invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[plasticvandan]

Much more likely to be turned on it's side to be honest

[beko1987]

I'd keep pally with the owner of the rover and maybe the other vehicles too. 

Partly so 1 - when Rev joins the fold they don't take a dislike to it/think it's abandoned etc. I guess down there though you could drive it across half a space like a smart car? 

Also 2 you can all keep an eye on each others vehicles. I count myself very lucky where I live, it's one of the reasons I'm clinging on financially 😂 All allocated parking in dead end roads but because we all get on so well it's not a problem! If I come home and find it all blocked it's much nicer when its' just Lenny unloading his van/Phil unpacking his shopping' rather than some unknown wanker in my space. When we had pikey trouble a few years ago and we watched someone try the door of someone we knew we had him rung within 20 seconds and Amy bellowing out the window before that and we all went out with torches 👌 Safety in numbers, especially in London! 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, beko1987 said:

I'd keep pally with the owner of the rover and maybe the other vehicles too. 

Partly so 1 - when Rev joins the fold they don't take a dislike to it/think it's abandoned etc. I guess down there though you could drive it across half a space like a smart car? 

Also 2 you can all keep an eye on each others vehicles. I count myself very lucky where I live, it's one of the reasons I'm clinging on financially 😂 All allocated parking in dead end roads but because we all get on so well it's not a problem! If I come home and find it all blocked it's much nicer when its' just Lenny unloading his van/Phil unpacking his shopping' rather than some unknown wanker in my space. When we had pikey trouble a few years ago and we watched someone try the door of someone we knew we had him rung within 20 seconds and any bellowing out the window before that and we all went out with torches 👌 Safety in numbers, especially in London! 

oh yeah I have known the Wife of the Rover Owner ,for as long as I have been alive/she knows well who I am, (and I have had a couple conversions with the husband as well, but the wife is the one who would sit outside on her chair and say hello as we where going to or coming from school etc)  we are some of the oldest/longest serving tenants in this block, its a council estate so most residents come and go on a weekly basis almost, but there are I think 3 of us, that have been here for well over 20 years now, its funny tho on the subject of vehicles of the block, theres a Volvo 940 that lives here also, and the Wife and Husband of the Rover, thought that is what I bought!, they did not realise REV was mine at first the thought the Volvo was mine, I put that down to the wife being Scottish, its only natural to assume Volvo must be with a like minded individual/a shitter  but they know REV is mine, and that I do specifically keep an eye on it/their Rover as well and is why I parked it behind the Rover etc,  REV was home between the 5th of November 2021-1st February 2022, so they are familiar with it/know what the deal is, they actually asked me where it had gone when she did go, so I explained she was off to get some TLC etc and, I remember at one point I was working on REV when the husband was coming home with the wife and needed to do something with the Rover and he sees me working on REV and asks his wife "does he have tools?" at which point she peers into REV's cabin where I had my Metrinch set laid out, and she responds "yeah he has tools!" that tickled me!  at which point we got chatting and he fired up the Rover for me, Mmmm V8  

 

[beko1987]

That's awesome, and exactly what you want! Who knows one day someone might move in who likes twirling a spanner and is friendly and suddenly you've got yourself a friendly slave 😂

Must have helped 6 or 7 neighbors out with cars in the past, and it's been worth it when I've had zero complaints, even cheery/sympathetic chats when braying the shite out of something important on a quiet Saturday, bits of car laying about. Next door helped me bleed brakes once too and he's a clueless but friendly mk6 fiesta owning chap

[MikeR]

Projector bulbs ?  ,one was 750 watts !! 

[beko1987]

Well that was fun! The instant I saw this error message after throwing REV's at my previous workflow that I tested with modern cars I realised what I was up against...

None of the VRM's have any attributes for MOT Expiry Date it seems, would that be correct? (Work hat on here, I'm going to ask a few data validation questions throughout to check it's just shit data and not my workflow 😂)

I then discovered that the API service only likes 40odd records at a time, so I split it up and ran it 3 times

I could probably set Alteryx up to send the data through in batches then group it together at the end, maybe next time. I could then combine my 3 files and confirm that 101 reg no's went in and 101 came out

I managed to get both a V5 issue and last taxed calculation in, displayed in both days and years (it calculates by day, then /365 for the year) and it gives some cool data!

In terms of gaps, we have 2 kinds! 1 is no V5 record but details on tax and everything else, then others plain not found (I've named these No Record Found so you can filter them off.)

Please can you verify REV451R's details are correct? It's by far the most updated record.

