No NI MOTs.... for a bit.

[scdan4]

I’m told, and googling seems to confirm that you currently cannot mot a private car in NI as.....

 

.....all the ramps in the country are broken.

(and they are. but it didn’t happen overnight did it?)

Predictions seem to be no replacements for 3 or 4 months. An organisational tour de force I’m sure you will all agree.

Cant say much else, might get banned!

[gtd2000]

Be fantastic if that caught on over on this side of the water too ?

[junkyarddog]

It's the same down south.

The NCT are unable to do a complete test,but still want you to come in and pay them to drive away with a fail sheet.

I shit you not.

You couldn't make it up!!

[HillmanImp]

What I couldn't understand is how the MOTs work over there. Are there specific Govt. MOT stations all with the same ramps. Can't you just take your car to the local tester approved by VOSA or whatever?

[artdjones]

In the North, all the stations are government owned.In the Republic,all cars have to be tested at government owned NCT centres,which are run under a contract by Applus. Commercial vehicle test centres are privately owned,but very carefully overseen.For example they all have CCTV.

[Datsuncog]

1 hour ago, scdan4 said:

I’m told, and googling seems to confirm that you currently cannot mot a private car in NI as.....

 

.....all the ramps in the country are broken.

(and they are. but it didn’t happen overnight did it?)

Predictions seem to be no replacements for 3 or 4 months. An organisational tour de force I’m sure you will all agree.

Cant say much else, might get banned!

Yup, there's a big problem with the scissor ramps - cracking was noticed on the two in my local test centre during routine inspections back in November. Probably caused by the 'shake test', which always looks pretty violent, and I don't think is part of GB MOTs.

Then an urgent inspection showed that 48 out of the 55 ramps installed across all 15 test centres had horizontal cracks in the uprights, to a greater or lesser extent.
 

It didn't happen overnight, no, but all the ramps were supplied and fitted over the space of a few months in 2005, so it's not surprising that they've nearly all failed after roughly the same number of service hours.

They were also falling due for replacement, with two new ramps already on their way over and more on order.

Initially, the manufacturer said they could be welded up, no bother... but an insurance inspection on the repaired ramps last week revealed that the welding isn't gonna hold, so insurance cover was withdrawn.

At that point, with no cover if the damn things collapse mid-test and squash people, DVA had no choice but to pull all tests using the ramps - which is most of them.

 

So, at the minute, the only MOT tests being carried out in NI are 'priority' tests on four year old cars (being tested for the first time), and PSVs including taxis.

Both of these categories are being tested in the HGV lane - which has an inspection pit rather than a ramp arrangement for the underside checks.

 

Everyone else is being issued with a four-month exemption certificate when their pre-booked MOT date is cancelled - meaning people are still having to book and pay for their MOT appointments, which will then be cancelled and refunded along with the issue of the exemption cert - with details being passed over to DVLA to ensure that cars can still be taxed without having a valid MOT.

A number of insurers have already confirmed that a lack of valid MOT will not affect cover, provided the vehicle is maintained in a roadworthy manner.

 

The backlog this will cause will be godawful come April... last year a lack of test centre staff, and a bigger than expected number of cars coming for test, caused an eight-week delay in booking an MOT (your MOT's due at the end of September, you get a reminder at the end of August, and then find the next available date at any centre isn't until the end of October...).

So - not ideal.

My two aren't due an MOT until September and November, so hopefully they'll have it sorted by then...

 

47 minutes ago, HillmanImp said:

What I couldn't understand is how the MOTs work over there. Are there specific Govt. MOT stations all with the same ramps. Can't you just take your car to the local tester approved by VOSA or whatever?

Yes, there are 15 test centres operated by the Driver Vehicle Agency, part of the Department for Infrastructure. They're all kitted out with the same gear - scissor ramps, rather than the more common post ramps used in garages.

VOSA doesn't have any jurisdiction in NI - and the whole arrangement is a hangover from the days when NI had greater independence.

GB introduced the 'Ministry of Transport Ten Year Test' back in 1960; but Northern Ireland (which at that time had its own Parliament and Prime Minister) decided not to do so - partly because the MOT was introduced in GB in response to the number of avoidable accidents and breakdowns on the new motorway network, and NI didn't have any of that.

When vehicle testing was finally brought in sometime in the 1970s, after the collapse of the Northern Ireland Parliament and introduction of Direct Rule from Westminster, it was administered through government-run centres rather than through accredited local garages.

