My 1976 Lada 2101 - Nikita: Keeping Hobbyweld in business.

[St.Jude]

Just realised I haven't mentioned one thing and the one thing is a bit of mistake on my part.

So 6 months before Brexshit kicked in I was in Berlin and picked up a load of bits for this. Some bits I knew I would need, others I bought on the off chance. So far the bits I've needed I've needed, and one of the bits I didn't need I now need. So it's worked out well, especially with Russia and Ukraine and shit.

But...

I bought 4 jacking points for the Lada. And up until Saturday I thought I had one for each other. Turns out I don't - I have two pairs for the front left and right hand sides. I don't have jacking points for the rear. If I had known when I picked them up I could've sorted it out but it's been years, so it's my own fault there.

Judging purely on the state of the front jacking points I am going to need them. But going on Lada Power they're out of stock. I've asked them when they're likely to have new ones in.

[St.Jude]

So my boy has decided to fall asleep in our room, which is above where I do my work. So I can’t use the angle grinder for fear of waking both him and the wife up. She’s been up since 4am with him. He’s not poorly, just sees a slither of light in the room and he’s all “right it’s daylight it’s time to be up”.

As I wait for him to wake up, I’m listening to Celtic v Rangers on the radio and I’m trying to take off the passenger door with a view to sorting out the outer sill (once I’ve sorted the inside sill).

 

Er…

That bit has done the grand total of 5 screws. On the 6th it gave up.

It shows the quality of the item as I’ve gone on to Amazon to go for a replacement, and they’ve just refunded it and not asked for it back. 

On the bright side, in the time it’s taken for me to write all of this Celtic have put 2 past Sevco 😂😂😂

[St.Jude]

The angle grinder finally died. Must be a Rangers fan.

Took it apart and this is the culprit.

The switch was dodgy anyway but it gave up. Have found one on eBay for £2, that’ll make it work again and it’ll keep it going until I can buy a DeWalt cordless job.

But it meant that I couldn’t do any more on it today which is well annoying.

[St.Jude]

Never got the right switch (yet). So I had to make do with the old school grinder I have. Fucking scares shite out of me.

Anyway, I got the inner sill done and welded in. I didn't (like an idiot) paint the inside of it with etchweld like I have been. I was half way through welding it when I realised it. But the sills will be soaked in wax when it's done so I'm not too worried.

I painted the inside of the floor with the zinc primer. I am coming back to it to knock the welds back, but not for a while. So I thought it best to protect what I've done.

I am now going to do the outer sill.

Had to ask the Lada folk about the best way to do it, as the B pillar goes over the sill, and I've a full length piece to go in to it. The answer came back that I will need to brace the doors, cut the old sill out and unstitch it where I can. The B pillar I need to grind from under neath apparently. Not quite sure but I don't have any material to brace the car so I can't continue with it today. Pay day is Friday and so I'll be going to visit my steel stockist to get some and crack at it over the bank holiday.

[St.Jude]

Cracking on with this tomorrow and Tuesday, as I have some angle iron for the doors and a replacement PH4 bit.

What I have is a video of the floor, if someone can’t be arsed reading the last page or two.

 

[St.Jude]

I have not done a fat lot today as, well, a lot of the time was spent thinking.

So I got the rear door off. Which is great. I need to get the others off before I loose the refund window for Amazon when this bit inevitably shits itself.

I braced the doors. Side to side, then B pillar to transmission tunnel.

I have since added another brace to the front a pillar.

Turned my attention to the B pillar and quite frankly this is where a lot of the thinking took place.

As in I haven’t a fucking clue how you’re actually meant to get the sill out of this while keeping the A pillar in place. It’s welded on the inside, this sits atop of the sill. Especially as I know that behind that the sill would be spot welded to the car. So I feel I may have to cut this out and weld it back on.

Anyway, the spot weld drill bits I have are shit so couldn’t progress further with it today. But I did cut all of the outer sill.

Inner sill has rust but isn’t weakened. 

Found a hole at the rear though.

The rear arches are just filler. LadaPower would like £90 to ship me two repair panels (one for each side of the rear). With money like that I’m tempted to make an arch myself. But better this time.

Anyway, on ward. Tomorrow I’m going to get more drill bits and prepare everything, and spend tonight pondering the B pillar.