Why are none of the makes recorded as Invacare? As much as I could change it to be funny I thought they'd marked them as that or has that been fixed? Or am I pulling from a different data table? (It'll be this one https://developer-portal.driver-vehicle-licensing.api.gov.uk/availableapis.html)

Best PM me your email and I'll send you the spreadsheet, did you want me to save it in open office format for you if you're using Libre/Open office?

I haven't hit any limit yet, I guess I have 62 tries at pulling data a month set, I may have sent another request this afternoon with some vague but technically in the spirit of things detaild ans set to 200 a month... when I can get Alteryx to batch up thousands of records and punch it through to give the above spreadsheet output we'll be laughing!

 

[egg]

Well as you're in trendy (20 years ago) East London, I reckon the Nissan post-it notes are an avant garde art project reflecting on 'the post-modern urban experience' or some such thing 😆

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, beko1987 said:

Well that was fun! The instant I saw this error message after throwing REV's at my previous workflow that I tested with modern cars I realised what I was up against...

None of the VRM's have any attributes for MOT Expiry Date it seems, would that be correct? (Work hat on here, I'm going to ask a few data validation questions throughout to check it's just shit data and not my workflow 😂)

I then discovered that the API service only likes 40odd records at a time, so I split it up and ran it 3 times

I could probably set Alteryx up to send the data through in batches then group it together at the end, maybe next time. I could then combine my 3 files and confirm that 101 reg no's went in and 101 came out

I managed to get both a V5 issue and last taxed calculation in, displayed in both days and years (it calculates by day, then /365 for the year) and it gives some cool data!

In terms of gaps, we have 2 kinds! 1 is no V5 record but details on tax and everything else, then others plain not found (I've named these No Record Found so you can filter them off.)

Please can you verify REV451R's details are correct? It's by far the most updated record.

Why are none of the makes recorded as Invacare? As much as I could change it to be funny I thought they'd marked them as that or has that been fixed? Or am I pulling from a different data table? (It'll be this one https://developer-portal.driver-vehicle-licensing.api.gov.uk/availableapis.html)

Best PM me your email and I'll send you the spreadsheet, did you want me to save it in open office format for you if you're using Libre/Open office?

I haven't hit any limit yet, I guess I have 62 tries at pulling data a month set, I may have sent another request this afternoon with some vague but technically in the spirit of things detaild ans set to 200 a month... when I can get Alteryx to batch up thousands of records and punch it through to give the above spreadsheet output we'll be laughing!

 

Oooh thats very interesting thats exactly the sort of stuff I like to see   REV's data looks good, indeed no MOT details is to be expected, MOT's where only recorded online starting in 2005, so anything that came off the road before then wont have any MOT data, V5's at the start where not dated/did not have a date of issue recorded, it was only starting in about 1979 where V5's dated, so anything with a V5 that was issued between the Start V5 scheme (1st October 1974) and about 1979 will have no date for recorded for last V5 issued, and the records where no result is returned at all (ie REV452R) are for vehicles that did not survive past 1983, and where archived off the system (or the registration mark as never issued/assigned for one reason or another, or it has a CoD against it/is voided for some reason)

 

as for the Invacare thing thats because, the data that you get presented from the DVLA like this is technically cached, it only refreshes when something causes the record to be refreshed/directly queried , for example most recently the Invacar Model 70 VJN951S came to light and I have been helping the owner with that and he has sent off a V62 to get its logbook 

so here is a screenshot of the vehicle record as it stood before the V62 application

and then just a couple weeks later, after the application has arrived and someone at the DVLA has looked at the vehicle record to start processing it, as you can see its refreshed, and pinged to "INVACARE" because as previously explained they fucked up the lookup table! (so when the Make code for INVACAR, which is ZA is quired against the lookup table it incorrectly returns INVACARE instead)

but if you look up say VJN950S, which was looked at so to speak probably in 1998 when the current DVLA system was implemented, you can see it still says "INVACAR" because it was last refreshed before they fucked up the lookup table, but if someone was to apply for it logbook or tax it etc, it would suddenly ping wrong if that makes sense

try look up the VJN898S-VJN997S (100 cars) block, there are a few survivors in there which should show up as INVACARE (sadly) on your end because AFAIK the API your using uses the same lookup table that all of the DVLA's systems use

 