Supposedly the use of government centres avoids garages ripping off customers by billing them for unnecessary repairs - it should be a neutral assessment of roadworthiness.

However, the use of retest targets (aka fail targets) rather undermines that - as I've had cars failed on totally false 'issues', with the car then passing its retest no problem, with no remedial work done (because how can you remove rust that doesn't exist??) 

There is talk of doing away with the DVA centres in favour of approved garages conducting tests; this disaster could well push things more in that direction...

Incidentally, the Irish Republic didn't bring in vehicle testing until 2000. Prior to that, there used to be some amazing wrecks seen on rural roads in Donegal...

[scdan4]

20 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Then an urgent inspection showed that 48 out of the 55 ramps installed across all 15 test centres had horizontal cracks in the uprights, to a greater or lesser extent.
 

 

 

Supposedly the use of government centres avoids garages ripping off customers by billing them for unnecessary repairs - it should be a neutral assessment of roadworthiness.

However, the use of failure targets rather undermines that - and I've had cars failed on totally false 'issues', with the car then passing its retest no problem, with no remedial work done (because how can you remove rust that doesn't exist??)

There is talk of doing away with the DVA centres in favour of approved garages conducting tests; this disaster could well push things more in that direction...

I’d not stand under that.

cant decide if there’s a fatigue analysis bod somewhere saying either a) ooops shit or more likely b) told you so Or if it was a “it’ll be fine “ with finger in air fatigue projections. If they are starting to roll out replacements then it nearly was fine. Same problem in another 15 years?

 

I remember your brake line schnanigans. I’m not sure that the system is working to the benefit of the client. Bring on the free market, there have never been any problems with that. * 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

2 hours ago, scdan4 said:

I’m told, and googling seems to confirm that you currently cannot mot a private car in NI as.....

 

.....all the ramps in the country are broken.

(and they are. but it didn’t happen overnight did it?)

Predictions seem to be no replacements for 3 or 4 months. An organisational tour de force I’m sure you will all agree.

Cant say much else, might get banned!

 

2 hours ago, gtd2000 said:

Be fantastic if that caught on over on this side of the water too ?

I think they are going to issue temporary MoT exemptions for however long it takes to install brand new ramps/lifts in all of the NI test centres. Irish solution to a (so far) Irish problem.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

They haven't clarified if "light vehicles" includes motorcycles, and my VTR MOT needs renewed.

guess I'll just try and book it and see what happens

Sent from my TA-1012 using Tapatalk

[Datsuncog]

Just now, They_all_do_that_sir said:

They haven't clarified if "light vehicles" includes motorcycles, and my VTR MOT needs renewed.

guess I'll just try and book it and see what happens

Motorbike tests are still going ahead as normal, apparently - Q&A here:

Quote

Have all MoT tests been cancelled?

No - the suspension only applies to cars and light vehicles such as vans.

MoT tests for heavy goods vehicles, motorcycles and buses are continuing as normal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51279166

[LightBulbFun]

have to ask where do class 3 MOTs fall in that, Ie 3 wheelers?  

(assuming the MOT class system is the same in NI as it is here!)

[Tadhg Tiogar]

2 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

......the Irish Republic didn't bring in vehicle testing until 2000. Prior to that, there used to be some amazing wrecks seen on rural roads in Donegal...

Not just Donegal. Mayo had some cars that, when I saw them in 1998 / 99, were clearly grimly hanging on. The introduction of the NCT was greeted with the usual degree of grumbling but it is mostly accepted as a fact of life now, a bit like unaccompanied L-plate drivers.

Then there are the cars brought in from Britain - those which still run around on British plates probably never see the NCT, whilst the MoT (if there was any left) is left to lapse.....

[Datsuncog]

Oh aye, plenty everywhere - I just remember Donegal in particular because I was there quite a lot in the 80s/90s.

I get quite misty-eyed reminiscing about scabby Datsun Laurels with holes in the wings you could put your fist through, parked outside wee pubs on the Inishowen peninsula...

 

The Scrappage Scheme that accompanied the NCT's introduction seemed to cut a swathe through old car stocks, too.

The guards seem to be variable about how tightly they clamp down on UK-registered cars - I bought my NI-registered XM from a fella in Donegal, who claimed the VRT was too expensive for him to register it legally and he was afraid of getting fined for having it in his yard - apparently there was something of a crackdown at the time (2010).

