invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

South of Brighton

Really? That'll be rusty then 🤣

[OhNoWhatHaveIDone]

4 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Really? That'll be rusty then 🤣

 

4 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Really? That'll be rusty then 🤣

Now now, play nicely !

[High Jetter]

Brighton is on the sarf coast, sea below. I'm really surprised it was so local to me, how much history do you have?

 

[OhNoWhatHaveIDone]

14 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Brighton is on the sarf coast, sea below. I'm really surprised it was so local to me, how much history do you have?

 

Sarf! Cor blimey!  All I've been told is the Farmer I bought it from who listed within eBay bought it from the local scrappy 20 years ago, when they were being rounded up by the gov't for his then young teenage kids to run around the farm and play in.

When they grew out of it, it was still in full working order, but parked up and forgot about... Luckily The keys were left in the ignition and the chassis plate is still there! 

[LightBulbFun]

23 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

Especially for @LightBulbFun

very cool! 99AWD, I think thats a new one for TheList(TM) a 1959 Harding Deluxe Electric, but rather interestingly with handle bar controls, I am not sure I have seen an electric harding with that setup before now, I have seen a few Petrol machines with that scheme

but I think all the Electric hardings have been of tiller control like so

[wesacosa]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235712862370?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=DEbCUh0zQRS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8AFYP6nlRMa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[D.E]

Invacar photobomb:

[OhNoWhatHaveIDone]

12 hours ago, D.E said:

Invacar photobomb:

Brighton?  if it is would be nice to think it's my recently rescued one... Pallet, found nearby,  who knows?   Fred....

[OhNoWhatHaveIDone]

Hello Everyone,  Just wanted to give an update on Part Two of the rescue and getting 'Pallet' finally in the garage, after being left in the lurch.......Sorry its been a few days, but a LOT has been going on in the background eh @lightbulbfun !

Well, poor thing was left at the side of the road with half of the windows missing, but put away safe in the garage, I could not lock it, as only had the ignition key and engine/bootlid key.....  Putting a tarpaulin over it luckily stopped the local scroats from causing damage, thank goodness when returning next day....

Thinking laterally!   It needed to be moved around 10ft, diagonally, as the garage is in the corner, wheels seized solid, as was the steering, three perished, virtually hanging off.....

I put a post on the local community groups on Facebook, and within literally ten minutes two kind guys from the North East Restoration Club, (I had not heard of them!) messaged me and said no problem, we've got the gear, give us your address, glad to help!  They were coming from 15 miles away!

Turned up 2.30pm Next day, two of the nicest guys you could ever meet, About 6'6 and but built like brick outhouses!  It happened so quick, I don't know how it got moved so quick.!

They literally grabbed and lifted the two front chassis rails and moved them through 180 degrees, that took the front and offside wheel off the pallet!

Then they each attached a strap round the front chassis rails and dragged it in like it was a Tonka toy as I kicked the pallet off the nearside wheel, it was about 10-15 minutes end to end.....my jaw dropped.  The thing is they would not take any payment, they explained they are scaffolders and like classics and always looking for new challenges for fitness!  I'm still in shock I think,  naturally I shall be joining the club!  

It's so heartening to know that there are kind souls ready to help when someone is left in the lurch.......

I am so sorry there are no.pics of the movement as such by it happened so quickly, and I was watching out for walls and doors and trying not to hit them LOL.....!!!

please see some attached pics of the start of the before and after of the clean up......getting there........more to come......

all the best.......Fred !

 

 

[D.E]

6 hours ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

Brighton?  if it is would be nice to think it's my recently rescued one... Pallet, found nearby,  who knows?   Fred....

Yes! Strand Promenade, 1976.

[auntiemaryscanary]

11 hours ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

Hello Everyone,  Just wanted to give an update on Part Two of the rescue and getting 'Pallet' finally in the garage, after being left in the lurch......

I was wondering the other day how you were getting on... Great to hear it's now somewhere safe with the kind help of a couple of random fellas!

Has @LightBulbFun filled your inbox up yet?!

[OhNoWhatHaveIDone]

12 hours ago, auntiemaryscanary said:

I was wondering the other day how you were getting on... Great to hear it's now somewhere safe with the kind help of a couple of random fellas!

Has @LightBulbFun filled your inbox up yet?!

Dez has been brilliant 11/10!  To be fair, as has everyone here, lots of friendly help and advice. Thank you all. Really appreciated.... I'll keep the updates coming as long as the good people want them?  Fred 

[auntiemaryscanary]

23 minutes ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

I'll keep the updates coming as long as the good people want them?  Fred 

Yes please!

