invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Mrs6C]

^^^ Well done! Glad it is becoming easier for you and that you are enjoying making progress.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

^^^ Well done! Glad it is becoming easier for you and that you are enjoying making progress.

Thanks! im also very happy about it!

 

spoke to the owner of the 4 Model 70's over the phone, he found my research very interesting as he does similar things regarding Land rovers

and he understood my concerns etc, and said he will get me the chassis numbers from the actual chassis themselves, so I can properly ID them

 

 

and this is the best part, I knew he had full HPI access, so I asked him about it and it turned out to be a website I knew of before, but I was reluctant to go through making a trial account with and then paying money for full access

because I was not sure if said website actually had full HPI access or not, but I gave him a couple difficult registrations I knew would trip up a non proper website, and they actually worked!

so iv just gone ahead and wrangled myself an account with this website/company and now I have a full HPI look up all to myself!

it can pull the chassis numbers of registrations no matter how long untaxed etc!

REALLY exciting stuff!, it costs 15 pence per lookup but iv thrown £50 so it should last me a couple days at least

it can also do a VIN to reg look up, but this one does not work as well, but it does work for Invacar Model 70 chassis numbers!

as Invacar Model 70 chassis numbers are unique enough not be the same across multiple vehicles,

as such I took the chassis number of SOI7570 one up did not return anything but going up again gave me SOI5192 another NI Model 70  

(where as AC Model 70 chassis numbers are generic enough that there might be other vehicles with the same VIN which confuses the system)

 

it also tells me what previous vehicle registration numbers a car has had if it has been plate raped etc, and keeper count etc

it really is the full 9 yards and is very exciting!

it means I no longer have to feel bad when I had to send my HPI guy another 10 registrations for him to look up! LOL

 

GIG4834, stuart did tell me it was used as a registration horse, Ie a vehicle that people transferred regs to just to keep em there, he was not kidding!

[LightBulbFun]

Ohhh this is exciting! 

so I know JHJ548N is the 8th private example, and REV451R is the 23rd private example

so I tried the chassis of what would be the 9th private example, and BAM!

check it out! (obviously iv taken the reg and shoved it into the DVLA checker!)

Private Invacar Model 70 number 9! and most interestingly, a Non Essex registration!

until now I had thought private Invacar Model 70's where registered alongside their government counterparts!

but clearly thats not the case!

[LightBulbFun]

and luckily Private AC Model 70's have a unique enough chassis number

that the chassis number to reg works for them too! interesting to note that this private AC is Surry registried, but not in any sort block, its just on its own

 

its the private example above JNJ135L for those wondering 

 

obviously I cant say if GPM is a survivor or not, but the fact that I now have a way of finding the private examples is very exciting!

 

also slight correction SOI5192 is 5 Model 70's before SOI7570

[Zie]

Been reading though this thread for a while now as I remember these knocking around when I was a kid. 

This popped up on Facebook today and thought you might be interested in seeing were some of One ended up.  Apparently the use of invacar roofs was banned not long after this car changed hands. 

Added a couple of random pic from my phone too. 

[LightBulbFun]

46 minutes ago, Zie said:

Been reading though this thread for a while now as I remember these knocking around when I was a kid. 

This popped up on Facebook today and thought you might be interested in seeing were some of One ended up.  Apparently the use of invacar roofs was banned not long after this car changed hands. 

Added a couple of random pic from my phone too. 

I hope your enjoying the thread  

what exactly is "252" is it sort of race car? why where the use of Invacar Roofs banned? what property did they posses that led them to being banned! LOL

must curious as you say!

reminds me of

[Zie]

Sorry missed that bit off, it's a Brisca f1 stock car. Unfortunately I don't know why they were banned, I'm a newcomer to watching stock car racing having gotten into it after years of watching bangers. 

Yeah an enjoyable read, I've always had an interest in obscure cars especially the mechanical side of things. 

[LightBulbFun]

9 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

REALLY exciting stuff!, it costs 15 pence per lookup but iv thrown £50 so it should last me a couple days at least

 

I was kidding

Honest!

oops...

but many Model 70 holes have been patched with a side of Mk12 identification  

full write up  once iv had some rest, but some very exciting stuff! (for me anyways!)

