invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[High Jetter]

I never knew Isettas were built in Brighton. Interesting question whether their parts floated in to Shoreham, seems likely.

[DSdriver]

In the picture of the Trojan it only seems to have two pedals, was it single geared?

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Amishtat said:

shares a registration series with a block of Invacar Mk12's BOO601F-BOO700F  

the whole registration series is also notable in that for some reason it was issued out of order,

registration series's are normally issued in alphabetical order, but BOO-F for some unknown reason was issued between AVW-F and AVX-G

I do wonder why it was issued out of order, a clerical error perhaps, did someone get confused because it was right at/just before the suffix change? 

[martc]

6 hours ago, DSdriver said:

In the picture of the Trojan it only seems to have two pedals, was it single geared?

Here's a clearer picture, you can see it has the full compliment of pedals. They were fitted with Heinkels own 198cc 4 stroke single cylinder engine; they had a 4 speed gearbox and a reverse gear which could be blanked off for those  driving with a motorbike licence

A (weak) connection with Isetta - the ill fated Dundalk Engineering in Ireland originally repaired/rebuilt railway engines and had to branch out to attempt car production when the railway work started to dry up.

7 hours ago, High Jetter said:

I never knew Isettas were built in Brighton. Interesting question whether their parts floated in to Shoreham, seems likely.

Here's a lot of info about Isetta production - http://www.isetta.org.uk/page16.html

quote -

The Brighton goods depot accumulates during the week a trainload of parts sufficient for 250 complete Isettas; engines, transmissions and body panels from Germany; electrical gear, brakes, tyres, suspension and other parts from the Midlands; small metal components from Shoreham and other local sources.

http://www.isetta.org.uk/page16.html

[egg]

I'm sure you've seen this video?  But just in case.

https://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-18101976-invalid-carriages

this archive appears to have other invalid car material, but not online: https://www.macearchive.org/search?for=invalid&from=&to=

 

[egg]

More

https://www.macearchive.org/films/midland-montage-11011962-here-and-there

And

https://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-30091977-invalid-car-protest

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, martc said:

Here's a lot of info about Isetta production - http://www.isetta.org.uk/page16.html

Thanks, had already found that. Victoria Road Portslade has several new car dealerships, I'd like to know where that 2nd factory was. And now this thread can return to it's usual topic...

[Mrs6C]

Amazing, isn't it, how some rather obscure designs of strangely-bodied, unconventionally accessible three wheelers with very limited seating arrangements and questionable safety credentials became 'cool' cars worth £££s and others didn't..

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, egg said:

More

https://www.macearchive.org/films/midland-montage-11011962-here-and-there

Bloody hell! I had seen the other ones you had linked and thought I had scoped out all the invalid car content from the website

but clearly not, thats an Invacar Mk11! very few detailed pictures like that even exist of one 

it also answers the question I had here, on production dates, as xxxSVW was issued starting Jan 1960, so tells me the April 1959 production end date I have must be for the Invacar Mk10A, and it also tells me that Invacar Mk11 production continued right until Mk12 was introduced with no gap in between, does make me wonder when exactly the Mk12 was introduced in 1960

On 09/09/2020 at 13:05, LightBulbFun said:

check out this neat shot of a colour street scene featuring an Invacar Mk10A or Mk11  

(I know its not Mk10, so it must be a 10A or 11 but I have not seen a 10A or 11 from the rear and im not 100% sure on the production dates of the 10A or 11 sadly I have a date of April 1959, but I dont know if thats when the 10A was discontinued and the 11 introduced until the Mk12 was introduced in 1960, or if April 1959 is when the Mk11 ended production and Invacar geared up then released the Mk12 in 1960?)

https://flic.kr/p/2jDoRGN

 

this also tells me then that 338NPU is an Invacar Mk10A, and not an Invacar Mk11

 

and for comparison sake here is the front of an Invacar Mk10

and an Invacar Mk10A

[dollywobbler]

Sounds fun. Maybe we should try to recreate that when times allow!

[Mrs6C]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

and for comparison sake here is the front of an Invacar Mk10

Interesting! In Stuart's book 'An Introduction to the British Invalid Carriage', the Mk10 is illustrated by an 'artist's impression' of one rather than a photograph. Not sure if that was because the artist's impression was more noteworthy (being used in an advertisement for tyre valves) or if he didn't have any suitable photos of a Mk10 (or a 10A) at the time to publish.