A friend whose PhD meant he was splitting his time between Belfast and Carlow was pulled over repeatedly in his NI-plated Rover 25.

Eventually, he settled in Galway and stumped up to get the Rover put onto a Galway plate; cost him a fair bit, as I recall.

Not long after, the K-series did its usual party trick...

[Datsuncog]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

have to ask where do class 3 MOTs fall in that, Ie 3 wheelers?  

(assuming the MOT class system is the same in NI as it is here!)

I really don't know; it's perhaps telling that NI never seems to have had any Reliant dealerships - and (other than Model 70s) I never remember seeing any three-wheelers on the road locally. Hence going on holiday to England enabled me to see such amazing exotica as Reliant Robins...

I'd heard a rumour years ago (in my Halfords days) that there was no equipment to carry out MOT tests on three-wheelers here, and that explained a lone Reliant Rialto being eaten by a hedge nearby - someone had bought it, brought it over to NI, then found out the nearest MOT station that could test it was in Scotland...

There are a fair few Reliant three-wheelers to be seen here now, but almost always parked up on private land as advertising vans, painted yellow... you know the rest.

Never seen one actually driving on the road in NI... though I know of a Regal under a tarp, so mebbe I should make enquiries...

[New POD]

A bloke I worked with built (legally) a 4x4 special, Rover V8. Jag rear axle. And lots of round pipe for the chassis. 

It had no front screen, the diffs were locked and the ground clearance was measured in metres. 

He took it for an MOT and they couldn't brake test it, so he was told to drive down the road get up the speed limit and apply the brakes. The tester refused to drive it. It had no doors either.

It was okay on the four poster, but they couldn't get it high enough with all four wheels off the ground to check the bearings. 

If it stopped in a reasonable distance he'd pass it. 

My work mate got it to lock all four wheels. 

He passed. 

 

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, New POD said:

He took it for an MOT and they couldn't brake test it, so he was told to drive down the road get up the speed limit and apply the brakes. The tester refused to drive it. It had no doors either.

 

 

24 minutes ago, New POD said:

If it stopped in a reasonable distance he'd pass it. 

 

on the opposite end of the scale I know of someone who (in england) at the time had an AC Acedes Mk12, Model 57 and had to get it MOTed that way as it was too narrow to fit on the rollers!

IIRC they also used some sort of brake force measurement device like seen here (but mounted to the floor of the vehicle)

(at the 11 min mark if the time stamped link fails, I also recommend watching the video in its entirety )  

edit here we go dug up the post on the RUMCar forums  

Quote

When I had my Acedes I had a Tapley meter on the floor and the examiner following me
up the road in a pick-up.  When he flashed his lights I had to brake sharply and he took the
reading from the decelerometer.  Great fun.  In the end the foreman said "For Christ's sake
give him an MoT and tell him to f**k off!"

 

 

32 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

I really don't know; it's perhaps telling that NI never seems to have had any Reliant dealerships - and (other than Model 70s) I never remember seeing any three-wheelers on the road locally. Hence going on holiday to England enabled me to see such amazing exotica as Reliant Robins...

I'd heard a rumour years ago (in my Halfords days) that there was no equipment to carry out MOT tests on three-wheelers here, and that explained a lone Reliant Rialto being eaten by a hedge nearby - someone had bought it, brought it over to NI, then found out the nearest MOT station that could test it was in Scotland...

There are a fair few Reliant three-wheelers to be seen here now, but almost always parked up on private land as advertising vans, painted yellow... you know the rest.

Never seen one actually driving on the road in NI... though I know of a Regal under a tarp, so mebbe I should make enquiries...

interesting! I sort of just assumed relients would of been sold in NI like they where in england!

interesting to hear they where not a thing over there! (was the whole motorcycle licence thing different in NI?)

[dieselassist]

10 hours ago, junkyarddog said:

It's the same down south.

The NCT are unable to do a complete test,but still want you to come in and pay them to drive away with a fail sheet.

I shit you not.

You couldn't make it up!!

...I pissed myself laughing yesterday when a mate told me he'd been to  our local NCT centre to have a 'visual' minor fault inspected (seat belts 'inoperable'- just slow to release so I wanged some GT/45 or whatever into them) from last week...

