invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

nope not a late Model 70 LOL, just discovered this picture on the same website, note the small sized Speedo, which was replaced in 1975 or so with a larger unit

it is interesting to see that someones removed the "passenger carrying is forbidden" sign and under it is a hole for if the hand brake was on the left side

edit: this is a bit of a giggle https://www.seiberer.at/cms/ergebnisse2004.html?&kl=12&sid=419 one of the vehicles in that list is not quite like the others

[busmansholiday]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:20 AM, LightBulbFun said:

 

 

ah my bad I should of been clearer, the mould lines im referring to are on the rear of the Model 70  (those head lamp trim rings could be sold as modern art! )

 heres a picture of one of TPAs rear mould lines that I took last time I was at Zels place

 

 

(the front Mould lines where eliminated with the AC Acedes Mk15, and of course the Model 70 shares much of its body shell design from that car and as such also has no front mould lines)

for reference ,

heres a Mk14

 

and heres a Mk15 

Are you sure they are moulding marks.

To me, they look like where separate panels were joined together to make a complete section.

When making moulds, it's far easier to have a smooth profile so it comes out of the former easily. Cutting a slot in the former to make that ridge makes no sense at all and simply makes thing more difficult.

Glass fibre technology progressed rapidly in the 60's, making larger moulds possible. I wonder who built the sections.

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

Are you sure they are moulding marks.

To me, they look like where separate panels were joined together to make a complete section.

When making moulds, it's far easier to have a smooth profile so it comes out of the former easily. Cutting a slot in the former to make that ridge makes no sense at all and simply makes thing more difficult.

Glass fibre technology progressed rapidly in the 60's, making larger moulds possible. I wonder who built the sections.

thats sort of what I meant by moulding marks, where 2 bits joined together

since I figured they could not mould such a large and complicated section in 1 go so they had to make it up of multiple panels joined together which causes the lines

I guess a better name for them would be seam lines or something?  (like what Minis have)

(I wonder if with the Mk15/ Model 70, if they finally figured out how to mould the front end in 1 go or if they just went through the trouble of removing the seam lines after joining the panels?)

I too wonder who made the panels on ebay, im curious if before production ended they stock pilled a bunch of body sections, or if after Model 70 production ended, they setup a small factory somewhere to churn out replacement panels a bit like how you can get new Mini and MGB shells/panels today

(although after the IVS closed to new applicants there pretty much would of always been a surplus of Model 70s as people moved to mobility so I imagine they could of used those to replace vehicles that had been damaged, but this IS the government we are talking about here LOL)

I know during production AC made its own panels, as its mentioned in that book above, and im pretty sure Invacar did too (hence why im curious about the report that the seam lines are different between AC and Invacar, or at least thats whats reported, TWCs seam lines look the same as TPAs ones to me! and sadly the guy who reported that, just shaved the seam lines off his Invacar Model 70 *grumble* )

 

as a side note on people giving up their Model 70's, from my DVLA bashing it looks like the Majority of Model 70s where scrapped (well last taxed) in the Mid to late 80s, so most lasted about 10 years, which I think was pretty respectable for a car back then LOL (and I imagine most of those where given up by their users as they went onto motability schemes, rather then scrapped because they where at EOL)

[LightBulbFun]

so I was looking at this blog post again https://petrolblog.com/2010/05/whatever-happened-to-the-ac-invacar

and I noticed the fresh comment left today (as a side note im pretty sure the guy who runs? the blog is on Autoshite ) 

so I decided to leave a response, I figured I should make an effort to try and clear up some of the common misconceptions people have regarding invalid vehicles  bellow is my response, does it make sense at all? LOL (sadly I cant seem to edit it otherwise id fix the spellchecker fails!) its waiting for approval hence why its not popped up yet on the blog post I think

 

Quote

its a very common misconception that the invalid carriage was illegal to own privately and drive on the road, but thats simply not true

invalid carriages where never actually banned from the road in 2003, its just the fact that 99% of the invalid vehicles on the road by 2003 where owned by the government and they as the owners of the cars decided withdraw and crush all the ones that they owned which happened to be almost all on the road at the time, but the vehicle type was never banned by the government from the roads or such (that would of been very unfair to those who owned private ones for example, you could outright buy an invalid carriage new privately direct from the manufacture back in the day if you really wanted too! but as you could also get one free from the government, very few people did, so privately owned invalid carriages where always very rare)

but as 99% where government owned it made it look like they where banned from the road because they all suddenly vanished if that makes sense ? its also worth noting all surviving Invalid carriages that where once owned by the government are no longer owned by the government since the invalid vehicle service ceased to exist since 2004, and have always been fully legal to own and drive on the road since then

its also a common misconception that you have to change the body type on the V5 from “invalid vehicle” to “Tricycle”, it stems from the fact that they where taxed as “disabled” because the users where disabled, but if your not disabled then you have to change the tax class, and before the historic tax class was introduced, invalid carriages fell into the Tricycle tax class like a reliant robin, many people took this to also mean you had to change the body type to “Tricycle” as well which as I said you dont you have to do, you only have to change the Tax class not the body type ?

