Scottish anti-shite LEZ legislation pending....act now

[clayts450]

Pilfered from the R8 Owners Club forum:

Copied from another club forum (see if you can guess which one) as not received directly

Good Evening All,

Can you assist in helping to prevent discrimination against the Scottish Historic Vehicle Movement?

The Federation would be grateful if you can forward this information to your Scottish group(s) within your Club.

Attached is a document detailing what you can do. This URGENT action is required before Tuesday 4 June 2019.

When communicating to your MSP please mark your emails as ‘High Importance’ with the title ‘The Transport (Scotland) Bill’ to enable them to act within the specified time.

If you have any questions please liaise with Bob Owen, FBHVC Legislation Director on 01935 873064 or [email protected]

Kindest Regards

Emma Balaam

Secretary, Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs Ltd

. 

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/dow ... p?id=12086

The proposed LEZ legislation will ban virtually all vehicles with measurable exhaust emissions from Scottish city centres. That will automatically include all of our vehicles, as they emit CO and significant quantities of unburnt hydrocarbons (as compared with newer cars with catalytic converters that emit CO2 instead of CO, and minimal HC). The equivalent legislation in England does have a waiver for recognised historic vehicles, but the proposed Scottish legislation does not.

MSP Murdo Fraser has proposed an amendment to the Scottish legislation that would introduce such a waiver, but unless it is supported by other MSPs, the amendment won't be included and henceforth historic vehicles would be banned from Scottish cities. Hence a request for members north of the border to lobby their MSPs to support it.

[sutty2006]

More governments trying to get rid of historic motors 

[big_al_granvia]

murdo fraser hasnt got a clue, for all the damage classic/historics do it is negligible. why not lobby the scottish environment minister roseanna cunningham  https://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/cabinet-and-ministers/cabinet-secretary-environment-climate-change-land-reform/

you might also weant to lobby the transport minister michael mathieson https://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/cabinet-and-ministers/cabinet-secretary-for-transport-infrastructure-and-connectivity/

you might get somewhere as holyrood is governed by the snp

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, big_al_granvia said:

....you might get somewhere as holyrood is governed by the snp

I thought the SNP were more concerned with having another go at another independence referendum?

[Alusilber]

Coincidentally, Edinburgh Council this week launched an online consultation thing regarding their LEZ proposals:

https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/edinburghlez/

An inner and outer zone are proposed; only buses and HGVs will be affected in the outer zone.

 

[Alusilber]

2 hours ago, big_al_granvia said:

you might get somewhere as holyrood is governed by the snp

I think MSPs from other parties are still allowed to propose amendments to bills though ?

[big_al_granvia]

9 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I thought the SNP were more concerned with having another go at another independence referendum?

no governing scotland is still the day job, dissolving the union is the weekend one... i might be a snp member and activist but i can still see when legislation is shite

[Alusilber]

I dutifully emailed my constituency MSP, and he got back to me with an update today. The relevant committee debated the bill last Wednesday but Mr Fraser was persuaded that due to the committee not having had a chance to consider evidence etc. that his amendments should be deferred to stage 3 of the bill. I don't know when that's likely to happen.

The full gory details of the meeting can be found here:

[Tartan58]

Although I'm not totally sure what the question is (are we reducing congestion and pollution or topping up the governments piggy bank?) I don't think this is the answer.

The answer is really very simple and I've been saying it for years. You want fewer cars on the road then get rid of the archaic view that everybody* needs to travel to an office in the city at the same time of the morning and sit there all day doing stuff they could easily do from home and then all travel home again at the same time, it's a completely ridiculous and wasteful way of living. 

I appreciate there are many jobs where you do require to be 'on site' but the culture should be "if you can work from home then you should", not "you'd better have a damn good reason not to be in the office at 9am sharp"

[HMC]

Targetting such a minority group seems a lot of hassle for minimal gain. Surely there are easier, larger returns to be made elsewhere.

Typical groupthink from persons not in a position of perspective.

[chaseracer]

"Low-hanging fruit"...

[DVee8]

There was something on the news this morning about charging for work place parking. But being payed £400 a year to use public transport.

[Tartan58]

Yes, another idiotic idea from CEC so that they can fund their tram that doesn't go anywhere you want it to*

So, Mr Business owner you own a premises that has private parking for your employees, well sorry we don't like that so you'll have to pay £400 a year per space.

As I understand it from an article I read a few weeks ago it is the employer who will be charged and it is at their discretion whether to pass the cost on to their employees. Can the council even legally charge someone to park on their own private land? By the sounds of this yes in which case I'm sure it won't be long before they charge you to park in your own driveway.

Not heard the bit about being paid £400 to use public transport, how would they verify that? Could you drive to work, pay the £400 to park at the office then walk back 2 stops and get the bus back to work and claim the £400 back?

Another brilliant idea they are implementing next year is closing off areas of the city to cars on certain days so that everyone can enjoy sitting in a traffic jam elsewhere increasing pollution and being unable to get where they need to go..... genius.

