project Invacar MK12 - New owner Mrs 6Cyl

[LightBulbFun]

IIRC @Zelandeth had the DVLA eat his V5 as well when he changed the tax class to historic, but im not sure how long it took for him to get it back tho

but the main thing is you have the car in your name etc, so you can Tax it again and go for a drive without anyone giving you any funny looks if you wish!

(I believe the DVLA says you can use a vehicle while its undergoing a change etc)

tho obviously a vehicle has to be road legal etc!

(well I imagine you will still get funny looks because Invacar  but not funny looks from the police wondering why its not in your name!)

 

it will be interesting to see how things go when I finally do it with REV!

(its interesting to note that the previous owner of REV was not disabled, but he never changed the tax class or seemingly had to, mind Im not actually sure if REV was ever used on the road in his ownership!)

 

 

BTW although thankfully no longer relevant  I figured this is worth posting just as some retroactive reassurance that no matter what happened we would of been able to get your Mk12 road registried somehow! 

in that here is a Mk12, that was re-registered under an Age related plate with a dating letter from the ICR etc, without knowing what its original reg was etc

(this was one of the last ones stuart did before he "called it quits", and only because it got dragged out over a couple years, hence why its October 2018, even tho stuart officially called it quits in 2017 sometime IIRC? it was sadly done before we discovered the whole Essex records and V62 thing hence why it is on an age related plate and not its original plate)

 

 

[egg]

Is that one complete and road-worthy as far as you know?

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

Is that one complete and road-worthy as far as you know?

I dont know exactly sadly, I know back when it was registried it was described as a "rough old dog" but I don't know how it stands today

however I speculate it would of been done before the Mk12 was recommissioned 

for the same reasons you wanted to get XWC registered before commencing restoration/recommissioning work

(in that you wanted to make sure you could actually register it in your name/drive it on the road, before putting in a load of work right?)

[mk2_craig]

Isn’t there some facility at DVLA where (if you have all the relevant evidence) you can surrender an age related mark, if the original mark isn’t assigned to another vehicle, and get that original mark back? Or alternatively transfer the age related mark to another vehicle, assuming it’s not got the “non-transferable” restriction on it, and get the original reinstated that way. I’m sure if someone went to the trouble of going through local office records to marry up chassis number and reg mark, they’d be sympathetic to reissuing the original mark if available. 

[egg]

That's just what I've done Craig, I've got my original reg, but to be fair I didn't have any number in the first place.

[LightBulbFun]

56 minutes ago, mk2_craig said:

Isn’t there some facility at DVLA where (if you have all the relevant evidence) you can surrender an age related mark, if the original mark isn’t assigned to another vehicle, and get that original mark back? Or alternatively transfer the age related mark to another vehicle, assuming it’s not got the “non-transferable” restriction on it, and get the original reinstated that way. I’m sure if someone went to the trouble of going through local office records to marry up chassis number and reg mark, they’d be sympathetic to reissuing the original mark if available. 

aye yeah thats called a V765, plus a V55/4 if your also registering the vehicle rather then just claiming its registration number

20 minutes ago, egg said:

That's just what I've done Craig, I've got my original reg, but to be fair I didn't have any number in the first place.

what you did was different, you did a V62,  which was "Just" applying for a V5c

however as XWC468F did not show up on the DVLA checker online most people thought the DVLA had no records of it still, so people thought you would have to V765 and V55/4

but luckily that was not the case!

 

as far as the DVLA is concerned you never "claimed" XWC468F for your vehicle, they just dug up the records for XWC468F stuck it back on the computer, and then sent you the V5 for whatever XWC468F was attached to!

its just your V62 was a little bit more complicated then most!

[mk2_craig]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

That's just what I've done Craig, I've got my original reg, but to be fair I didn't have any number in the first place.