Doesnt help that when I Google how to do it, all I get are my own fucking videos and this forum post!!!

[Back_For_More]

If the postage cost is because of borders etc.... You can ship them to my place in Belgium and I can throw them in the car next time I'm over - depends on how quickly you want the panels...... I'm an adhoc type of back n forth at the minute. 

I'll be shipping my Lada 2101 1200 over at some point soon too - I'll be re-reading this lot for reference so keep on writing up. Much appreciated 

[Scruffy Bodger]

What spot weld drills are you using? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252414306303 I've found those to be good. If you're careful you can sharpen them with a grinder and 1mm cutting disk.

I managed to remove the complete rear bed of a 504 pickup with a single bit and the entire thing is spot weld constructed.

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, Back_For_More said:

If the postage cost is because of borders etc.... You can ship them to my place in Belgium and I can throw them in the car next time I'm over - depends on how quickly you want the panels...... I'm an adhoc type of back n forth at the minute. 

I'll be shipping my Lada 2101 1200 over at some point soon too - I'll be re-reading this lot for reference so keep on writing up. Much appreciated 

I didn't think, but just checked and the postage to the UK is €5 more than it is to Belgium, so thanks for the offer! I'm not sure when I'll need them to be honest, as now I'm thinking it's an opportunity for wider track on the rear. It's something I've been thinking about but thought I'd have a bit longer to think about it. We'll see.

2 hours ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

What spot weld drills are you using? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252414306303 I've found those to be good. If you're careful you can sharpen them with a grinder and 1mm cutting disk.

I managed to remove the complete rear bed of a 504 pickup with a single bit and the entire thing is spot weld constructed.

I can't remember really. Think they were off of Amazon for £not-a-lot. I'm going to a tool shop tomorrow and see if they have anything and I'll order those ones in the meantime.

The ones I have are just shit really. They did maybe 4/5 spot welds each (can't remember right but not many) and they were distinctly dull since then.

[St.Jude]

Haven’t had the best day with this.

Shop I went to this morning didn’t have anything, sent me to MSC in Wednesbury who only had one (8mm). Fine it’ll do etc.

Except this morning I woke up with a horrible stinking headache. Kind of what I had 2 years ago when I went to A&E. I’ve had pain killers etc and while I rest it’s fine, the moment I went out to do two spot welds on the Lada (which really isn’t the hardest of jobs) the headache returned. So there’ll be fuck all done today on it.

[St.Jude]

Not done near as much as I have wanted recently. If it’s not my head then it’s my shoulder. But we plod on.

Over the last two days I’ve been drilling out the spot welds left behind from me cutting the sill off. All credit to @Scruffy Bodger those bits are great, much better than the one I bought which cost what these two did!

Couldn’t really hold the drill towards the end of yesterday as my shoulder isn’t right. Think it’s a rotator cuff or something, only got pain when pushing the drill in to the sill, all the other times I move it just clicks and clacks. But this is where I got to.

Some welds were left behind. I will sand them off. B Pillar still has me scratching my head as I’m certain the outer sill would’ve been spot welded behind it. But I can only think of cutting the bottom of the B Pillar off to access it, which I don’t think is a great idea. Alternative is to cut what’s left from under it, leaving the old inner sill attached to the inner sill behind it, and then weld the B pillar to the top of the new outer sill.

The inner sill is rusty, but I can’t puncture it with a screwdriver. So I will use rust remover and leave it.

As I found daylight towards the rear arch…

Tried to do the spot weld drilling thing here but it didn’t work, as the rear wing is filler. So I cut instead.

At which point the rot in the rear arch tub is apparent.

I think this goes in to form part of the sill, just at the curve where the door rubber would be seated.

Left it at that until, maybe, tomorrow. Intention next is to clean up the inner sill rust and treat that.

The rear arch might be a problem, or it might not. It’s similar to how it was on the RAV4. I may cut where the three sheets meet, and replace all of it with good steel and weld it back up.

I don’t want to do too much surgery here because I haven’t got a replacement rear arch for either side, and I do need them. What I have is just filler, but it’s the right sort of shape. I don’t want to loose that and not have a replacement for it.

I may have next Saturday on this but then I’m off for 2 weekends. So who knows.