[anonymous user]

1 hour ago, Tartan58 said:

 

Another brilliant idea they are implementing next year is closing off areas of the city to cars on certain days so that everyone can enjoy sitting in a traffic jam elsewhere increasing pollution and being unable to get where they need to go..... genius.

I think that's what the climate change protesters did when I was in Edinburgh, it ruined my one bus tour. 

[Tartan58]

Indeed, and lo the council saw it and said it was good, therefore let us make it the law ...

[captain_70s]

3 hours ago, DVee8 said:

There was something on the news this morning about charging for work place parking. But being payed £400 a year to use public transport.

Handy given public transport is so expensive, unreliable, over crowded and frequently unavailable.

[clayts450]

WPL has been a thing here in Nottingham for years (I think it was one of the first in the UK). All it does is result in hard-up teachers parking their cars outside the schools they work in, and come chucking out time it's total gridlock.

To be fair, though, the funding raised (many millions) went towards the tram extension and the Station redevelopment and also was pumped into a united local public transport system which has worked and continues to work rather well. If you have to wait more than 7 minutes for a bus/tramwithin city limits there's likely been something beyond the transport company's control

https://bettertransport.org.uk/blog/better-transport/winning-policy-nottinghams-workplace-parking-levy

Nottingham also moved away from introducing a Clean Air Zone, mainly because a lot of the City Transport's buses are moving over to biofuel https://www.nctx.co.uk/gasbus

[Alusilber]

Just a quick update on this; after the Stage 3 debate on this on 9th October, it looks like an exemption for historic vehicles could be on the cards after Michael Matheson told Murdo Fraser he was "strongly minded to include such exemptions". Interestingly, Murdo's amendment used the FIVA definition of "historic" (ie. at least 30 years old) rather than the DVLA one.

The debate can be found here (pages 51/52) :

: 

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

it would take me about 2.5 hours EACH WAY for work which would then not allow the 11 hour rest period rule

[Tre3]

On 6/14/2019 at 11:44 AM, DVee8 said:

There was something on the news this morning about charging for work place parking. But being payed £400 a year to use public transport.

It already exists. At least in Nottingham.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/10/17/nottinghams-workplace-parking-levy-creates-jobs-cuts-car-use-and-slashes-pollution/

They've talked about it for at least 15 years so I'm surprised it took this long. Hopefully its been well planned for. Don't use it so can't comment. Overall I think its necessary. Shouldn't be too difficult either. Provided they increase space and services in the numerous existing park and ride services. Of course it won't be popular but it seems crazy that almost anyone with a car can drive through a tiny portion of a city that just happens to be the most densely populated by pedestrians, just so they can park near to work. Of course our cities road networks don't help. 

Also completely agree about the stupidity of all these office jobs existing in prime real estate when there is no reason to be there other than its in the city centre. When often all most will do is answer the phone and reply to emails. Mass working from home can't come soon enough.

 

EDIT: just noticed this has been mentioned further down the thread. Didn't get that far yet.

[Tre3]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:47 PM, Tartan58 said:

Another brilliant idea they are implementing next year is closing off areas of the city to cars on certain days so that everyone can enjoy sitting in a traffic jam elsewhere increasing pollution and being unable to get where they need to go..... genius.

Do you not think that many will choose to simply not drive instead? 

 

I'd be surprised if the amount of cars on those days isn't massively reduced. 

[Tre3]

17 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

it would take me about 2.5 hours EACH WAY for work which would then not allow the 11 hour rest period rule

That seems very much an outlier. Can you not split the journey by parking at a transport hub?

[Noel Tidybeard]

5 hours ago, Tre3 said:

That seems very much an outlier. Can you not split the journey by parking at a transport hub?

nah cruise set M42-M6 50mpg jobs a goodun

[Skut]

Living right on the edge of a proposed LEZ in Dundee I was surprised how modest the intended zone actually is. Whilst the different proposals vary which vehicles are admitted none vary the physical size. Living on Victoria Road at the top right I'd rarely venture into that little quadrangle as it wouldn't facilitate my actually going anywhere. Many of the 'roads' are either pedestrianised or dead ends.  

As an example Mary Ann Lane at the far right end corner of the LEZ and pictured below isn't going to generate much revenue for anyone. 

[Mrcento]

40 minutes ago, Skut said:

Living right on the edge of a proposed LEZ in Dundee I was surprised how modest the intended LEZ actually is. Whilst the different proposals vary which vehicles are admitted none vary the physical size. Living on Victoria Road at the top right I'd rarely venture into that little quadrangle as it wouldn't facilitate my actually going anywhere. Many of the 'roads' are either pedestrianised or dead ends.  

As an example the Mary Ann Lane at the far right end corner of the LEZ and pictured below isn't going to generate much revenue for anyone. 

The only issue i can see is access to the overgates Bank street car park, but people will just use the Debenhams one at the other end of the overgate if they don't have a lez compliant car.

As you say, The town centre is so heavily pedestrianised anyway, there's no need to take a car right into it. It's all pretty much just dead ends or streets that loop back out to where you started and given that there's nowhere to really stop near the shops outside of the shopping centre car parks, the impact to 90% of motorists will be zero.