[plasticvandan]

Where's the flight to Scotland and drive back thread for REV then? 🤣

[beko1987]

21 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Where's the flight to Scotland and drive back thread for REV then? 🤣

It'll be a convoy now 😂 All the invacars should do the trip and convoy back

[OhNoWhatHaveIDone]

Good morning all, hope you're well?  Just a few quick questions on Invacar parts please.... Just starting to collect missing/broken stuff, any advice appreciated, thank you in advance, Fred! 

I've found out from the chassis plate that mine is an AC and 1975 build, if that helps......

Is the headlight chrome ring the same 7" as a Mini?

 Wiper arm and blade same as a Mini?

Any idea where to source a replacement front screen rubber?, On mine it's separated at the bottom and the screen has partly came out!!, The rubber is rock hard and I know I would break the screen if I tried to get it back in!

Tail lights, mine has the 'Portafold' type, but I can see from marks on the body it's bad the longer 'squared up' type (if you know what I mean)....

Does anyone know please a (Lucas?) part number of what else they were fitted to?

Pics added to show difference..... Many thanks.   Fred! 

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

Is the headlight chrome ring the same 7" as a Mini?

indeed the head lamps are just your standard 7 inch Lucas "Semi-sealed" items, if you end up replacing the whole lamp units, I would be quite interested in seeing what bulbs are fitted to the current units and if any writing on the bulbs is legible  

2 hours ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

 Wiper arm and blade same as a Mini?

I am not 100% sure on the wiper arm, but I think the wiper is? I know its a fairly standard 10 inch item anyhow  

2 hours ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

Any idea where to source a replacement front screen rubber?, On mine it's separated at the bottom and the screen has partly came out!!, The rubber is rock hard and I know I would break the screen if I tried to get it back in!

AFAIK the screen rubber seal is just your standard screen rubber nothing Model 70 specific about that, Woolies trim do a selection of screen rubbers, I am not 100% which profile the Model 70 uses etc, but hopefully theres enough left of yours that you can look at the cross section of it vs whats on the website and match it up, or someone more clued up on this

https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/c-122-screen-section

I believe they also do the correct type of floor rubber too 

https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/c-120-rubber-matting

2 hours ago, OhNoWhatHaveIDone said:

ail lights, mine has the 'Portafold' type, but I can see from marks on the body it's bad the longer 'squared up' type (if you know what I mean)....

Does anyone know please a (Lucas?) part number of what else they were fitted to?

Pics added to show difference..... Many thanks.   Fred! 

those Britax 9021/Rubbolite M88 aka "mini pickup" rear lights where fitted to Model 70 in laters years of services (sometime in the late 1980's or 1990's I suspect), so those rear lights are still correct for a Model 70 

the factory originals, have never actually ever been fully figured out what they are! I know they are made by CEP, but I have never been able to find a part number, Reliant Robin's and later Regals use them also, however they are quite scarse these days, so unless you really want the original factory types, I would just recommend the later replacement types, if you car already has them fitted

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232666691469

most of these britax rear lights you find on eBay are the 9020 type which have a clear section at the bottom thats meant  to be a number plate light, but the Model 70 uses the somewhat more uncommon 9021 which has that section in red, but the difference is just in the lens

so if your lenses are good and its just the units themselves that are duff, if you may be able to get some 9020 ones for a bit cheaper and swap the lenses over (thats what I did for REV, as typically the 9021's where out of stock when it became apparent she needed new rear light units!)

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

there is something that has been sitting on my mind for a few years now, and even more so with the soon to open Silvertown tunnel and tolling of the Blackwell tunnel and that is basically, what Taxation class do I put REV into, do I keep her in the Historic taxation class for ULEZ exemption, or put her in the Disabled taxation class so she is automatically exempt from all the road charging schemes, but risks possiably getting ULEZ charged when the disabled taxation exemption runs out in 2027?

the further problem with this is as I explain in my quoted self below, because REV is in inherently an Invalid Vehicle, a Model 70, she is inherently exempt from all these road charging schemes, but the problem is all the Automated systems when determining if a vehicle is exempt just look at a vehicles Taxation class, they dont look at the vehicles body type, so REV comes up as still having to pay for example if you put her in into the Pay a Dart charge thing online (which is doubly naughty, because even regular 3 wheelers like reliant are exempt from that)

it would be interesting to hear what peoples thoughts are on this

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

6 hours ago, yes oui si said:

Personally I'd just change it to historic, freeing up your disabled certificate to be used on something else. 

