Crap headlights

[Bren]

Why do so many cars have crap headlights? On M56 earlier this evening I was behind a 15 plate merc that obviously had xenons - it was like daylight. Our passat, like many others on the motorway, cast a light similar to a circa 1976 ever ready torch.

 

Our vectra had headlights that were poor to the point of being dangerous - driving at night, in rain on unlit roads required superb sphincter control. I fitted a HID upgrade which was superb but now an MOT failure.

 

My BMW has adaptive xenons - unfortunately the adaptive bit is not working (green tell tale light flashing near the knob) there is moisture inside them and the lens are faded / scratched. You do not want to know how much replacements cost.

 

So is it cost cutting by the manufacturers to blame eg plastic lenses or just bad design?

[Richard]

All headlights with plastic lenses are shit, regardless of the light source.

[lesapandre]

To turn this on its head there are those cars that have overbright headlamps even on dip...or those on all the time type lamps - can make journeys very tiring even by dipping the mirror and moving the wingmirrors.

[drivewaymyway]

I recon modern car manufacturers are trying to get away from the 'NON' Environmentally friendly glass bulb / wire and gas bulb and the option is non recyclable LED along with associated technology, also with cars supposed o be electric the energy cost in running a LED is far less thus saving battery power..  

 

  Personally LED and HID LED headlamps should be banned they need better Development consultation and safety testing, the technology is too infant and currently is very dangerous to other road users, I've been blinded as a pedestrian, a cyclist, a motorist and a motorcyclist but most often as a motorist.. There is a lot of third party development and testing that clearly shows the blue light given off by LED / HID is damaging your retina, causes brain signals to get scrambled causing sleep disorders but in the short term the temporary blindness ( welders eye)  is likely to increase the chance of a collision or in Town, a pedestrian to get run down. There are States in the U.S. that have installed the same LED lights in lamp posts as street lighting, the effect has been lack of sleep for Humans AND animals ( wild and domestic) with an increase in noise and animal activity but most worryingly crime has increased in most but not all states. Normality has returned when the LED lights were replaced with LED producing less that 3200K ( less blue light more Amber ). 

 

  There are and have been petitions asking the Government to ban or investigate the lights properly.. Interestingly there was a Government reply to a report back in 2008 which said something like 'Some people my be inconvenienced'.. Would you expect a more informed / insightful response by the Establishment ??

 

 The Irony is that the three Scientists ( one Japan and 2x USA ) that discovered a reliable 'Blue' light were given the Nobel Prize for Physics in 2014, clearly they are not responsible for the application of the invention..

[mercrocker]

Motorways and dual carriageways seem OK but back roads are horrible now if there is traffic at night.   Did an A3 run down to the A32 last night in very light drizzle just after dark.  About the worst combination for being dazzled and distracted by oncoming headlamps.    

 

In addition to the basic design inadequacies there seem to be a lot more new-ish cars about with one or more lights not working.  I supposed there isn't a quick bulb change possible on many of them.

[Tamworthbay]

Try something properly old for really fun* lighting. I have had some shite ones but the worst of all was a 53 James Cadet. A candle would have genuinely been brighter and with the added advantage that it wouldn’t go out when the engine died. I used it as a daily for six months (don’t ask) and it was superb apart from that. At the time it was working at a lab in the middle of nowhere and the ride home in the dark was a real hoot if there were no cars around to follow.

[dozeydustman]

I think a lot of the problem with the HID and LED lamps is not only their brightness, but the positioning of headlamp units now with modern car design. They are positioned a lot higher than 10 years ago due to crash regulations and the like.

 

My Saab has HIDs as a factory fitment, and tbh I'm not that impressed with them on dipped beam - even though they're set correctly and they self-level, they seem too low, and the projector globe lens seems to cut a lot of output from it. Full beam they're excellent, but the H4 units in Mrs D's corolla are better on dip.

 

The 410 bulbs in my Horizon and Simca were the worst. Good dip pattern and spread, but the output was next to useless until I changed them to Hb13s.

[stonedagain]

Most of the dazzle seems to be caused by the self-levelling being too slow to react.

[Richard]

And the plastic lenses scattering the light all over the place.

[Cavcraft]

Wait 'til you try a Ford Puma in the dark.

[Squire_Dawson]

 

 

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[SiC]

I think a lot of the problem with the HID and LED lamps is not only their brightness, but the positioning of headlamp units now with modern car design. They are positioned a lot higher than 10 years ago due to crash regulations and the like.

 

My Saab has HIDs as a factory fitment, and tbh I'm not that impressed with them on dipped beam - even though they're set correctly and they self-level, they seem too low, and the projector globe lens seems to cut a lot of output from it. Full beam they're excellent, but the H4 units in Mrs D's corolla are better on dip.