[LightBulbFun]

so this "HPI tool" (although I dont think its run by the HPI guys)

is bloody awesome! most awesomely the VIN to Reg function, although not perfect does seem to work well enough to even work with AC Chassis numbers which are notoriously short and generic

funnily enough although it means I have to search numbers twice, the fact that some chassis numbers have a period in them for whatever reason, actually helps, because it makes the chassis number that bit more unique so more likely to get the right result

so it means I can get a reg number, from a known chassis number directly

so I just finished using it to track down every NI AC Model 70 that existed more or less  (well it was more a case of filling in all the holes, and most turning out to be NI cars!)

 this is the list arranged in chassis number order, car missing means where I could not find anything for that chassis number sadly, (obviously I have removed the chassis numbers here, but if you could see them it would ascend down the list so UOI3369 is the earliest late NI Model 70 with TOI8137 being the last/latest)

its worth noting that in regards to the chassis numbers the dates of first registrations etc are all over the place, with the last car being registered on 20th of the 4th 1983!! CXI936, but CXI936 is relatively "early" late car chassis number wise if that makes any sense!

now this is the list of all the Late Northern ireland cars, I also discovered pockets of of earlier NI cars, filling in holes in the blocks  (like for example between NPM-R and OPH-R there were 8 missing Model 70's turned out these where NI regged ones, but more on those in a later post)

but yeah doesn't look like NI Model 70's where registered in neat blocks like english examples where

indeed it looks like the last Model 70's all went to NI, now its worth noting that although the last civilian Model 70 was issued on the 5th July 1978, however people on the War pensioners scheme, had the option of an invalid vehicle  (Model 70 by this time) until 1983, and me and stuart wonder if this has anything to do with NI and the troubles

I guess this is where @Datsuncog you come into it! I was wondering if you knew anything about how the motability scheme operated over in NI back then? Me and stuart wonder if they were scared by the troubles, so the government had to keep issuing Model 70's?

but its worth noting although registered very late, production defo ended in 1978 as proved by WOI654s chassis plate, so somehow the government knew to stockpile Model 70's or something like that!

I have to say I never thought id be able to track down the NI cars like this, but this is exactly why I wanted a proper HPI tool all to myself, so I can sit down with and smash the crap out of it LOL

am I right in saying that all these are belfast registrations? its also interesting to note that apart from 1 earlier NI Model 70, no NI Model 70 is registered as AC (ELECTRIC), there all AC or A C  AC CARS or something like that

UPH-S block ends here UPH150S-UPH249S

UOI3369 

VOI5021 

YOI8219 

(Car missing)

UOI6704 

(Car Missing)

YOI114 

UOI4719 

CXI936 

XOI4205 

UOI5312 

UOI7353 

XOI3069 

AXI5626 

(car missing)

UOI6765 

(car missing)

UOI4102 

TOI8138 

VPG-S block-here VPG243S-VPG269S

YOI1494 

XOI6671 

(car missing)

AXI8227 

YOI7512 

YOI2878 

WOI7337 

TOI4917 

(car missing)

YOI1253 

YOI2877 

(car missing)

XOI6472 

YOI2281 

(car missing)

WOI7668 

YOI1495 

VOI4758 

WOI654 

YOI1894 

YOI1873 

AXI380 

XOI3494 

YOI2158 

XOI3284 

(car missing)

(car missing)

YOI9052 

YOI657 

YOI2256 

AXI5627 

UOI8852 

BXI1879 

WOI8523 

UOI7509 

YOI4077 

VOI1134 

WOI6281 

VOI6073 

VOI1137 

(car missing)

UOI8849 

(car missing)

UOI8850 

VOI1136 

TOI4343 

GIG4834 (orignial reg WOI4001?)

(car missing)

VOI1135 

(car missing)

XOI6819 

TOI8137 Last AC Model 70 off the production line?

 

and just to round it up, heres all the NI Invacar Model 70's I could find, not many!

end of XEV-S block XEV49S-XEV116S

(car missing)

SOI5192 

UOI8851 

(car missing)

WOI7435 

UOI8025 

SOI7570 Last Invacar Model 70 off the production Line?

 

and this is not all that I have discovered with the HPI tool, there's quite a bit more to come in time  

[busmansholiday]

16 hours ago, Zie said:

Sorry missed that bit off, it's a Brisca f1 stock car. Unfortunately I don't know why they were banned, I'm a newcomer to watching stock car racing having gotten into it after years of watching bangers. 

Yeah an enjoyable read, I've always had an interest in obscure cars especially the mechanical side of things. 

Dez, drop @Mally a note about this, he's the stockcar man on here, he may be able to answer the question.

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, busmansholiday said:

Dez, drop @Mally a note about this, he's the stockcar man on here, he may be able to answer the question.