this is something I have been meaning to ask in my thread, as REV is currently in the Historic Vehicle taxation class, which gets her exempt from ULEZ etc, but despite the fact that she is a Model 70, which is a vehicle that is inherently exempt from road charging schemes like the Dartford crossing, the M6 toll road and so forth (ie because of what it is, an Invalid Vehicle, it is inherently exempt from those charges, regardless of what taxation class it is in)

for example here is the part of the Dartford crossing legislation that deals with exempt vehicles, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2249/schedule/3/paragraph/1/made

Quote

(2) a vehicle which is exempt from vehicle excise duty under—

(a)paragraph 18 or 19 (vehicles for use by or for purposes of certain disabled people); or
(b)paragraph 20 (vehicles used for carriage of disabled people by recognised bodies),

of Schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.

now if we look at Schedule 2 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/schedule/2

now explicitly Paragraph 18 

Quote

A vehicle (including a cycle with an attachment for propulsion by mechanical power) which—

(a)is adapted, and used or kept on a road, for an invalid, and

(b)does not exceed 508 kilograms in weight unladen,

is an exempt vehicle.

(Paragraph 19, is what handles regular motor cars being exempt from VED by way of the driver/owner being himself disabled)

but so far from what I can tell, none of the automatic/automated/computer systems seem to recognise Paragraph 18 properly, you go to "pay a dart charge" and put REV in there, and it thinks it needs to pay a regular car charge 

now these systems if a vehicle is in the Disabled taxation class will see that an automatically exempt it, but if a vehicle is not in the historic vehicle taxation class as I understand it, its not ULEZ exempt, (since there are 2 seperate historic ULEZ exemptions, theres a ULEZ exemption for all vehicles before 1973, regardless of what taxation class they are in, but the rolling 40 year one is for vehicles only in the historic taxation class, ie vehicles which are not used for hire or reward)

so I am not sure what to do LOL 

 

this has a bit more of a concern of mine, with the Silvertown tunnel and the tolling of the Blackwall tunnel, which are local crossings to me

 

[captain_70s]

Leave it as historic.

It seems like it's status as an Invalid Vehicle is essentially hinged on legislation which is essentially defunct and will just be a pain to try and justify.

[somewhatfoolish]

Seems easy enough, ULEZ exemption is a lot more useful than exemption from the crossing fees plus it's a reason* to own more shite which can be put in the disabled tax class. 

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Seems easy enough, ULEZ exemption is a lot more useful than exemption from the crossing fees plus it's a reason* to own more shite which can be put in the disabled tax class. 

well thats the other thing, because REV is an invalid vehicle, her default taxation class is the "DISABLED" taxation class, so in theory at least, I can chuck her back into it, and still have a my disabled taxation class for a motor vehicle available for me to use on a London Taxi or something such (in the same way mobility scooters go into the disabled taxation class, and you can own as many as those as you like)

funnily enough when I went to change her to Historic back in March 2020, the post office clerk was quite confused "but its already in a £NIL rate taxation class what do you want to change it to historic for!"  I just said "yeah I know, just please put it in the historic taxation class please" 

but your right im tempted to leave it historic for the ULEZ exemption since thats and every-day thing, tho im kinda tempted to see if I would get anywhere with TFL by explaining my issue by manually registering her as a historic vehicle despite being in the disabled taxation class (in the same way someone with a foreign registered vehicle can manually register it as historic with TFL)

53 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

Leave it as historic.

It seems like it's status as an Invalid Vehicle is essentially hinged on legislation which is essentially defunct and will just be a pain to try and justify.

funnily enough, for a long time the Gov.uk's website completely ignored invalid vehicles which where not Mobility scooters, but at the same time as the DVLA fucked up with the whole Invacare vs Invacar thing, when they added a bunch of mobility scooter makes to the coded database 

they did refresh their website, acknowledging those vehicles which are invalid vehicles but as they put it are "not in a class"

https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/classes

https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/driving-on-the-road

so I wouldn't call it "defunct" someone obviously woke up and realised Invalid vehicles which are not Mobility scooters are still a thing, but indeed it is something that has very much been forgotten about, and I know some people will say/use the excuse of "but the NHS got rid of them in 2003" completely ignoring the fact there where/are a number of privately owned machines out there (and the fact that the legislation that sets out the rules for these vehicles was first laid out with the Road Traffic Act n so forth in 1930, long before the NHS and their issued invalid vehicles where a thing 

its not the first time this sort of thing has happened, for example the DVLA has happily allowed people to rob invalid vehicles of their number plates, despite those which weigh less then 306kg, being a vehicle which does not require an MOT (the DVLA's own rules for being able to retain a number from a vehicle state that it must be of a type that requires an MOT, hence why ya never see someone rob the plate off a Tractor or a MIlk float)