all this means if you do own an invalid carriage you want to return to the road, all you have to do is apply for the V5, and once you have the V5, change the tax class from “Disabled” to historic ? (you dont have to do anything)

(and if you do own an invalid carriage of some kind do feel free to contact me, im a big invalid carriage enthusiast (focusing on Model 70’s) and am heavily involved with invalid carriage “scene” if you want to call it that!,

so im always interested to hear about ones people own! especially as I keep a running list of all Surviving AC and Invacar Mode 70’s)

for those wondering the last government owned invalid vehicle to be withdrawn, was an Invacar Model 70, TJN352R which was withdrawn on the 14th of October 2004, which is happily persevered in the coventry motor museum now ?

(I Probably should of had this proof read here before posting it on the blog but ah well LOL)

this does drive home the point that I really need to setup some sort of website one of these days that I can link people to

(as I dont think linking people to a 50 page forum thread is a particularly great idea LOL)

[dollywobbler]

If Zel can make the National Microcar Rally, we should have at least three Invacars there, as Mark from Kent has apparently booked his in too!

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

If Zel can make the National Microcar Rally, we should have at least three Invacars there, as Mark from Kent has apparently booked his in too!

which one? he has about 15 last I checked  (on a more serious note IIRC his running Model 70 is MHJ22P from Barry) 

if you do get a chance to talk to him at some point please ask him for me if he could take photos of the chassis numbers on the chassis and pictures of the VIN plates of his field of Model 70s for my records please! (especially as while I have most of the field find Model 70s IDed, there where a few there with no reg plates whos chassis numbers id like to know so I can try and ID them for my records) I have tried to message him via facebook but sadly I have not heard back

really am hoping I can make to the NMR, its quite a distance away from me, so if im not running around in my own Model 70 by then, figuring out transportation to  it is going to be fun* LOL

[LightBulbFun]

On 5/23/2019 at 12:05 PM, LightBulbFun said:

also for @OliD-E an N Reg AC Model 70 on 10 inch wheels, so probably means KPL would of indeed been on 10 inch wheels as well (also lends credence that Model 70,s jumped from 12 to 10 inch wheels around about 1973)

 

just to further clarify/update this it looks like the changeover from 12 inch to 10 inch wheels happened around June-July 1974 (which I think is when some other changes to the Model 70,s chassis was introduced as well, but more research is needed there)

(side note I noticed @SRi05 reacted confused to the post, is there something that does not make sense? im happy to help try and clear up anything that dosent make sense if thats the case?)

[Dick Cheeseburger]

21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

so I was looking at this blog post again https://petrolblog.com/2010/05/whatever-happened-to-the-ac-invacar

and I noticed the fresh comment left today (as a side note im pretty sure the guy who runs? the blog is on Autoshite ) 

so I decided to leave a response, I figured I should make an effort to try and clear up some of the common misconceptions people have regarding invalid vehicles  bellow is my response, does it make sense at all? LOL (sadly I cant seem to edit it otherwise id fix the spellchecker fails!) its waiting for approval hence why its not popped up yet on the blog post I think

 

(I Probably should of had this proof read here before posting it on the blog but ah well LOL)

this does drive home the point that I really need to setup some sort of website one of these days that I can link people to

(as I dont think linking people to a 50 page forum thread is a particularly great idea LOL)

A free forum takes all of 20 minutes to create. 

I'd imagine traffic would be low on such a niche car though- why don't you create a Wikipedia page instead? Easy to access and update. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

A free forum takes all of 20 minutes to create. 