Aye - what I was banging on about is something that’s live, on the road but lost original reg somehow. I know someone with an old bus that had a “cherished” mark put on it at a few months old, then transferred off some years later and the original mark wasn’t reinstated - the local office issued a fresh mark on the same year letter, which I think was standard practice back in the early 90s. He’s now keen to get the original back, once he finishes restoring it. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, mk2_craig said:

Aye - what I was banging on about is something that’s live, on the road but lost original reg somehow. I know someone with an old bus that had a “cherished” mark put on it at a few months old, then transferred off some years later and the original mark wasn’t reinstated - the local office issued a fresh mark on the same year letter, which I think was standard practice back in the early 90s. He’s now keen to get the original back, once he finishes restoring it. 

yeah that will be a V765 jobby https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/704583/V765.pdf

assuming the original registration has not been issued/transferred to something else

if it has then I guess you need to sweet talk whoever has that reg in giving it back to the vehicle it belongs to!

 

[Zelandeth]

Don't think the V5 vanished on the tax type change, the first V62 vanished into the aether though.

They did randomly just decide my Xantia was untaxed though, despite my having not touched anything nor them having stopped taking the direct debit payments...first I knew was when I got the angry Untaxed Vehicle letter from them...

 

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Don't think the V5 vanished on the tax type change, the first V62 vanished into the aether though.

They did randomly just decide my Xantia was untaxed though, despite my having not touched anything nor them having stopped taking the direct debit payments...first I knew was when I got the angry Untaxed Vehicle letter from them...

 

ah my bad!

I just recall asking you in person about if the body type changed or not (since I saw that the engine capacity changed but the wheel plan etc never got updated, so I was curious if the body type changed since I know at first you did try and change it to Tricycle) , and I remember you saying something along the lines of chasing up the DVLA to get the V5 back

but perhaps I miss heard,

(thankfully soon after that I discovered some online tools that told me the body type, which thankfully is still invalid vehicle for TPA, so in this case DVLA shenanigans actually did some good! LOL)

[egg]

I did my usual check of trying to tax my Invacar and...Yay!

Changed from Disabled tax to Historic vehicle online..so hopefully the updated V5 will arrive with me soon.

 

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

I did my usual check of trying to tax my Invacar and...Yay!

Changed from Disabled tax to Historic vehicle online..so hopefully the updated V5 will arrive with me soon.

 

Woo glad to see things are moving!

its interesting to note that when the guy with 4 Model 70's called the DVLA about getting their V5's

the guy on the other end said for the tax class on the V62 to put down "historic" for the tax class in the V62 application form

which seems to indicate that you can change the tax class with the V62?

would be interesting to try and see what happens!

if it does work, it would streamline things a bit and reduce the risk of things getting lost in the post!

[Six-cylinder]

23 minutes ago, egg said:

I did my usual check of trying to tax my Invacar and...Yay!

Changed from Disabled tax to Historic vehicle online..so hopefully the updated V5 will arrive with me soon.

 

How did you change the Disabled tax to Historic on line?

[egg]

Ah I didn't. I did it at the post office a few weeks back, there have been delays which I followed up 10-11 days ago with the DVLA.  That follow-up seems to have led to action.

When I 'normally' try and tax this vehicle it comes up with tax class disabled (using the 11 digit V5 and registration number) - now it comes up as historic.

[egg]

Oh hello, I now own a historic vehicle.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh hello, I now own a historic vehicle.

ohh yay!  did the 11 digit V5 number thingy change or did that stay the same?

now once ya decide which engine your using/get running

you can fill in the engine number and correct the wheel plan/engine capacity

and send it off once again! LOL

interesting to see that indeed it is Historic vehicle rather than just "historic" 

(BTW does it really say 1 previous keeper? because my comercial HPI tool says 1 total keeper, which would indicate no previous keepers, also says 1 V5, although I dont know if a taxation class change counts towards the V5 count or not!)

[mk2_craig]

Brilliant news. Although it’s taken a while, glad the “hunt through the local archives” suggestion has led you to this stage. Just need some fuel in the tank and you can pop down the shops in it!

[Mrs6C]

56 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh hello, I now own a historic vehicle.

Fantastic! Well done!

[egg]

Well thanks for everyone who has helped get things this far.  I hoped to be at this stage in the spring! (32 page thread!)

