn't have that back already...

[SiC]

Have also read that the damped pulleys can fail and cause similar problems. They ain't cheap those pulleys!

[bigfella2]

The power steering on these is terrible, just do what I did and fuck it off and go epas, also if the Aircon doesn't work, sling that in the bin at the same time.

Looking at the £75 Volvo 440 that just sold, the alternator and brackets possibly could have been used to convert to epas and bin the a/c.

Another job to add to list.

[SiC]

Aircon works great on this. Certainly was very happy with it the last few months.

Really don't want EPAS. If I'm wanting to loose the steering feel, I'd go for a modern car. Hydraulic PAS certainly packed into these mind.

Need to krust and paint those hydraulic lines though to prolong their life.

[320touring]

45 minutes ago, SiC said:

Aircon works great on this. Certainly was very happy with it the last few months.

Really don't want EPAS. If I'm wanting to loose the steering feel, I'd go for a modern car. Hydraulic PAS certainly packed into these mind.

Need to krust and paint those hydraulic lines though to prolong their life.

6 hrs for 6 bolts. Needed crows foot spanners, Gearbox mount off too. All to change 1 power steering pipe.

 

It went from the rack right rear of engine - along the back, over the gearbox and round the front to under the alternator.

@dome was not pleased he offered to assist