I'd imagine traffic would be low on such a niche car though- why don't you create a Wikipedia page instead? Easy to access and update. 

thats why I said website and not forum, I imagine an invacar only forum would sink faster then the GoFundMe thing did LOL

I was thinking just some sort of Invalid vehicle info page, with a page about the general history things and general info on them, then sub sections detailing specific models of invalid vehicles a bit like countrybus.org or something similar

I do want to do something about the Wikipedia articles on the Invacar and the Invalid carriage however im a bit worried about editing wikipedia, its not something I have ever done before and I dont want to fuck it up,  but it is something I defo plan to do something about at some point  (I see someones already updated the invalid carriage a little bit mentioning TWC ) 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

thats why I said website and not forum, I imagine an invacar only forum would sink faster then the GoFundMe thing did LOL

I was thinking just some sort of Invalid vehicle info page, with a page about the general history things and general info on them, then sub sections detailing specific models of invalid vehicles a bit like countrybus.org or something similar

I do want to do something about the Wikipedia articles on the Invacar and the Invalid carriage however im a bit worried about editing wikipedia, its not something I have ever done before and I dont want to fuck it up,  but it is something I defo plan to do something about at some point  (I see someones already updated the invalid carriage a little bit mentioning TWC ) 

My bad - it's been a long week. Didn't realise there was already a Wiki page for them either. 

Is the Wiki page a general one? If not, could you create your own and edit to your heart's  content? 

[egg]

@LightBulbFun Gavin who runs petrolblog is a top chap in my book, he's even let a rank amateur like me post a few blogs on his site (after some judicious edits) - see here https://petrolblog.com/author/bend/

I believe that Gavin has also written for Wobbler edited magazines.

If you just drop him a line and explain you know Ian etc - he may well give you the opportunity to write an article....

[st185cs]

Seams all round so it would seem....!  

All recovered basket cases from the Sussex field of dreams and MHJ have seams but it doesn’t appear to be an indication of being a join between two panels. I would thus describe them as mould marks, between two components forming the full mould. 

I visited Fraser long before the field of dreams as he had a second vehicle for sale. We didn’t do business. However, I did view his restored Model 70 and when I enquired as to the missing seams I was told they had been there but had been sanded off as part of the restoration. To make it more modern may have been the reference but could be mis remembering on that point....

[st185cs]

....of course, I’m referring to the rear section only. The front sections all have no seams/mould marks. 

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, egg said:

@LightBulbFun Gavin who runs petrolblog is a top chap in my book, he's even let a rank amateur like me post a few blogs on his site (after some judicious edits) - see here https://petrolblog.com/author/bend/

I believe that Gavin has also written for Wobbler edited magazines.

If you just drop him a line and explain you know Ian etc - he may well give you the opportunity to write an article....

oh thats very cool, I may do that at some point, like wikipedia, I have never written before in a professional capacity like that, so its all new territory for me

7 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

My bad - it's been a long week. Didn't realise there was already a Wiki page for them either. 

Is the Wiki page a general one? If not, could you create your own and edit to your heart's  content? 

nah its cool, I just got back from a total cluster fuck of a Friday so I feel you! (also why I have not responded sooner )

heres the 2 articles im referring to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invalid_carriage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar

 

5 hours ago, st185cs said:

Seams all round so it would seem....!  

All recovered basket cases from the Sussex field of dreams and MHJ have seams but it doesn’t appear to be an indication of being a join between two panels. I would thus describe them as mould marks, between two components forming the full mould. 

I visited Fraser long before the field of dreams as he had a second vehicle for sale. We didn’t do business. However, I did view his restored Model 70 and when I enquired as to the missing seams I was told they had been there but had been sanded off as part of the restoration. To make it more modern may have been the reference but could be mis remembering on that point....

5 hours ago, st185cs said:

....of course, I’m referring to the rear section only. The front sections all have no seams/mould marks. 

yay happy to see your still around  indeed fraser has had a good number of Model 70's (he seems to have a habit of buying up Model 70s and then selling them on)

I have talked to him in good length, and properly Figure out VES108S's (XEV88S) history for him which was quite fun , he actually owned 1 Leg and RRE20L for a while too, but sadly he never recorded their chassis numbers  (im really curious what 1 Legs real ID is, and im also very curious to find out if RRE20L is actually a private Model 70 or not)

(he said 1 Leg had lost its VIN plate/Lube chart thing and sadly he was not actually aware of the  chassis number also being on the suspension top mount until I pointed it out to him)

which is here just incase your also not aware  (its a good ass saver incase a Model 70 you come across has lost its cabin vin plate/lube chart plate thing, like in the case of MPH759P)

 

 

also I apologise if I come across a bit frustrated towards you in some of my past posts, when 15~ Model 70's show up relatively recently and then vanish with hardly any details, hopefully you can see why I got a bit frustrated!

but I am happy to hear your still around and are now aware of this threads existence, even if you dont have time to post much here, I hope that what I have posted here will help you out with your own Model 70's

[SRi05]

On 6/13/2019 at 7:30 PM, LightBulbFun said:

just to further clarify/update this it looks like the changeover from 12 inch to 10 inch wheels happened around June-July 1974 (which I think is when some other changes to the Model 70,s chassis was introduced as well, but more research is needed there)

(side note I noticed @SRi05 reacted confused to the post, is there something that does not make sense? im happy to help try and clear up anything that dosent make sense if thats the case?)