 

The 410 bulbs in my Horizon and Simca were the worst. Good dip pattern and spread, but the output was next to useless until I changed them to Hb13s.

Wind up the height a bit. My 9-3 (non HID but projector) were shocking when I first got it. I would it up a couple of turns and it made a massive difference to being able to see. Passed the MOT just fine.

 

It is/was a common complaint on the Saab forums. Seems like that Saab had them set very low out of the factory.

[barrett]

I have terrible night vision, and yet I have absolutely no problem making tim on unlit back roads in all manner of ancient cars with poor lights. Until, that is, somebody else comes the other way in a modern and blinds me.

 

So are my headlights bad, or are theirs too bright? Pretty obvious if you ask me.

 

If I was in charge of everything I'd force all cars to be fitted with 6v lighting systems where the main beam is barely different from dipped, and if people have trouble seeing at night then they can slow the hell down. Modern drivers, and manufacturers, seem to think you should be driving in the dark at the same speed as you would drive in the middle of the day. Total bullshit - you drive according to the road conditions, and fitting super dazzling light canons doesn't nullify that.

 

I HAT modern headlamps

[drivewaymyway]

Motorcycles with HID are the worst, the headlamp bounce is all over the place..

[Captain Furious]

My ST220 has factory fit xenons, they’re friggin ace (apart from a problem recently when the plug was off the levelling sensor which made them point at the floor)

 

When I first got it I had loads of people flashing me thinking I was on main beam, I had them recalibrated by Ford and not had a single flash since, so I can only conclude they’re not dazzling anyone anymore.

 

Contrast with my Mk2 Granada which has headlights like glow worms in jam jars, I’m firmly in the camp that supports advances in headlight technology.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....In addition to the basic design inadequacies there seem to be a lot more new-ish cars about with one or more lights not working....

These may be the same drivers who think that DRLs alone are enough for night driving.

[dozeydustman]

Wind up the height a bit. My 9-3 (non HID but projector) were shocking when I first got it. I would it up a couple of turns and it made a massive difference to being able to see. Passed the MOT just fine.

 

It is/was a common complaint on the Saab forums. Seems like that Saab had them set very low out of the factory.

 

 

I may well do that. Even if I scrap/sell/roffle her before May when the MoT is due, I'd rather have safer night vision.

[SiC]

One thing to point out is that bulbs age. As they age they dim. Especially on modern HIDs that don't tend to blow. It's quite noticeable when you change a 100k original bulb to a new one. Our A4 is on 176k with original bulbs.

[Captain Furious]

To add, being dazzled by oncoming headlamps has everything to do with where they’re pointing and nothing to do with how bright they are. Most modern headlamps use the same light source for main beam and dipped beam. With just a moveable reflector to switch between the two.

[mercrocker]

 

Contrast with my Mk2 Granada which has headlights like glow worms in jam jars, I’m firmly in the camp that supports advances in headlight technology.

 

My experience with square headlamps (the 190E is the same) is that they represent exactly the kind of stylistic "improvement" that saw a decline in headlamp efficiency.   Things got better afterwards - my Mk3 Granada was significantly better than my Mk2 but the 190E is worse than my W123 - snakes and ladders development.  

 

I know us old car chuffers go on about how good stuff was "back in the day" but my Cowley on its sealed beams is, if anything, a better car to drive at night than my 190E.  The Minor has H4 conversion and is way, way better than the Mercedes which just scatters light everywhere except where its needed.   

[forddeliveryboy]

Active safety seems to have taken a back seat since awareness of the passive sort has taken hold (30 years after Saabs, Citroëns &c. were engineered to be much safer than the average but back then the masses thought safety wasn't important) and driving with fewer than 10 airbags is seen as somehow as reckless.

 

I remember the GS's and CX's lamps (apart from the ones with seperate beam reflectors) being awesome - the reflector area was massive, deeper than they were wide. In contrast their successor's lamps were advertised as designed by some whizzkids and a humongous computer using poly-summut technology but utter shite.

 

It seems today it doesn't matter since your satnav warns of upcoming bends - the super-bright are clearly intended to impress the easily-impressed, intimidate and make life hell for other road users.

 

Gimme excellent headlights and just a couple of airbags, thanks.

[Captain Furious]

My dad, god rest his soul, was a firm subscriber to the “all square headlights are shit” doctrine, having come from Triumph 2000’s to Mk5 Cortinas and Mk2 Granadas

[mat_the_cat]

There are States in the U.S. that have installed the same LED lights in lamp posts as street lighting, the effect has been lack of sleep for Humans AND animals ( wild and domestic) with an increase in noise and animal activity but most worryingly crime has increased in most but not all states. Normality has returned when the LED lights were replaced with LED producing less that 3200K ( less blue light more Amber ).

