invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Scruffy Bodger]

alright text message has been sent to the seller and PM sent to busmansholiday 

 

Screenshot 2019-03-06 at 09.32.19.png

 

hopefully iv not made a *complete* tit of myself

 

 

 

 

as for the local knuckle draggers (its amazing what vocabulary you learn off of here ), I was wondering, how effective would immobilising it be

 

something like disconnecting the battery and one of the spark plug wires, so if they manage to get inside and try and start it they wont get anything

 

(or i could just disconnect the engine earths but leave everything else hooked up so the dynastart unit just goes *clunk* but nothing actually happens?  )

 

I could also literally chain it to a lamp post through one of the chassis legs maybe, but i feel like that would almost be asking for attention

 

I think people worry too much about the whole security thing with cars that stand out in an odd sort of way. I've parked my kit car even with the roof off in a rough part of Kidderminster and in Tipton for extended periods of time. In Tipton I used to remove the rotor arm and arm the steering lock just in case someone took a fancy to it. Tipton and the surrounding areas must have been pretty much the car crime capital at the time, street racing around there was in full flow. Nobody ever touched it, the same couldn't be said for the £30 405 I was driving at the time. Parked in exactly the same spot they tried to pinch it one night by slide hammering the ignition, they were defeated by the steering lock, because I'd armed it. The worst I had with the kit car was finding half chip wrappers or pizza boxes in it if I'd parked it in a high street somewhere with the roof off. A well thought out, well hidden immobiliser switch in the locked engine bay* and a substantial steering lock of some description and chance it imo.

As for insurance, why can't your mum insure it if it's just sat, you couldn't drive it after all as that would be illegal without a license\/

 

Also what are the rates like for trikes? It is NOT a car and bike insurance is substantially cheaper than the absolutely horrendous rates young drivers are being forced to pay. 

[DodgeRover]

Try chucking it in on this page, hpi usually costs money

 

https://www.seat.co.uk/owners/diesel-engines/reg-number.html

[LightBulbFun]

Try chucking it in on this page, hpi usually costs money

 

https://www.seat.co.uk/owners/diesel-engines/reg-number.html

 

I came across that page while trying to find somewhere that would tell me the VIN number for free

 

for the whole Northern Ireland invacar thingy

 

but sadly it just says "You need to enter a valid Registration number" for any invacar registration I throw at it 

[SierraMikeHotel]

I'm totally in two minds about what advice I'd give to LBF if he asked (which he hasn't). I think the people advising caution are doing so for all the right reasons and with my sensible head on, they're not wrong.

 

However, LBF's enthusiasm is just fantastic and reminds me of my younger days chasing totally inappropriate old chod. How can I put a dampener on that?

 

I've bunged a small donation into the crowdfunder: if you decide against buying the car first and put the money into driving lessons/licence instead that would be absolutely fine by me.

[LightBulbFun]

I had noticed a couple people had thrown some money at the gofundme thingy, thank you very much to those that have done so, so far

[Eddie Honda]

Also what are the rates like for trikes? It is NOT a car and bike insurance is substantially cheaper than the absolutely horrendous rates young drivers are being forced to pay.

It's not a bike as far as insurance is concerned. It'll be specialist car brokers.

 

Back in the early 1990s I was getting stiffed more than a 1.6 Escrote for a Reliant Kitten. GRP and OMGFIRE! risk.

 

Most of the insurance bumming will be age which you can do SFA about. After that it'll be area.

[lanciamatt]

Right

Q231PVL has a chassis number of 87188 and according to hpi was scrapped in 2002

[lanciamatt]

Oh and original date of reg was 8/9/1967

[Cavcraft]

Not impossible to sort out but it being registered as scrap will mean more agro for you.

[LightBulbFun]

thank you very much

 

interestingly that looks like a Mk12s chassis number of all things! interesting how your date of reg is 8/9/1967 when on the DVLA it shows up as 1997

 

definitely not a Model 70 one AFAIK

 

 

ill run it by Stuart and see if he is able to make anything of it

 

BTW if you can, can you run SOI7570 and WOI654?  