I was thinking that  

but got a bit distracted by the NI stuff I just finished doing!

but yeah @Mally do you have any idea what the whole invacar roof thing was about?  

[Mally]

252 Dave Chisholm. World Champion 1973, 1974, and 1975, in that I think.  Edit, missed the 74, sorted now.

Knew it was a fiberglass roof but didn't realise what it was off!

Raised a few eyebrows at the time, there was a steel plate under the fiber glass,, and it wasn't illegal, but rules were changed later on.  I think one objection was fire risk.

F2's are now allowed fiberglass bonnets, and Rebels have a complete fiberglass lift up roof these day's though!

Immaculate car, bought later by Rob Bradsell who also had great success in it.

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, Mally said:

252 Dave Chisholm. World Champion 1973 and 1975, in that I think. 

Knew it was a fiberglass roof but didn't realise what it was off!

Raised a few eyebrows at the time, there was a steel plate under the fiber glass,, and it wasn't illegal, but rules were changed later on.  I think one objection was fire risk.

F2's are now allowed fiberglass bonnets, and Rebels have a complete fiberglass lift up roof these day's though!

Immaculate car, bought later by Rob Bradsell who also had great success in it.

ah interesting thank you for the info  

73-75 interesting , im guessing the roof is probably off an AC Acedes Mk14 or Mk15 then,

as I don't think many if any Model 70's where headed to the bailers just yet then

(they where still in production in 1973-75!)

[LightBulbFun]

now as mentioned above, the above list is all the NI cars that followed from the last of the english cars

but there where a few NI Model 70's dispersed throughout production, even before english cars stopped

 

the remaining NI Model 70's are as follows

KOI6214 sits between JPL44N and KPC391P

its the earliest NI Model 70 I can find

next 2 sit between KPC590P and KPK32P in a 10 car gap

missing car

KOI8712

5 missing here

KOI8716

2 missing here

KPK32P

I suspect there where 8 More, but sadly those 2 are the only ones I can pull from that gap,

next lot is interesting

between KPL211P and LPE801P theres a 7 car gap

right after KPL211P is 

LPF701P a lone english car not part of any block, but is a government example

then a missing car then 5 NI Model 70's

LOI1821

LOI1817

LOI1819

LOI1820

LOI1816

LPE801P etc
 

then between LPE993P and LPL781P are 10 missing cars and here it really gets interesting!

the first missing car sadly does not show up

but the second one comes back as VNB590S, NB is Manchester, now the main invacar stores was at heywoods manchester! I wonder if this was meant to be a NI Car, that for some reason was never sent over,  then eventually registered by heywood themselves for use in england (rather ironically its registered as a Tricycle rather then as an invalid vehicle) or it could of been a NI car that was brought back, but then I imagine they would not have had to re-register would of they?

 

then after that is

LOI6835

then 2 missing cars

LOI6831 

then the next 2 I have no idea at all! none of the details match a Model 70, the only thing that does is "AC (ELECTRIC)" and the chassis number, nothing else like body type or engine numbers etc matches a Model 70

  

and the second one, this one at least has a Surry reg LOL, MOT checker says its 16/80 which is a 1930s AC car... (guess at least it tells us just how far back the whole AC (ELECTRIC) thing goes)

 

then 2 missing cars

then LPL781P etc

next NI Model 70 show up between LPL870P and MPD477P (where theres a 7 car gap)

this one was a surprise because I did not expect it to exist in the first place, as I thought the first 7 from this Chassis block may have been crash tested to comply with EU Crash test regulations of the time (this chassis block was when the rollover bar was added)

(the spare part lists, specifically mentions somethings regarding this chassis block but excludes the first 7 chassis numbers of this chassis block)

however the first one shows up as LOI8065 but the other 6 don't show up sadly with the 8th car being MPD477P as above

then after that the next NI Model 70's to show up is in a 3 car hole between MPD566P and MPH611P

MPD566P

LOI9672

LOI9674

and the 3rd cars chassis number not turning anything up sadly

then MPH611P etc

 

then between MPH810P and NPC1P there is a 23 car gap

MOI4951

MOI4948

6 missing here sadly

MOI4949

MOI4944

then a cheeky little english block of 13 cars  NPB987P-NPB999P

then onto NPC1P etc

after that the next NI Model 70's to show up is between a 11 car gap between NPC86P and NPM781R (just discovered this one while typing this post out ) 

the first 2 missing cars sadly dont turn up

MOI5679

MOI5944

4 missing cars here

MOI5683

and 2 missing cars here

then NPM781R etc

then between NPM970R and OPH691R is an 8 car gap containing 

NPM970R

MOI7366

MOI7367

missing car

MOI7369

MOI7425

MOI7426

2 missing cars here

OPH691R etc

then between OPH890R and PPC337R is a 3 car gap containing

OPH890R

Missing car

NOI4292

NOI3336

PPC337R
 

then theres a 1 car gap between PPJ596R and RPF14R but sadly nothing shows up for that chassis number 