 

the only reason REV does not show up as INVACARE is because well she did, I wrote a letter to the DVLA about it, they "fixed" the issue, but not really, they removed REV from the coded system and someone manually typed in "INVACAR" instead, basically they put body filler of the rust so it looks good on the outside but its still rotten underneath

they never actually fixed the lookup table itself, as you can see most recently with VJN951S it still very much is an issue! (and again they never did actually respond to my email all I got was another V5 and not even a covering letter on that, I only know what happened because I know how the system works, and how to check if a vehicle is or is not on the coded system etc)

[beko1987]

Ah I see. I'll run the S's tomorrow when I log on and see what comes back! I like to validate data, usually I make it myself from source so can do it as I go along, but it's nice to pick apart other people's 😅

Thought of a way to automate the creation of the api string too I want to try, saves a few seconds of concatenation in Excel. Not logging back on now though 

@egg do you have a list of mondeo number plates you'd like some data for whilst I'm running things? Or do you have your own ways? 

[egg]

39 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

@egg do you have a list of mondeo number plates you'd like some data for whilst I'm running things? Or do you have your own ways? 

I love Mondeo data, I eat Mondeo data for breakfast - so yes please. Can I send them to you? 

[LightBulbFun]

well this has already proved to be quite interesting, just got the full dataset from @beko1987 and theres a few interesting details (interesting in the sense of your a data nerd/enthusiast  ) for example to to see that 13 REV's did not make it beyond 1983, but also rather interestingly REV418R, despite being long since untaxed etc with a V5 last issued when it was made or sometime in the 1970's,  shows up as "INVACARE" so that would indicate that for one reason or another someone at the DVLA has had cause to look at its record sometime since Mid 2023 (which is when this Invacare cockup happened) either someones in the process of applying for its logbook, or some DVLA clerk has had a reason to look at its record (maybe to do with my REV, they wanted to look at another REV randomly?) or maybe someones found its old V5 in a set of draws from their great grandad or something and sent it into the DVLA to say "yeah this is long gone" and its caused the record to refresh that way because someone at the DVLA has marked it keeperless? 

again remember that an Invacar only pings to "INVACARE" if there is something that pokes the record if that makes sense, a keeper change, the vehicle being taxed or SORNed, etc

[beko1987]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

I love Mondeo data, I eat Mondeo data for breakfast - so yes please. Can I send them to you? 

Please do! Just send me the raw reg numbers and I'll do you a clone of the above (with the mot info that these modern cars will probably have!). Can match back onto your existing data by despaced reg 👌

Bung me an email too and I'll send you an excel once created tomorrow morning

[beko1987]

Wouldn't it be funny if my HTTP Post request for every VRM record caused it to re-cache each record and change every vehicle in existence to Invacare 😂😈

 

Ah yes, lots more activity in the VJN range!

Including one that's had a V5 and might one day see tax? Seems like a better surviving batch of cars than the R reg ones given how many have seen tax within the last 20 years! Emailing it over now

This invacar just made me realise how old I am, it had it's last V5 less than a month before I was born

VJN969S

BLUE

1987-08-20

-13438

-37

[Mr Pastry]

Hmm.  I don't quite see the point of all this and it leaves me absolutely cold, but each to their own.  However - seriously- 

I take it that what is being done is multiple enquiries to the DVLA? 

I assume also that all this information is legitimately available to the public?

Does it not occur to you that DVLA might notice all this unusual activity and wonder what you are up to?

I am genuinely concerned that it may be seen as abuse of the service, or attempts to get non-public information.  I don't much care if you guys get arrested over it, but I do care that access might be restricted as a result.   

We are fortunate in this country that we can get any of this information so easily,  and it is useful to car enthusiasts and historians, so it would be a pity if that were to change.   They could pull the plug just like that if they wanted to.

Just saying.

 

 

 

[beko1987]

7 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Hmm.  I don't quite see the point of all this and it leaves me absolutely cold, but each to their own.  However - seriously- 

I take it that what is being done is multiple enquiries to the DVLA? 

I assume also that all this information is legitimately available to the public?

Does it not occur to you that DVLA might notice all this unusual activity and wonder what you are up to?

I am genuinely concerned that it may be seen as abuse of the service, or attempts to get non-public information.  I don't much care if you guys get arrested over it, but I do care that access might be restricted as a result.   

We are fortunate in this country that we can get any of this information so easily,  and it is useful to car enthusiasts and historians, so it would be a pity if that were to change.   They could pull the plug just like that if they wanted to.

Just saying.

 

 

 

There's little point to it, you're correct there! But I like playing with data, so it interests me in that regard!