[LightBulbFun]

Not impossible to sort out but it being registered as scrap will mean more agro for you.

 

well i dont think thats a Model 70 chassis number

 

so if I just ignore the whole Q plate thing, and just apply for the original V5 via its original chassis number, then I should be alright I think

 

 

interesting that it does show up as scrapped in 2002 however...

[egg]

That's a Mk12 identity, as you say - just 700 cars away from mine.

 

But I thought all of the MK12 went out of service in the mid-90s, so scrapped in 2002 is odd? By the way - this is exactly the sort of problem that might stop me getting a registration and make my efforts in vain.

 

Invacars. Bloody mystery really.

[sierraman]

Where abouts in S2 is it?

[LightBulbFun]

That's a Mk12 identity, as you say - just 700 cars away from mine.

 

But I thought all of the MK12 went out of service in the mid-90s, so scrapped in 2002 is odd? By the way - this is exactly the sort of problem that might stop me getting a registration and make my efforts in vain.

 

Invacars. Bloody mystery really.

 

I know right? LOL but its quite fascinating when the information that explains it all comes to light

 

id not be too worried if yours is marked as "scrapped" I believe both TWC and TPA where technically marked as scrapped as well

 

im still not 100% sure when the bulk of and the last of the mk12s/villiers machines where withdrawn from service, ill have to pitch that question to stuart at some point

[LightBulbFun]

Where abouts in S2 is it?

 

sadly not sure, the seller has not been very communicative...

[mrbenn]

That's strange. I thought cars disappeared from the database/tax checker when they were scrapped? Perhaps the scrappage marker has already been reversed?

[LightBulbFun]

That's strange. I thought cars disappeared from the database/tax checker when they were scrapped? Perhaps the scrappage marker has already been reversed?

 

I think they only vanish from the checker if its been issued a CoD (certificate of destruction) which is only a relatively recent thing AFAIK...

[mrbenn]

Ah, thanks for that.

[Yoss]

There's a lot of scaremongering going on here. I'm not saying insurance won't be a problem, and a lot of you know a lot more about it than me but Hackney isn't in a state of constant riot. Some of you seem to be suggesting it'll be aflame within days but if anything London has a higher proportion of old and unusual cars about than anywhere else. I know it looks odd but so do lots of old cars in their own way. There's a guy round Waterloo who parks a Citroen SM in the street, and how much is that worth? I know it has better security but if someone wants to torch it that makes no difference.

 

I've just googled E2 it's bordering Shoreditch and Hoxton and contains things like Columbia Road flower market and the V&A museum of childhood. It's practically Hipster Central and not downtown Aleppo as some of you seem to be suggesting.

[lanciamatt]

I'm not convinced the hpi is 100% right, every time I search anything to do with invacar it also comes back with info about a truck too. Also this one said ac electric too?

[busmansholiday]

Where abouts in S2 is it?

The seller has previously had a couple of items on classic cars, Google his phone number. There's a pic of the monkey bike and the Riley where the background shots look familiar to me but I just cannot work out where it is.

I'm hopeful he'll get back to LBF so as I / we could go and see it.

[DodgeRover]

That scrapped date is wierd, looking at the tax report I would say it was declared scrap May 2013 as the date is mid month and that's the only time it happens.

[LightBulbFun]

That scrapped date is wierd, looking at the tax report I would say it was declared scrap May 2013 as the date is mid month and that's the only time it happens.

 

oh thats a good spot!

 

i was thinking it was weird how it was "Scrapped" in 2002 but showing as untaxed in 2013...

 

but yeah didn't notice thats its mid month as well...

 

 

wonder what the hells gone on LOL

[mrbenn]

That scrapped date is wierd, looking at the tax report I would say it was declared scrap May 2013 as the date is mid month and that's the only time it happens.

 

If a car changes hands then it shows as untaxed from that point unless the new owner taxed or sorns it, doesn't it?