.... he reported the place was ramm'jammed with folk n in total chaos; the local place is always staffed by a contingent of knobend testers; they are super reluctant to issue the pass cert first time, n fail on petty shit eg. 'number plate lights not sufficiently bright enough' or whatever - anyways the lifts issue coupled with their propensity to have folk returning for the minor outside in the carpark visual inspection shit led to the total chaos - their continued petty stupidity caught up them... I travel 40 miles away to the limerick test centre when getting my own done; its staffed by reasonable non petty testers

[PiperCub]

Wait - they have "Retest targets"? WTF?

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. 

Assume you have to pay for the re-test so just a blatant con then. 

[Isaac Hunt]

And they’ve just found out ‘no income tax no Vee Ay Tee, no money back no Guarantee....,,

[They_all_do_that_sir]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51279166

Good stuff.

Hardly surprised mind as the motorcycle test over here basically involves you wheeling it through the shutters, they poke at it a bit, check the lights, run it on a brake roller and send you away with your certificate.

They've no way of properly testing things like steering bearings, shock linkages etc.

I think they rely on most bikers in NI being hobbyists who put a bit of effort into keeping their bikes in good order - unless it's obviously fucking fucked m8 you'll get a pass.

Sent from my TA-1012 using Tapatalk

[Datsuncog]

2 minutes ago, They_all_do_that_sir said:

I think they rely on most bikers in NI being hobbyists who put a bit of effort into keeping their bikes in good order - unless it's obviously fucking fucked m8 you'll get a pass.

Excellent news!

? 

 

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Excellent news!

 
 

I've still the paperwork for that under the bed! I'll drop it round. Or forget again.....

Sent from my TA-1012 using Tapatalk

[Datsuncog]

Well, that's one solution...

MoTs: Minister seeks advice on tests once every two years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51387724

Also - apparently this issue with the lifts was just the tip of the iceberg.

I was watching the Infrastructure Committee meeting this morning and this nugget came out...

Quote

Committee chairwoman Michelle McIlveen asked Paul Duffy, the chief executive of the Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA), if the issue with lifts in the Republic of Ireland is the same as in Northern Ireland.

Mr Duffy said when the issue came to light he had a serious discussion with the National Car Testing Service in the Republic.

"The following Monday they said they had noticed cracks on a number of the lifts and that led to the suspension of their lifts.

"I am also aware now potentially cracks in lifts in other European countries and I understand the supplier is about to make a statement to each of its customers on this particular lift."

So maybe it's not so much "ha ha stupid paddies can't do anything right", so much as 'first to notice major issues with internationally sold products'.

[Datsuncog]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 5:12 PM, LightBulbFun said:

IIRC they also used some sort of brake force measurement device like seen here (but mounted to the floor of the vehicle)

 

Another interesting* fact here - Vehicle Test Centres in NI also all have a separate Brake Test Lane on the premises, to test non-standard vehicles using a Tapley meter - as shown in the video. 

Never seen one being used - but that strip of tarmac above the articulated truck has signs stating no entry unless directed for brake testing.

Quote

interesting! I sort of just assumed relients would of been sold in NI like they where in england!

interesting to hear they where not a thing over there! (was the whole motorcycle licence thing different in NI?)

Now here's where things get even more murky - last night this happened to crop up in conversation with MrsDC, and she is adamant that there were at least two Reliant three-wheelers local to her while she was a kid.

Going through online images of Reliants confirmed that the one parked up nearest to her - a ratty blue three-wheeler - was definitely a '70s Robin, and not a Rialto or '80s Robin, because she recalled the unusual badging script on the back. The other was a boxy red three-wheeler, likely an 80s Rialto/Robin estate.

They were around Carrickfergus for years, the blue one being just around the corner from her childminder, so she passed it regularly.

As she was always interested in mechanical things, three-wheeled cars were a special source of fascination. And nope, neither was a Model 70 - she was also aware of those, but only saw them up in Belfast - and none past around 2000.

So were there Reliants registered locally?

Maybe... I asked if she could remember whether the blue Robin was wearing an NI plate or a GB plate, but in response got a withering look and the reply, "Yeah, I was seven..."

Fair enough.