[Scruffy Bodger]

 

Glad they helped  A bit late now but if you need to remove some spot welds and the piece you are removing is complete scrap it can be just as easy to sand to sand the remaining material away and the spot weld with a 40 grit flap disc. That may be easier on your shoulder too?

An air chisel is great for breaking ones free you haven't quite got all out, especially if you extend it by bodging it on to a bit of re-bar. That way you can peel long sections off.

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

 

Glad they helped  A bit late now but if you need to remove some spot welds and the piece you are removing is complete scrap it can be just as easy to sand to sand the remaining material away and the spot weld with a 40 grit flap disc. That may be easier on your shoulder too?

An air chisel is great for breaking ones free you haven't quite got all out, especially if you extend it by bodging it on to a bit of re-bar. That way you can peel long sections off.

Yeah I’ve done that once before when I was taking the wing off. Thought the drilling would be better, some ways it is. 

I’ve not got a compressor (yet) but have been doing a similar thing with cold chisels and a hammer. That doesn’t hurt the shoulder, which is bizarre. Just pushing the drill on to the steel and holding it twinged it.

[Matty]

You're a maniac @St.Jude. Very much in awe of this. Hope your shoulders better soon pal 👍 

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Matty said:

You're a maniac @St.Jude. Very much in awe of this. Hope your shoulders better soon pal 👍 

Probably, but it’s therapy even when it doesn’t go right. I did think that rear part of the car would be crusty in that spot, but I thought the inside and bottom of the arch inside the car would need cutting out. Could well be that they have to come out too.

[Matty]

Some end result when it's done though. Are you still going k series for the engine?

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Matty said:

Some end result when it's done though. Are you still going k series for the engine?

Hopefully yeah. Once I get the bodywork sorted i can look at the engine. Think the MX5 gearbox is longer than the Lada one, but tapers out narrower at the drive. So that will result in a shortened prop shaft. But I will have to think about the adapter plate and extending the input shaft so it fits in to the spigot on the K Series. Or I cut the desired depth from the bell housing and have it welded up, but then I may need a bigger spigot for the engine then.

Gearbox from a FSO Polonez Caro would be ideal, but they’re also made of chocolate. So while it’d fit it doesn’t have longevity. Could look for a Ford Type 9 box but they’re heavy.

Ive never wrote down what I want to do with it. I have now, it’s 3 pages long. Most of it is nailed down and has been for years. Things like bumpers/bumperless aren’t decided, same with the engine. If the K Series won’t work then it’s turbo time for the original 1.2 lump. That would still need a 5 speed box from a Riva though.

[Matty]

4 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

Hopefully yeah. Once I get the bodywork sorted i can look at the engine. Think the MX5 gearbox is longer than the Lada one, but tapers out narrower at the drive. So that will result in a shortened prop shaft. But I will have to think about the adapter plate and extending the input shaft so it fits in to the spigot on the K Series. Or I cut the desired depth from the bell housing and have it welded up, but then I may need a bigger spigot for the engine then.

Gearbox from a FSO Polonez Caro would be ideal, but they’re also made of chocolate. So while it’d fit it doesn’t have longevity. Could look for a Ford Type 9 box but they’re heavy.

Ive never wrote down what I want to do with it. I have now, it’s 3 pages long. Most of it is nailed down and has been for years. Things like bumpers/bumperless aren’t decided, same with the engine. If the K Series won’t work then it’s turbo time for the original 1.2 lump. That would still need a 5 speed box from a Riva though.

Mx5 box is a popular one in old bmc stuff like mine. Needs modding though as like you said it's quite long. Still though, ideal time to be chopping the transmission tunnel around! I'd say go with the k series. There's some lineage there really. Ladas a Fiat. Fiat do twin cams. K series is a twin cam. And they're a brilliant lump. 

[Zelandeth]

5 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

Hopefully yeah. Once I get the bodywork sorted i can look at the engine. Think the MX5 gearbox is longer than the Lada one, but tapers out narrower at the drive. So that will result in a shortened prop shaft. But I will have to think about the adapter plate and extending the input shaft so it fits in to the spigot on the K Series. Or I cut the desired depth from the bell housing and have it welded up, but then I may need a bigger spigot for the engine then.