[garbaldy]

That scrapped date is wierd, looking at the tax report I would say it was declared scrap May 2013 as the date is mid month and that's the only time it happens.

I've also noticed tax due dates mid month and last time I noticed that it was when I had sold a car to a trader.

 

Beaten to it by Mr benn

[sierraman]

Looks like could be off City Rd going on the houses in the background.

[Christine]

When i  googled Maps , Satellite Image   , City Road  Sheffield , it shows  the Dead Centre  of Sheffield..

[busmansholiday]

When i googled Maps , Satellite Image , City Road Sheffield , it shows the Dead Centre of Sheffield..

My grandfather's ashes are scattered there (there's a crem / cemetery on City Road for those that don't understand).

[Zelandeth]

All right... here's my current thoughts on this whole situation LBF. You know me well enough to know that I say what I think so nothing is a dig at you or anything. Likewise to anyone else, we're good mates so don't worry.

 

I'd say follow this to its natural conclusion. Don't be afraid to admit that that conclusion may be passing on the sale* on this occasion though.

 

In the short term, I'd not worry too massively about long term storage. Once we get it "into the fold" so to speak, between us I'm sure we can find somewhere to keep a tiny little three wheeler safe until you're ready for it. Obviously keep looking into it, but don't loose heart if nothing is sorted when it turns out that you do get the car.

 

I'd not worry too much if this one doesn't turn out to "be the one" as yes, prices are on the up, but they're not going to go stratospheric overnight. Ones in really good order, yes...those are going to go for silly money, but project cars aren't going to end up priced like classic Minis in the next year. You're in the right crowd to see them when they do pop up for sale now.

 

Now let's assume that the seller decides he wants three grand for it, someone turns up and drives off with it...whatever. If you don't get this one, here's what I think I'd be looking at.

 

Yes, you want a Model 70. That's a target for you...however let's get a few things in there as steps between here and there.

 

Firstly - you can't yet drive.

- I reckon we need to get you some lessons (yes, I know - we'll need to look into that soon, I know you're waiting for me) and then get you a shot of one on a private road somewhere. I've driven a lot of stuff, including buses with cable brakes and pedals in the wrong order...and even I was flailing around for the first half mile in it... they're a busy old thing to drive.

 

You've no experience swinging spanners.

- The Invacar in many ways isn't actually too difficult to work on. It does however suffer from the highly annoying phenomenon of being a car on which 50% of the fasteners are metric, 49% Imperial and 1% some proprietary nonsense nobody has ever seen before. So you're going to need two sets of spanners, two socket sets...you get the idea. More money you need to spend. It's also never going to show up on parts list - so you'll need to reverse engineer things to figure out what bits you're actually trying to buy when you're after spares.

 

Insurance is going to be an absolute pain in the tail. It just is. If Hagerty didn't know what an Invacar was courtesy of them covering TWC I suspect I'd have been in for a bigger battle there. Yes I'm paying £52 a year on TP (it's the Lada that's £275), but that's pleasure use only and stored in a secure garage which is also boxed in by an immobiliser equipped car. They do require me to have one car on a normal policy (Xantia), and when at home the car had a curfew - if at my home address it has to be off the street between 2200 and 0700. Times might be slightly out..

But you get the idea.

 

Here's what I'd be looking at if I was you. Start with something a bit more approachable. Something which will be far more suited to the needs of someone who's learning what is needed in both driving and maintaining a classic car, for which spares are more readily available than many moderns, for which thanks to a massive owner's club you're likely to have a hope in Hell of insuring, and something you're unlikely to lose money on.

 

My suggestion? Morris Minor.

 

Yes tidy ones are decent coin now, but serviceable ones still seem to turn up at sensible money. They're nice easy cars to drive - only real area they struggle is on fast roads, but if you're mostly trundling around London they'll be right at home. They're easy to work on and their popularity means that there are good how to guides for most tasks. Should be far easier to secure one to a reasonable standard than an Invacar. Let's not forget, even with the doors locked, the pillars and doors have so much flex in them that you can pop them open with a beefy screwdriver. That's how I got the offside door on TP open when the locks were all totally seized. Plus you can't really use any conventional security aids on an Invacar due to the control layout.