 

Whilst daylight at 6500K (at least in the UK, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65) is presumably OK? I too dislike the 'blue' tint of some LED lighting, but suspect that it's not actually the colour temperature which is to blame.

 

Obviously daylight has a CRI of 100 versus maybe 80 for a 'typical' LED, a warmer LED below 3200K is no more likely to have a higher value. I genuinely wonder what could cause the effects seen n the studies (but off on a tangent here...)

[forddeliveryboy]

Perhaps the flicker of LEDs?

 

Those super-bright headlamps aren't so clever because they're so bright you see nothing beyond their beams - at first you think 'Wow!' but unless they're adjusted so high they're a danger to others, driving briskly on dipped isn't anywhere near as easy as you'd think.

 

Blue-ish colours are daft, they scatter more readily (it's why the sky looks blue and the sun yellow), most obvious in the wet and misty when the old Froggy Selective Yellow comes into its own. Also why our old 'white' tungsten bulbs aren't that bad, with a decent size reflector.

[rickvw72]

I own an old Beetle with dynamo, and a Mk2 Golf. My standards for illumination are quite low.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....I remember the GS's and CX's lamps (apart from the ones with seperate beam reflectors) being awesome - the reflector area was massive, deeper than they were wide....

 

They were still shite enough to convince Morette to revert to circular headlamps.

 

They won't be making any more kits for the GS/A either

[AMC Rebel]

Most of the dazzle seems to be caused by the self-levelling being too slow to react.

As far as I understand it, the auto levelling is only to ensure the beam doesn't point skywards when you have 25 paving slabs in the boot - it's not meant to respond to road conditions is it?

[dieselassist]

...when I was a kid, my old man had me with him doing a delivery (ran his own furniture/carpets shop)one winter evening n we were about 50 miles from home n the alternator packed up on the shops 'Toyota liteace diesel' - radio went down to a whisper n he lost all dash lights - he explained what he knew about diesels (about as much as you can write on the back of a stamp); but he knew enough to know that with the battery draining, the solenoid for the pump would lose power n eventually stop the van altogether..."no mechanics open this time of night he reasoned..)

 

...inevitably he lost headlamps, but his solution was tailgate the car infront car n use 'their headlamps'; this caused the car infront to speed up, n it became a bit of a circuit car race; where the car infront wasn't on the same route hed speed up to catch the car infront that was n tailgate them... as an 11 year old kid, I found this very exciting... we eventually got to the front door before the liteace died...

 

Nowadays he shirks all nighttime driving n makes sure to arrange his day around this; eg, even visiting me; my sister with his grandkids....He still has good vision but he cant handle the 'glare' of modern headlamps he says; gives him a 'bad headache' n he'll be hours driving home...

[drivewaymyway]

Whilst daylight at 6500K (at least in the UK, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65) is presumably OK? I too dislike the 'blue' tint of some LED lighting, but suspect that it's not actually the colour temperature which is to blame.

 

Obviously daylight has a CRI of 100 versus maybe 80 for a 'typical' LED, a warmer LED below 3200K is no more likely to have a higher value. I genuinely wonder what could cause the effects seen n the studies (but off on a tangent here...)

 

 The studies were on the existing LED Street lamps which were 5200K but the effects were reduced when 3200K lamps were used as a replacement.

[LightBulbFun]

Perhaps the flicker of LEDs?

 

Those super-bright headlamps aren't so clever because they're so bright you see nothing beyond their beams - at first you think 'Wow!' but unless they're adjusted so high they're a danger to others, driving briskly on dipped isn't anywhere near as easy as you'd think.

 

Blue-ish colours are daft, they scatter more readily (it's why the sky looks blue and the sun yellow), most obvious in the wet and misty when the old Froggy Selective Yellow comes into its own. Also why our old 'white' tungsten bulbs aren't that bad, with a decent size reflector.

 

tis also worth mentioning this is one of the things that made Low pressure sodium street lights so good

 

a Low pressure sodium discharge has a monochromatic light output which happens to be right near the peak sensitivity of the human eyeball

 

monochromatic meaning it outputs light of only 1 wave length, this means it cant scatter in fog or rain etc (you cant split a single wavelength ) and because its right at the peak sensitivity of the human eyeball it means you get Very high lumens per watt 

 

the most efficient Low pressure sodium lamps can hit 200LPW AFAIK the absolute best case from LED is roughly 140 maybe? not bad for a technology which in its current form goes back to the 1960s (with roots back to the early 1930s) (and is much more reliable, with the control gear consisting of just a big wire-wound iron core ballast-transformer rather then a complicated electronic driver that goes bang at the first sign of slight damp)

 

all of this makes me very sad to see that there are very few low pressure sodium street lights these days, most of have been replaced because "MODERNISE!" even if whats replacing it is shit.

 

(oh dear I seemed to have gone off on a bit of tangent...  )