Sorry chief, no idea what happened there. Must have been my fat thumb by accident when scrolling ?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, SRi05 said:

Sorry chief, no idea what happened there. Must have been my fat thumb by accident when scrolling ?

ah cool no problem, I was Just checking, I like to make sure that if something is confusing or does not make sense that Im made aware of it so I can attempt to clarify/fix it

[LightBulbFun]

despite the pain and cluster-fuck that was friday, (I got dragged out the house for something which turned into a right pain in the back, when a bunch of trains got cancelled and I had to sit/stand around for 20 minutes at a time waiting for trains to arrive, and then coming home, the family I was with did not account for the fact im slower on my feet then most people, so missed some trains coming home which meant more standing/sitting around)

im happy to report its not been all bad, in that @st185cs got in contact with me and provided me with some very interesting info about his field find cars  (including chassis numbers etc)

im very happy to have finally gotten some info on those Model 70s  as long term followers of this thread know, that bundle of 15 Model 70's have been quite the mystery for me

while it turns out I actually already had most of the field cars documented there where a couple that I did not, and also a couple that I was told where survivors but had no info on, and now I have a bit more info on them

first up I was able to add TPE285S to my list, (I thought I already had it documented but I must of been thinking of TPE297S)

I think I may have come across TPE285S when bashing the DVLA beforehand but never documented it, because despite it showing as last taxed in 2003, I cant pull up its chassis number for some reason, so finally happy to add that one to my lists

he also has a couple Model 70's with no registrations that I was able to ID for him from their chassis numbers for him , rather amusingly and interestingly I already had both of them documented in my number plate/chassis list, the 2 Unknowns he has are VPK822M and MPH659P  so the list/all the DVLA bashing is "paying off" nicely  (MPH659P might be MPH649P im waiting for him to double check the chassis numbers on that, either way tho I did not have MPH649P in my chassis number/Reg number lists so happy to have found and added that one too)

and again while I had VPK822M and MPH659P documented in my registration number-Chassis number list, and had been told that they where survivors,  up until now I did not know any details of them (like where they were from/where they are now or who owned them etc) so im happy  to find out a bit more about them

also turns out that there's a second Invacar Model 70 in that field with a miss matched chassis numbers (ie what's on the chassis itself is not what it says on the VIN plate)

but interestingly while the first Invacar Model 70 from the field that I found out had miss matching numbers, had an AC Model 70 chassis, this Invacar Model 70 just has a slightly later Invacar Model 70 chassis I think

(it also has "Check" chiseled into the VIN plate next to the Chassis number on the VIN plate, so someone at some point was clearly aware of something going on, but the miss matched Invacar Model 70 with the AC Chassis does not have that AFAIK)

and finally I was able to confirm the Chassis number of NOO738M so have added that to my chassis number/reg number lists, while I had another NOO-M Model 70 in my list already, and I could of easily extrapolated to NOO738M, I only add the Reg-Chassis numbers to my list once I have properly confirmed it

either via pulling it from the DVLA database when I can with the Number plate to VIN number website I have on hand, or if someone has physically checked the numbers on the car and tells me about it

so yeah things have been quite productive on the Model 70 front

[egg]

Good stuff, but what about the Ali G car? Any progress?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Good stuff, but what about the Ali G car? Any progress?

I plan to give the person a call tomorrow  (as sadly I still have not heard anything back from my emails)

[egg]

great, PM me if there is a viewing in the offing.

[LightBulbFun]

more exciting Model 70 news @st185cs just grabbed some pictures of the rear mould/seam lines on 2 of his Invacar Model 70s (MHJ22P and OVW445P) for me

and it's very interesting to see that indeed the mould/seam lines on an Invacar Model 70 are different the ones on an AC Model 70, the mould lines come to a sharper point, compared to an AC Model 70, which you can see in the pictures bellow  im rather excited by this discovery, as it looks like it gives us a solid way to tell an Invacar Model 70 body from an AC Model 70 body (up until now I could only tell apart the chassis apart)

 

 

and for reference TPA621M (an AC Model 70):

 

general rear end shots:

 

 

 

its worth noting that rather interestingly TWC seemingly has an AC Body or rear end....