I'm using publically available API keys to a public table (the same data table the basic MOT check shows and any car parts website) so I'm happy with that bit. I've not had it long so don't know how the limits work but I've made 8 accesses to the API so far, with 220ish Payloads within. I have 62 accesses a month with my current API key (which I made for something else, see the grin thread) but no limit on the data extracted (bar my method only sending 40 requests through at a time)

I might get told off for it, if so I doubt it'll be more than "piss off, we've revoked your API key" and that'll be that, was fun whilst it lasted

Then it's downloaded as a single cell blob of text with seperations. I cache this when it's first downloaded so I can re-run my workflow as many times as needed but without doing nay more requests. Everything past the single blob of data is my own doing, the pretty spreadsheet is just how I've presented the data with some text to columns, 2 regex tools, date calculations, various data cleansing and both row to columns and columns to row action. That's the bit that excites me!

Plus (in my defence m'lud) I'm posting it all here in the open so if it does get serious I'll have a slight defence hopefully. I'm just helping someone I know be geeky with car data for his own personal use and save hours of individually typing each reg into another checker site 🤷‍♀️ I'm sure there's API keys that pull tens of thousands of requests a month. I posted the link to the API's and their documentation above too a few posts back

[beko1987]

The 500 accesses per month key I requested yesterday just came through too... I was very vague on that form and just put Vehicle Enquiries as the reason so I'm calling that covered enough! Switched my workflow over to using that, will keep my key for what I intended it for.

Got to do at least 1 request every 90 days though or it gets revoked...

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Hmm.  I don't quite see the point of all this and it leaves me absolutely cold, but each to their own.  However - seriously- 

I take it that what is being done is multiple enquiries to the DVLA? 

I assume also that all this information is legitimately available to the public?

Does it not occur to you that DVLA might notice all this unusual activity and wonder what you are up to?

I am genuinely concerned that it may be seen as abuse of the service, or attempts to get non-public information.  I don't much care if you guys get arrested over it, but I do care that access might be restricted as a result.   

We are fortunate in this country that we can get any of this information so easily,  and it is useful to car enthusiasts and historians, so it would be a pity if that were to change.   They could pull the plug just like that if they wanted to.

Just saying.

 

 

 

its a valid concern but I would not worry about it here, the data that @beko1987 is pulling is the same as what the 1st party checker gives us, its nothing more then that and to that end he is using an officially provided DVLA API for it, if say you wanted to write an iPhone app that people can look up cars with, the DVLA have helpfully given us an API by which one can use in such an application, so its nothing thats not public accessibly or that the DVLA dont want us doing, otherwise they would not give us an API for doing this sort of thing with  

its no different to for example how when I was finding Invacar blocks I would occasionally manually run all 100 of em through https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ except Beko has managed to automate it so I dont have to sit there wearing my keyboard out, and then he has the skills to take the data and tubulate it into a nice spread sheet for us to oggle at, rather then just me posting individual DVLA screenshots  

[beko1987]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

 posting individual DVLA screenshots  

Check your emails, I've made everyone's day! With a bit of tweaking each reg number record is now in a nicer format for pasting

Registration	Name	Value
REV412R	Colour	BLUE
	dateOfLastV5CIssued	1986-11-11
	DaysSinceLastV5	-13720
	YearsSinceLastV5	-37.589041
	engineCapacity	493
	fuelType	PETROL
	make	INVACAR
	markedForExport	false
	monthOfFirstRegistration	1976-10
	motStatus	No results returned
	taxDueDate	1989-11-01
	DaysSinceLastTax	-12634
	YearsSinceLastTax	-34.613699
	taxStatus	Untaxed
	wheelplan	3 WHEEL
	yearOfManufacture	1976

(you might want to delete each duplicate reg no from every line as I did there, no way to avoid that sadly but also means each line can be used in isolation with a nice pivot table...)

 

[beko1987]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

its a valid concern but I would not worry about it here, the data that @beko1987 is pulling is the same as what the 1st party checker gives us, its nothing more then that and to that end he is using an officially provided DVLA API for it, if say you wanted to write an iPhone app that people can look up cars with, the DVLA have helpfully given us an API by which one can use in such an application, so its nothing thats not public accessibly or that the DVLA dont want us doing, otherwise they would not give us an API for doing this sort of thing with  

its no different to for example how when I was finding Invacar blocks I would occasionally manually run all 100 of em through https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ except Beko has managed to automate it so I dont have to sit there wearing my keyboard out, and then he has the skills to take the data and tubulate it into a nice spread sheet for us to oggle at, rather then just me posting individual DVLA screenshots  

I found this, we're 1000% fine. Even with points 1 2 and 3, point 3 I'm technically turning the data into a different dataset so even more fine! And I've referenced where it's coming from here in public. And there is no warranty with the data (from me or doovla 😅) 

Would be in the dvla's best interest to employ Des on a good salary and give him dB access and have him tidy it) 😅 I can't begin to imagine how scarily crap their data is deep down 

[beko1987]

I've made the forum viewer unhappy...