I guess part of the reason I bring this up, it is of injustice in some regards, if we break their regulations, they will obviously hold you very accountable, ie you drive over the Dartford crossing without paying, they will hound your arse, but if you drive over the dartford crossing and wrongly get charged for it, I imagine you couldn't just ignore the charge and let them figure out "oh its an exempt vehicle" 

also this of course expands beyond Model 70's what if your an  gentleman of advance age with a Ford Cortina who lives near the Dartford crossing, what taxation class do you put it in Historic vehicle taxation class for ULEZ exemption, and get charged every time you want to go across the crossing, or do you use your Disabled taxation class allouance, put the Cortina in that, and get it Dart charge exempt but ULEZ fined? you cant put a car in 2 taxation classes at once! 

[plasticvandan]

Presumably if it was.not.classed historic,it would then need MOT and tax? Presume you already have a blue badge which would give you the parking etc exemptions,and historic are exempt from most other things. Still,three years without it I wouldn't worry that much.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

Presumably if it was.not.classed historic,it would then need MOT and tax? Presume you already have a blue badge which would give you the parking etc exemptions,and historic are exempt from most other things. Still,three years without it I wouldn't worry that much.

the historic vehicle taxation class and Historic Vehicle MOT exemption, are 2 separate things, lots of people think they are one and the same, but no they are separate, it just so happens they both happen at 40 years* each one has its own set of rules and criteria, for example a vehicle in the Historic Vehicle Taxation class cannot be used for hire or reward or  used commercially for a trade or business, but there is no such rule against that in the 40 year MOT exemption requirements 

so if I was to start a business selling over-priced coffee out the back of a 40 year old FX4, then I would still need to pay tax on it with it in the Private Light Goods Taxation class that it would normally fall under, but it would still be MOT exempt as its over 40 years old, however instead of selling coffee out of the back of the FX4 I then decide to install a great big V8 engine in it and use it for fucking with Audi's in the outside lane of the M25, then it would be eligible for historic vehicle tax since im no longer using it for hire or reward, but it would not be MOT exempt (since its been "substantially changed" according the eyes of the MOT rules) 

*even then the Historic Vehicle tax class and and the MOT exemption differ also, a 40 year old vehicle is only eligible for £NIL tax in April the year after it turns 40, where as a vehicle is MOT exempt the day it turns 40

so even if REV was no longer in the Historic Vehicle taxation class for whatever reason, she would still be MOT exempt because she is over 40 years old 

theres one thing I have always wondered about with the whole historic tax thing, is that, even before the Historic Vehicle taxation class was introduced in 1995, there was a concessionary half-rate given to Cars first used before 1947 and Motorcycles before 1933 IIRC, I have to wonder if that is still in place or has it been forgotten about?

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

Presume you already have a blue badge which would give you the parking etc exemptions,and historic are exempt from most other things. Still,three years without it I wouldn't worry that much.

indeed I do, which at least means I dont have to worry about the congestion charge   (vehicles in the Disabled taxation class are automatically exempt from it, but you can separately from that registered up to 2 vehicles under a blue badge, for an exemption also, tho it costs £10 for the initial exemption application, it wouldn't be TFL if they did not find a way to nickel and dime you LOL)

[D.E]

Newcastle:

[Christine]

You'll be best avoiding  the Dartford Crossing in it  , not because of Dart charge though . .. 

Are you still planning to drive it  to the Lightbulb Conference   if it comes back home in time ? 

[High Jetter]

53 minutes ago, Christine said:

Are you still planning to drive it  to the Lightbulb Conference   if it comes back home in time ? 

That would be a LUXury 🤣

[Christine]

What's the date code on the Revs  tyres ?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

You'll be best avoiding  the Dartford Crossing in it  , not because of Dart charge though . .. 

but how am I to do a complete loop of the M25 without crossing it tho?  (it really does bother my OCD as they say, that because of that crossing the M25 is not actually a completely circular motorway....)

[somewhatfoolish]

1 hour ago, D.E said:

Newcastle:

Big Vern looks like he's about to pull his shootah.

[beko1987]

7 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Big Vern looks like he's about to pull his shootah.

That's @warren t claim when he was a young cabbie in training 😂 Someone must have run off owing him the 9 shillings fare