[LightBulbFun]

interesting stuff!, doing a bit of googling pulls up this, a Reliant Robin that looks to have been Belfast registried from new (at least my tool does not report any previous registration plates and SOIxxxx fits, when it was first registered)

it shows up on the DVLA main info, checker, thing,

but the very interesting thing is, it wont show up on the MOT checker, this is very interesting because I know of this Stanley Argson Runnymede, registried in NI from the get go, that also wont show up on the MOT checker but shows up fine on the DVLA checker

On 12/17/2019 at 12:27 AM, LightBulbFun said:

continuing the whole Northern ireland vs the DVLA thing, while going through some early invalid carriage material I was reminded of 

JZ2394, an Argson Runnymede, that reportedly lives in County antrim, and if im reading things correctly that is a period NI registration for a 1949 vehicle, so it seems like the vehicle has been a NI vehicle since new

but interestingly it does show up on the DVLA happily, I wonder if it was specifically migrated to the DVLA database, like @Six-cylinder did with his E type, or if it just got migrated in 2014? with all other active NI cars at the time when they smooshed the 2 databases together

I guess the question is was it active at the time? im curious what constituted a NI vehicle showing up on the DVLA database/checker when merger happened and what would cause a vehicle not to show up,

as for example apart from 1, none of the NI Model 70's show up on the DVLA database, not even GIG shows up which was last "Active" in 2008 or so

 

tis worth noting that it should be registered as Stanley not as an Argson Runnymede (as thats its Model not make), so it has been "fiddled" with at some point in time, and the MOT checker is having none of it for some reason

(and most curiously it has no recorded keeper changes)

and it also a 3 wheeler (albeit a very different type of 3 wheeler!)

(if above relient registration looks familiar thats probably because of SOI7570  reminds me I need to get in contact with the place I found this picture, McElmeel Mobility Services Limited, as im pretty sure the picture is newer than 2003, but worryingly SOI7570 has a scrapped marker from 2003 so I want to be safe and check in on it!)

11 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

but in response got a withering look and the reply, "I was seven..."

this made me chuckle, I have had that exact type of response from people more times then I care to admit, when asking them similar questions  

[LightBulbFun]

and bringing things a bit closer to NI

heres a Nobel 200 (as mentioned by you recently ) a 3 wheeler, that again shows up on the DVLA checker just fine, but once more the MOT checker wont have any of it!

[Frogchod]

No mot's on motorcycles here in France.  As my Rialto is registered as a motorcycle (correctly under French regs) no mot has been needed

There are rumours of mot's for bikes in the future. But as there's no testing stations equiped for bikes I'm not too worried.

Testing stations here are as ROI , independent,  no profit to be made from repairs.

 

[St.Jude]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:33 PM, Datsuncog said:

Yup, there's a big problem with the scissor ramps - cracking was noticed on the two in my local test centre during routine inspections back in November. Probably caused by the 'shake test', which always looks pretty violent, and I don't think is part of GB MOTs.

A few years ago I realised my Peugeot had lapsed on it's MOT, and the wife needed it. So the only place around me that was available at short notice was KwikRip. And I watched him do the MOT test and he did the shake test on the car. That's the only time I've ever seen that done on an MOT test in the UK with that Peugeot. So that's about 7 years now.

I do remember from my aunt in Dublin that a few years ago that you couldn't book an NCT test as there wasn't enough centres to service Dublin. So she was driving around Dublin without an NCT but it booked in for the earliest time available, which I think was about 4 months.

[Spurious]

So the NCT has a couple of oddities

First, about 8 years ago, people who knew dodgy testers were leaving €100 in the glove box and the vehicle was passed.  Prime Time (equiv of panorama on BBC) exposed this.  Bit of a joke at the time but we all knew it could be happening.  (https://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-eight-nct-staff-sacked-since-prime-time-expose-359532-Feb2012/)

Secondly,  they test for shock absorber imbalance using some sort of shaking machine.  However if all the shocks are equally shagged you'll get a pass.  Unlike the UK where unless they're leaking out fluid it's usually a pass but don't test for imbalance. 

Lastly, they're pretty anal sometimes.  Have failed for indicators not being sufficiently orange which is just pathetic.  Not convinced either way on the independent test stations argument, they'll usually get the €28 euro retest fee if it goes on a ramp/equipment so a lot of time I think they fail for the sakes of it.  Still making easy money. 

No NCT on Motorcycles in the republic of Ireland and to be fair, there wasn't an NCT on anything until about 2001 or 2002 I think.  I remember some right rotboxes going around. 

 

 

[Eddie Honda]

No NCTs on anything pre-1980 in the RoI and goes back to rolling (on a 40 year basis) in May.

Reliants are classed as Motorcycles for VRT, Motor tax, (lack of testing) and tolling purposes, which mean freebie on the M50 and East Link tolls.