Defo one former keeper, and a new V5 number.

If nothing else, I hope that this has at least ensured the future of the 38th known remaining MK12. But many challenges ahead before I get to cruise around Whitstable and Herne Bay (at least both towns are relatively flat!).

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Well thanks for everyone who has helped get things this far.  I hoped to be at this stage in the spring! (32 page thread!)

 

Well since it is garaged you got yourself a Nice winter project at least!

sadly cant do much to REV over the winter I dont think sadly, im just hoping I will have her on the road before May, id really like to make it to shitefest in her  

interesting on the keeper count! good to know on the V5 number, hopefully when I do REV's change to historic vehicle, I get a V5 back with an easier to remember number!

XWC468F is the 37th known surviving Mk12  (with ONO454D being the 38th sort of, stuart knew of it beforehand but not any details on it, so one could argue he knew about it before XWC, since stuart didn't know of XWC468F at all until we unearthed it, quite literally!)

[egg]

The DVLA do like writing to me, this arrived today...

I'm tempted to say, is it really a big problem? But I'll of course respond politely and there is an email option.

BTW, before anyone else says it - I realise it is because for a few days the car showed as taxed but not insured as per the MID. But as you may remember, I had to tax it to change tax class (see also Mrs 6Cyl)

[LightBulbFun]

just send the letter back with a picture of XWC, should be pretty clear that "oh yes I need to tax it because I plan to drive it down to scotland yesterday!"

[LightBulbFun]

figured this is worth posting here, given the crusty state a couple of your wheels are in IIRC!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283684669956

a set of 12 inch wheels for most 12 inch wheeled invalid vehicles  

if the Model 70 parts sheet is anything to go by they are dunlop LP 591 wheels specifically  

also posting because I think the 12 inch wheels are little bit harder to find then the 10 inch wheels (given the 10 inch wheels are just Mini rims, whereas while im pretty sure the 12 inch wheels where not invalid vehicle specific, i don't think there was 1 particularly popular car that used them)

[egg]

Thanks @LightBulbFun, I wonder if the PCD is the same as my wheels? I would like these if so, but will need to call on the goodwill of forum members for collection...

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Thanks @LightBulbFun, I wonder if the PCD is the same as my wheels? I would like these if so, but will need to call on the goodwill of forum members for collection...

AFAIK, it should be  

4x100, after the mid 1950s or thereabouts the ministry standardized on 12 inch wheels across the board for all invalid vehicles (even some Argsons were converted to 12 inch wheels)

(I think the Tippen Delta was the last to change to 12 inch wheels the change from 16 inch wheels to 12 inch taking place in 1966 with the introduction of the Delta 6)

[Mr Pastry]

Mini and other small BMC had a PCD of 4 inches = 101.6mm.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Mini and other small BMC had a PCD of 4 inches = 101.6mm.

aye I believe its that

the 12 inch wheels are Dunlop LP 591's

and Dunlop LP 1161 for the 10 inch wheels used on Model 70's from GPL351N and JAR185N and onwards

curiously I can find very little on the internet about any of those wheels

id of expected to find something at least on the 10 inch wheels, because supposedly they are the same as what the Mini used, but I cant find anything

 

[egg]

I'll see if I can measure mine before the auction ends, should have bloody done that Saturday morning if I had my brain in gear.

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, egg said:

I'll see if I can measure mine before the auction ends, should have bloody done that Saturday morning if I had my brain in gear.

The Model 69 (tippen Delta electric), 66 (Invacar Mk12) and 59 (tippen Delta petrol) all share the same Store No 3137 for their 12 inch wheels from the DHSS spare parts list

(the Model 67 64 and 57 also share the same the same Store No for what its worth, the Model 70 uses a different numbering system for its parts hence why its not on the list even tho as I said im positive the wheels are the same)

so just based on that alone if I was in your shoes I would bid safely knowing they will fit the Mk12, since if they fit a Tippen Delta they will fit an Invacar Mk12  

 

[bezzabsa]

Throw some MGN Rostyles on the back '_)