 

I'd then be planning on then aiming to get an Invacar in a year or three when you should be further along the lines of figuring out where you'd put it - and whether you actually like the whole classic car ownership thing! You might find that given your resources and physical challenges that it's just more stress than it's worth. Obviously there are barriers to it at the moment but I'm sure we could get you some time "behind the wheel" of mine in the future, lack of drivers going to shows is more of a challenge for me now my husband can't drive after his stroke...

 

So long as you don't do something daft to it, it's really unlikely you'll struggle to move a Minor on.

 

I've always fancied a Minor to be honest...just never come across one when I've had space for one!

 

This is just what's going through my head on the matter, take it or leave it.

 

As stated before, I'm absolutely up for going and collecting it (sure we can arrange something regarding costs if it worked out, you know I'm not going to get in the way!), just a six hour round trip is a bit far for a "take a look at it" trip.

[LightBulbFun]

iv been wondering what your thoughts are on the whole subject, I very much appreciate your write up on it all

 

the following response is partly to zel but mostly to the general crowd in hope to clear somethings up

 

first I figured id best clear something up just for all involved, im not *fixated* on THIS specific Model 70 per-say, if the seller turns around and says its £2K Firm or GTFO, well I cant afford that so id have to pass, just like I had to pass on ATW722L because that was £5K, I fully understand that (and I know £2K is taking the piss a bit), or if its terminally rotten then ill know to pass, if it turns out this is not the right one to go for then I know to pass

 

what I am "protesting" if thats the right word?, so to speak is how many people seem to tell me to just pass on it completely and "forgot about the whole idea", (and without even seeing if the seller will do £800 or not, or seeing the condition its in...) I do understand that more may show up, but at the same time im well aware of their scarcity, so I feel like I cant just afford to dismiss what I come across with just a cursory glance

 

and as such im also particularly interested in "having a go/look" at this one because from what vague info I have, it sounds like it might actually be in half decent shape, matching my criteria of "decent body and oily bits" which is not the case on a lot out there

 

I do agree that I need and would love to get some driving and spanner experience

 

a Morris minor is a good shout, and they are something I do like (theres even 2 of I know local to here, a Grey saloon and a Green Woody which AFAIK have not been burnt out or been tipped onto their side  )

 

however a couple problem I have with them is

 

iv put in a LOT of effort etc into getting where I have managed to get now with the whole setup, and I will admit, id like to keep my first car, subsequent cars may come and go, but my first car is something id like to hang onto

 

and getting a car in my situation if going to be a lot of effort blood sweat and tears regardless of what it is, so I want to get something im properly enthusiastic about

 

and sadly not only will a Morris minor cost quite a bit more to purchase, I know minors like to rust as a hobby, and im not sure i could afford to have it patched up every now and then etc

 

(and as for invacar parts, well luckily a lot of the hard work in figuring out where everything came from has already been done )

 

I know classic car ownership is going to be very stressful for me and my back, and I would normally say its more trouble then its worth

 

 

But God damn it my life has already taken away so many things from me that a "normal" person would have (like the ability to leave the damn house when they want to!) and it has been such an utter cluster fuck.

 

 

that ill be dammed if I let life take this away from me, the invacar thing one of the few things in life that I feel like I still have a fighting chance at if you get me *shakes fist angrily at life* (and this is basically what everything boils down too)

 

(the invacar also comes with the very nice probable "side benefit" so to speak of giving me a chance at freedom once more that i lost when I face planted that road and did my back in)

 

 

(I also hope this goes to show to people when I say "I appreciate what Zel has done for me" just how much I really do mean that, and how much I value Zel as a friend, a Like minded person who is actually somewhat local to me and has been very kind to me and has been there for me in times of need and let me visit and have a good time. hopefully that does not sound too weird *nervous laugh* )