[brummiejon]

I've been rewiring my Argson and rebuilding the broken hi/low switch.... found what looks to be factory made splice in the power train.... Do you think this splicing was common practice or a later bodge?

 

[LightBulbFun]

16 hours ago, brummiejon said:

I've been rewiring my Argson and rebuilding the broken hi/low switch.... found what looks to be factory made splice in the power train.... Do you think this splicing was common practice or a later bodge?

 

interesting! one thing about Flo is that she is quite a late Argson non-deluxe, by 1953 the Argson Deluxe was already well in production for a good couple years and being supplied to even the ministry by that point, so Flo is a bit of an outlier in that regard, her original owner must of been of an Autoshite persuasion, specifically going out of her way to order an Argson non-deluxe with the older/simpler front fork setup and control system,   I have to wonder if the splicing is anything to do with that since the non-deluxe and Deluxe do have different wiring setups

[brummiejon]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting! one thing about Flo is that she is quite a late Argson non-deluxe, by 1953 the Argson Deluxe was already well in production for a good couple years and being supplied to even the ministry by that point, so Flo is a bit of an outlier in that regard, her original owner must of been of an Autoshite persuasion, specifically going out of her way to order an Argson non-deluxe with the older/simpler front fork setup and control system,   I have to wonder if the splicing is anything to do with that since the non-deluxe and Deluxe do have different wiring setups

That does make sense. girder forks are 30s technology 

[brummiejon]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting! one thing about Flo is that she is quite a late Argson non-deluxe, by 1953 the Argson Deluxe was already well in production for a good couple years and being supplied to even the ministry by that point, so Flo is a bit of an outlier in that regard, her original owner must of been of an Autoshite persuasion, specifically going out of her way to order an Argson non-deluxe with the older/simpler front fork setup and control system,   I have to wonder if the splicing is anything to do with that since the non-deluxe and Deluxe do have different wiring setups

Her original owner Florence Day had an OBE for her services in the 1st world war.. Her husband died in Flanders and the Day family had significant influence in Pembrokeshire....

[LightBulbFun]

On 06/06/2024 at 21:47, brummiejon said:

That does make sense. girder forks are 30s technology 

heres a 1953 Argson Deluxe

and heres Flo, note the difference in control layout and front forks  

and heres a Argson Deluxe of Ministry issue, from 1951

so you can see what I mean about Flo being quite interesting in that regard of being quite late for a non-deluxe 

 

as a fun aside PPF291, lasted 34 years in Ministry service  

it was quite surreal for me when I found that photo, because long before i knew of the photo I did know of its existence through my DVLA bashing, so to stumble across the photo was quite surreal, its like looking up people in the phonebook from 50 years ago and then by pure chance randomly finding some pictures of them elsewhere, what are the chances of that! (and a similar thing for TPK353, I knew it had existed at some point, but I never realised it survived until I found that photo ) 

[Mike D]

[Snake Charmer]

4 hours ago, Mike D said:

Reminds me of the Monty Python killer cars sketch. 

[Saabnut]

A couple of photos for you to add to your collection, never before seen on the net.

Sent to me in France titled a grand day out!

[beko1987]

49 minutes ago, Saabnut said:

A couple of photos for you to add to your collection, never before seen on the net.

Sent to me in France titled a grand day out!

Gah what grim and desolate scenes these old photos portray... 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Saabnut said:

A couple of photos for you to add to your collection, never before seen on the net.

Sent to me in France titled a grand day out!

Oh Awesome! My brother was just asking me today how REV was doing and I was explaining how Duncan was conducting milage accumulation while you where away in france, to make sure all is well (ya know since you had the suddenly realisation of "oh shit its actually road worthy, better retreat far far away before Duncan actually makes me drive it!"  ) now I have got some handy photos  

I am kinda wishing I had installed a hidden camera somewhere now, both to see Duncans reactions to just driving her for the first time, but also to see how quickly he gets fed up with being inundated with questions from the public about it!, an Invacar is much like a DeLorean in that regard, complete with funky doors! so I hope he is mentally prepared for that!

but on a more serious note, it genuinely is awesome to see REV out and about and I hope Duncan is getting the hang of things and starting to enjoy himself pottering about in REV