 

and thats all the holes in filled in  

it was funny because I would look at those holes of missing chassis numbers and wonder what the deal was with them

now I know its where the Northern ireland Model 70's where hiding, plus a few cheeky english examples!

im very happy to have finally been able to fill in those gaps!

if you add the NI cars from the last post the ones in this post you should be able to figure out how many Model 70's Northern ireland got roughly  

 

I hope this all makes sense!

[mrbenn]

You're a machine, LBF! I don't know how you look all this stuff up, you're like the Duracell bunny!

All very interesting, the way you're making use of all these online facilities is fascinating.

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

You're a machine, LBF! I don't know how you look all this stuff up, you're like the Duracell bunny!

All very interesting, the way you're making use of all these online facilities is fascinating.

haha thanks  

that's what happens when I get (very) enthusiastic about something! I get very determined!

 

I wanted to know what the history and production history of the Model 70,  I doubt anyone was going to do it, so I just decided im going to figure it all out!

even stuart admitted regarding what I had found/figured out he would not of found/figured out "this side of the ice age"

and well here we are! plus there's the very important aspect of, by figuring this all out it gives us better and better chances at IDing any unknown Model 70's that show up, as shown where it all started with MPH759P  

im very happy to finally have direct access to a proper "comercial" HPI tool (even if its cost me a bit more money then id like to admit! but someone has to do it LOL)

it allows me to do so much more than I could previously do with the DVLA checker, any online tools I managed to track down

the reverse Find reg number from chassis number being a big one that let me find all the northern ireland cars, and also the private Model 70's that will be next write up I think!

because I have/had no idea what their reg numbers would be, but I knew what the chassis numbers would be  so I could then take the chassis number shove it into the tool and see what reg/car it came back attached to!

as as mentioned the commercial tool does not care how long the vehicle has been untaxed for, as long as it still shows up on the DVLA database I can pull its chassis number etc  

plus the new tools and methods I discover in my Invacar research etc also come in handy for other non invacar things, like people wanting to know what the previous reg of their car/motorbike was etc

(for example I originally tracked down such a tool that could tell me that, when I realised VES108S was not XEV88S's original number plate, so I wanted to find a tool that would tell me the previous registrations of a vehicle to back up my theory etc)

 

On 7/17/2019 at 9:28 PM, egg said:

Bornite, you are going to have to get a Tippen Delta!

 @BorniteIdentity your Tippen Delta is here!  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174088082071

youngest known surviving Tippen Delta for those wondering, if @BorniteIdentity doesn't want it, maybe one for @Mrs6C ? an electric 3 wheeler to bridge the gap between the milk float and Dolly the Model 70  

I also see theres a Model 70 behind it im curious which that one is

[egg]

An electric one, what batteries does it run on LBF? Just 12v car batteries? Last time it was for sale it didn't have any. This advert doesn't give us much to go on!

https://picclick.co.uk/Classic-Car-3-wheeler-single-seater-invalid-Tippen-232621797848.html

I think plasticvandan is partial to a Tippen as well.

Oh and bet there's no V5!

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, egg said:

An electric one, what batteries does it run on LBF? Just 12v car batteries? Last time it was for sale it didn't have any. This advert doesn't give us much to go on!

https://picclick.co.uk/Classic-Car-3-wheeler-single-seater-invalid-Tippen-232621797848.html

I think plasticvandan is partial to a Tippen as well.

 

Ah how could I forget @plasticvandan  of course 

indeed a bunch of 12V batteries  

 

I love the DHSS Reserve sticker and almost 0 mileage I wonder if that's accurate

Every tippen delta after about 1970 was electric, they where previous petrol vehicles refurbished and converted to electric, as the Model 70 had no electric version, hence why the Tippen delta stuck around

(I think the whole petrol to electric conversion thing makes them one of the first if not the first case of mass conversion of a petrol vehicle to electric  ) 

[egg]

Do we know of anyone using an electric TD on the road? As edited above I bet there is no V5 - so there's 6 month's work for a start ?

I quite fancy it myself, because in terms of re-commissioning would probably be fairly easy*. But I don't have the space/money and the MK12 would have to go..