Gearbox from a FSO Polonez Caro would be ideal, but they’re also made of chocolate. So while it’d fit it doesn’t have longevity. Could look for a Ford Type 9 box but they’re heavy.

Ive never wrote down what I want to do with it. I have now, it’s 3 pages long. Most of it is nailed down and has been for years. Things like bumpers/bumperless aren’t decided, same with the engine. If the K Series won’t work then it’s turbo time for the original 1.2 lump. That would still need a 5 speed box from a Riva though.

Not sure if I'm speaking out my ass here as it was a long time ago, but I seem to vaguely recall that among the heavily off-road modified Niva crowd that they tended to go for the four speed boxes because they're stronger.

There's no difference between the gearboxes in the Riva/Niva - though the boxes in the latter tend to have a harder life because they're tilted backwards slightly because of how they're mounted - so 5th gear tends to get oil starved unless the box is overfilled slightly.  Also why the advice is not to engage 5th until you're doing 50mph or more to ensure there's enough oil flow up to it.

How about something really funky like a rotary from an RX8?  Though admittedly the K Series is a bloody good little engine, I was staggered how well even the 1.1 version in the Rover 100 I briefly had went.  Unfortunately I only had that for about a month as it was a car which needed welding...in so far as you basically needed a whole new car to reattach the previous patches together as they were the only solid things on it.  It was free though!

[St.Jude]

11 hours ago, Matty said:

Mx5 box is a popular one in old bmc stuff like mine. Needs modding though as like you said it's quite long. Still though, ideal time to be chopping the transmission tunnel around! I'd say go with the k series. There's some lineage there really. Ladas a Fiat. Fiat do twin cams. K series is a twin cam. And they're a brilliant lump. 

I've seen one modification where you can move the gearstick forward 6 inches, which will need to happen I think. Issue I have with this all is that transmisison tunnel and the points rules. I can't remember off the top of my head right now, but when I was doing a lot of reading in to it at the beginning I think any modification to the transmission tunnel would result in the car losing classic status, which I want to avoid.

11 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Not sure if I'm speaking out my ass here as it was a long time ago, but I seem to vaguely recall that among the heavily off-road modified Niva crowd that they tended to go for the four speed boxes because they're stronger.

There's no difference between the gearboxes in the Riva/Niva - though the boxes in the latter tend to have a harder life because they're tilted backwards slightly because of how they're mounted - so 5th gear tends to get oil starved unless the box is overfilled slightly.  Also why the advice is not to engage 5th until you're doing 50mph or more to ensure there's enough oil flow up to it.

How about something really funky like a rotary from an RX8?  Though admittedly the K Series is a bloody good little engine, I was staggered how well even the 1.1 version in the Rover 100 I briefly had went.  Unfortunately I only had that for about a month as it was a car which needed welding...in so far as you basically needed a whole new car to reattach the previous patches together as they were the only solid things on it.  It was free though!

I think I've heard that about the Niva. The Niva box needs some modification though due to the drive, I think the Niva box has the transfer box attached to it. I don't know, I am definitely talking out of my hole now, but I think there is some modifications.

I think I considered the RX8 for a day, but it felt very involved in terms of maintenance on the engine. The nice thing about the K Series is that I bought a "MG ZR", which the log book said was a "Rover 25". On reflection I think it was ringed but who cares I had it on the road for 2/3 days to see if I liked it and decided that'd be the parts car. It's given it's engine (which is a 1.6 block with a 1.4 head for some reason), brake servo booster, steering column and a few other bits and pieces as well as it's seats. They're a "half leather" thing from a Rover Streetwise which turned it in to a 2+2. Paid £300/£350 for it, but having sold bits of the car since all in the seats and engine have only cost me about £100. So if it doesn't work I've not lost alot.

[St.Jude]

Did a bit more this evening.

Decided to peel back a bit more of the outer arch.

And it didn’t quite reveal the extent of this rot.

Cutting a bit more off did though. I am avoiding cutting off any of the arch as it is filler, and I don’t particularly want to think about what constitutes this filler to be honest. So if I don’t cut it, I don’t think about it.

Anyway, inner arch tub attaches itself to the inner sill. I drilled the holes out, and went tappy tap tap on it…

Bust a hole in to it. To be honest this part of the inner sill is rotten to fuck so my toddler could have done this with his plastic hammer.