[sloth]

my only memory of these things is my best mates dad plowing into one in tescos with a transit, and it exploding in a shower of fibreglass. a worthy end.....

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, sloth said:

my only memory of these things is my best mates dad plowing into one in tescos with a transit, and it exploding in a shower of fibreglass. a worthy end.....

pretty sure someone recorded that and used it in a movie

(side question tho, what did you mates dad do after crashing into it? like I wonder would you get fined by the DHSS for damaging their property? LOL)

[LightBulbFun]

On 6/16/2019 at 5:47 PM, egg said:

great, PM me if there is a viewing in the offing.

so I gave the person a call, and got someone else (but this happened the first time where they just handed me to the person of interest when I explained who I was and what I was calling about/for)

this time I got something along the lines "oh said person with a customer, we can call you back"

which I was fine with

only I never got called back ? 

I'll give them another call tomorrow play it cool and give them the benefit of the doubt

I just hope that the no response to my email and this phone call thing is not a sign of things to come

[egg]

I get the feeling this will be a game of persuasion!

[LightBulbFun]

Woop! called again just now, went much better, got ahold of the person I wanted to talk to right away, and have been told he was actually grabbing pictures and a video of the 2 Invacars for me yesterday (and for the other person interested in his 2 invacars that has been dicking him around for the past 5 years) he said he will email me them to me shortly

so I very much look forward to those ariving in my inbox, I guess it's another waiting game tho LOL

(and I confirmed with him that indeed the person much prefers to sell the 2 invacars and spare parts in one big lump rather then split it up)

[666jjp]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:11 PM, Jmac said:

You should contact him if you can , I saw the full episode, the owner was a invalid carriage enthusiast, he really enjoyed owning them and the history . You might have some information about his cars he doesn't know.  He might want his cars added to your list ! 

I caught a best of programme with him on it, he had a couple of english reg's,  ytb768n and wpc902m

[LightBulbFun]

45 minutes ago, 666jjp said:

I caught a best of programme with him on it, he had a couple of english reg's,  ytb768n and wpc902m

oh very cool!, thank you for noting those down for me, those 2 registrations have provided me with quite a bit of additional info just now 

 YTB768N is thought to be the youngest surviving Tippen Delta  (one for @plasticvandan there ) and would you look at that @egg  and @Datsuncog  "not taxed for on road use" and It too also shows up on all the websites and I can pull its VIN exactly like what I can do with LVX293J, curiously enough no export marker on YTB even tho we know its in the US... (I wonder if the "not taxed for on road use" is/was a side effect of being exported in the past?)

(edit: just realised the tippen delta shows up as a Petrol vehicle, that cant be`right, as they stopped making tippen deltas in petrol form in 1970, plus its Chassis number contains "69E" and Model 69E, was the DHSS name for the electric tippen delta, yay* for DVLA inaccuracies, I do wonder given it says 500cc if someone did the V5 as if it was a Model 70?)

WPC902M I documented in my survivors list already, (see the thread index on the first post of page 1 )  however im very happy you manage to catch its reg because due to rather confusing reasons I have it listed as 903, having checked a couple other sources and with you new info,  its clearly WPC902M so ill correct that now

(I had feeling it may of been WCP902M instead of WPC903M when I found out what that Model 70 was, because 902 shows up as untaxed since 2003, where as 903 shows up as untaxed since 1993, its like MPH759P all over again LOL I also wonder the same for UAR977S because UAR978S  is also untaxed since 2003, where as 977 has been untaxed since 88, but Im still waiting on more info to confirm or deny that one)

[LightBulbFun]

been meaning to post this pair I came across a while ago, while I THINK I may of come across another picture of the tippen delta somewhere else, the AC Acedes (Model 57) is new to me

fun thing about that Acedes, is it got an MOT in 2007, wonder how the tester took to the controls  (reg is FPD167B incase its hard to make out)

 

https://flic.kr/p/bFLgAH

 

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

YTB768N is thought to be the youngest surviving Tippen Delta

My own words taste yummy!

I remembered there was another N reg Tippen Delta out there, (showed up on ebay during 2018, I wonder what became of it)

decided to check when it was registered/made and what do you know LOL

 

 

I know tippen deltas where made until 1976, so I think that would mean the very last would be on a P plate, now thats some invalid carriage late registration madness!

sadly I have not seen any pictures of such an example, let alone if any survive or not