[Mrs6C]

In other news, Dolly is now MOT exempt, insured and taxed as an Historic vehicle... or so the Post Office says! Her latest logbook has now headed off west to Wales for the second time...

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

In other news, Dolly is now MOT exempt, insured and taxed as an Historic vehicle... or so the Post Office says! Her latest logbook has now headed off west to Wales for the second time...

Great to hear, what are you updating on the logbook now?

[egg]

Re: the TD - I wonder where the 36v electric motor was sourced from?

[LightBulbFun]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Do we know of anyone using an electric TD on the road? As edited above I bet there is no V5 - so there's 6 month's work for a start ?

I quite fancy it myself, because in terms of re-commissioning would probably be fairly easy*. But I don't have the space/money and the MK12 would have to go..

Sadly none

my HPI tool says no V5s have been issued and the last keeper change was 29/05/1980 with 2 total keepers

but it shows up on the DVLA so thats good at least!

yes it looks to be in pretty good shape  

probably best to think of it as a very large Sinclair C5 (cc @Zelandeth  )  

and I wonder in that regard, how modern battery tech may benefit it, just like how modern battery tech has helped C5s!

speaking of Tippens and C5s!

sure ya cant squeeze both the Mk12 and the Tippen in the garage together?  

or find a bigger garage  

30 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

In other news, Dolly is now MOT exempt, insured and taxed as an Historic vehicle... or so the Post office says! Her latest logbook has now headed off west to Wales for the second time...

Ohh good to know ill keep an eye on the various databases and let you know when they update  

(next time when you renew the insurance make sure they include Model 70 not just 70   its a common thing that catches many people out because they will see a Model: (text box) and think "Model: 70" so they just type 70 in the box not realising that "Model" is also part of the Model 70's Model name!)

[Mrs6C]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Great to hear, what are you updating on the logbook now?

Nothing! The 'new' one was sent off by the Post Office a couple of weeks ago with the tax class changed to Historic by the Post Office... I heard nothing back until this week, when I received a polite letter from the DVLA advising that I couldn't change the tax class unless I taxed the vehicle... and it enclosed the V5 I had sent off! It came with the forms to tax the vehicle as well, along with an SAE to fill them all in and send them back to the DVLA. @Six-cylinder decided it would be quicker to just go off and tax Dolly at the Post Office, so that's what he did today. The Post Office has now sent the (same, unaltered!) V5 off again...

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Re: the TD - I wonder where the 36v electric motor was sourced from?

im not 100% sure tbh!

the spare parts list does not say who made the motor just that its 36V and there were 2 types but both were suitable for all marks (so not sure what the difference was between the 2!)

it does remind me, I wonder if it comes with the charger?

granted if its not there its not the biggest loss in the world, I doubt it would be hard to rig up something modern with todays tech

strap some solar panels to it! LOL

[egg]

@Mrs6CGot it. Expect to wait a few weeks now.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

im not 100% sure tbh!

the spare parts list does not say who made the motor just that its 36V and there were 2 types but both were suitable for all marks (so not sure what the difference was between the 2!)

it does remind me, I wonder if it comes with the charger?

granted if its not there its not the biggest loss in the world, I doubt it would be hard to rig up something modern with todays tech

strap some solar panels to it! LOL

Looks like this owner has had it for about 18 months, and wonder if a brick wall has been hit in terms of getting it mobile.

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, egg said:

Looks like this owner has had it for about 18 months, and wonder if a brick wall has been hit in terms of getting it mobile.

hard to say exactly

we are assuming he wanted to use it and not just have it as some sort living room ornament which is sadly the case for even most Model 70's these days,

perhaps a message or 2 could be sent off (and maybe ask him about the Model 70 behind it for me as well ) 

 

[LightBulbFun]

P reg tippen delta FTW! I had wondered, since it was said the Tippen Delta ended "production" in 76 if any P reg examples existed, and stuart said he recalls seeing some in a scrap yard somewhere

well with my new HPI tool, I was able to find an example

 

 

I wonder what the latest tippen delta I can find that still shows up on the DVLA, you know im not sure when in 76 they ended production, can you imagine on on an R plate? LOL

edit: found an example from 76 at least!

 

[LightBulbFun]

Bam R Reg tippen Delta! its a little bit ridiculous at this point  (its worth nothing that these tippen deltas iv dug up are only a few chassis numbers apart, it seems like "production" operated on a very slow scale)

also one that survived until the very end it seems, stuart mentioned that 1 Tippen delta did survive until the end, I wonder if this is it or if I just found another!