I think this has made the plans for the repair a bit easier.

I don’t have to cut all of that arch tub off like I did with the RAV4. It’s more or less the bit you see here. Behind this I think will be pretty much the same.

I will have an exploratory look this week before Saturday, the inside of it seems to be relatively solid. But I don’t doubt I’ll have to do the corner like I did the front.

[2flags]

You are a brave man to even attempt this, especially with a Lada. The steel may be a bit thicker, but the quality, well, let's just say that rust proofing didn't seem to be a priority. 

[St.Jude]

13 minutes ago, 2flags said:

You are a brave man to even attempt this, especially with a Lada. The steel may be a bit thicker, but the quality, well, let's just say that rust proofing didn't seem to be a priority. 

I saw on Instagram a meme that said something like " 'At least it's not drugs' as I look at my bookshelf full of books I buy but never read. "Those books cost money, but at least it's not money spent on drugs" ' - same with this thing really, although it's more time than money spent.

You remind me of something that happened yesterday when I don't think I mentioned. As I was undoing the spot welds on the outer sill, a row of 2 or 3 spot welds altogether popped off. I'll take a photo tomorrow, but whatever Russian did it could not be arsed with those three spots. They weren't even in awkward places, they were right in the middle of the door aperture! So whatever I do it's better than that.

[RichardK]

RX8 engines really don't need a lot of maintenance if set up right (and not already broken when acquired), but the height of the E-shaft/gearbox can make them tricky to fit into cars designed around an upright piston engine. Hence the awkwardness of MX-5 to RX-8 swaps even when the NC shares a fair bit of RX tech.

A rotary Lada makes you one of the Inner Party Elite, comrade.

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, RichardK said:

RX8 engines really don't need a lot of maintenance if set up right (and not already broken when acquired), but the height of the E-shaft/gearbox can make them tricky to fit into cars designed around an upright piston engine. Hence the awkwardness of MX-5 to RX-8 swaps even when the NC shares a fair bit of RX tech.

A rotary Lada makes you one of the Inner Party Elite, comrade.

Yeah while it sounds awesome (and it is), I need to keep modifications to the bulkhead and transmission tunnel to the absolute minimum - ideally not touch it at all.

They gave rotary Ladas to the KGB, apparently: https://jalopnik.com/the-soviets-made-fast-ish-rotary-powered-ladas-for-the-1850125728

Engines look fucking wild though!

[Dyslexic Viking]

MX5 engine?

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

MX5 engine?

Considered it, but it’s heavier than a K Series for the power it puts out. 

[Dyslexic Viking]

Since I'm Scandinavian, A turbo Volvo red block and driving sideways everywhere with a hot Swedish blonde as a passenger feels right for this.

[St.Jude]

3 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Since I'm Scandinavian, A turbo Volvo red block and driving sideways everywhere with a hot Swedish blonde as a passenger feels right for this.

Now the hot blonde passenger I could do with!

I don't want it to go mental really. I want it a bit lighter than it was, a bit stiffer than it was, and better traction that it had as I think it's better to go around a corner quickly than hoon in a straight light. The 1.6 K Series reports power of 109bhp as a standard engine, in something that is under 100kg. The Lada 1200 has something like 62bhp in an engine that weighs nearly 130kg. I have the benefit of not needing a catalytic converter, so maybe add 5bhp to that. The engine itself can go up to 140bhp N/A relatively easily by all accounts. I did have ideas of a supercharger but I've gone off the idea really.

I'm sure you'll have seen that Peter Bjork fella with his Volvoghini? He's stuck a Lambo V12 in the front of a Volvo 240, and is currently building a V10 mid-engined estate. That's very wild!

[Dyslexic Viking]

3 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

I'm sure you'll have seen that Peter Bjork fella with his Volvoghini? He's stuck a Lambo V12 in the front of a Volvo 240, and is currently building a V10 mid-engined estate. That's very wild!

Yes, I've seen it, it's wild as you say. And thinking about this, I checked what a V6 Alfa Romeo engine weighs and it's more than what you want, unfortunately with around 170kg.

But a K series sounds well suited to what you want, so it's probably the way to go.