He missed out the Mk11 entirely, which is a shame.

[LightBulbFun]

52 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Interesting! In Stuart's book 'An Introduction to the British Invalid Carriage', the Mk10 is illustrated by an 'artist's impression' of one rather than a photograph. Not sure if that was because the artist's impression was more noteworthy (being used in an advertisement for tyre valves) or if he didn't have any suitable photos of a Mk10 (or a 10A) at the time to publish.

He missed out the Mk11 entirely, which is a shame.

I think it was included because it was more noteworthy, but you are right in that pictures of the Invacar Mk10/10A/11 are very rare! and outside of stills taken from the British pathe videos was not actually aware of any publicly until I came across the coloured one above about a year ago now 

On 02/05/2019 at 00:33, LightBulbFun said:

so to Celebrate Autoshite coming back, have a glorious high resolution colour picture of a Mk10 Invacar  

 

 

(with the square profile recessed head lamps and alloy? wheels you would almost think its a 1970s design rather then one from 1957!)

but I know if stuart needs one if nothing else regardless I think he should have at least have one picture of a Mk10 as he has/had a few master catalogs of all Ministry invalid vehicles from various ages, and they generally contain a mug shot of each vehicle in said catalog

which is where the Stanley Mk7 picture in his small book comes from for example, so im sure he could have gotten a Mk10 picture from there if he wants/needs to (but he also now has the above Mk10 picture from the Greeves archive)

I know there is a Mk11 picture in the Ministry catalog at least, as @plasticvandan posted the Mk11 page from a master catalog he got from stuart, but sadly it got deleted before I could save it when he purged all his posts from my thread a bit over a year ago 

(but was the first time I had actually seen a Mk11!)

 

in fact I would not be surprised at all if the Invacar Mk10's Ministry mug shot features in his big book  (if simon can actually get it published!)

 

but yeah the Invacar Mk10-11 really is the "forgotten" invacar, and I think the only Invacar model where no examples are known to survive sadly

well that Invacar Mk10 scale prototype survives somewhere, so I guess that counts?  

 

On 12/05/2020 at 22:09, LightBulbFun said:

Invacar, Mk10 Prototype, current status from the greeves collection otherwise Unknown

 

 

[martc]

7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

 

Those wheels on the Mk10 and 10a are ace - very much 'jet age' unlike the boring efforts on the Mk11.

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, martc said:

Those wheels on the Mk10 and 10a are ace - very much 'jet age' unlike the boring efforts on the Mk11.

Yeah the wheels on the Invacar Mk10/10A where Invacars own cast ally jobs (they had their own foundry also used for making greeves motorcycles) 

but clearly with the Mk11 the ministry requested invacar switch over to the 1957 standard specification Dunlop LP 591 12 inch steel wheel, I guess for to reduce parts holding etc which remained in use until 1975, when the Model 70 finally switched to 10 inch Dunlop LP 1161 wheels (although even the last remanufactured  Electric Tippen Delta's from 1978 where still on 12 inch wheels)

but the last machine to switch to 1957 specification wheels was the Tippen Delta which managed to hold out on 16 inch wheels until about 1965!, with them only finally switching to 12 inch wheels with The Tippen Delta 6, and the oldest machine to have 12 inch wheels was the Stanley Argson, Model 44,  with some late service ones being retrofitted with the aforementioned 12 inch wheels in place of their original 19 inch rear and 15 inch front wire wheels  

(the Invacar Mk10 is notable in that it was the only 1957 specification and last invalid vehicle to still actually be an invalid carriage in that in it was under the 254Kg weight limit for invalid carriages)

[martc]

40 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah the wheels on the Invacar Mk10/10A where Invacars own cast ally jobs (they had their own foundry also used for making greeves motorcycles)

That'll be the cast alloy down tube  frames that made Greeves stand out...

Of course nowadays many bikes have cast alloy frames, but back in the 50's and 60's it was quite a thing. My MZ TS125 (and 2 x 150's) had cast alloy rear mudguards which where very unusual and something Honda should have considered for the Cub, any how, I digress...

[bobdisk]

The Bubblecar Museum are selling some cars and parts on eBay, but, it seems, not the Invacar.  I called them this morning and someone was kind to call me back and say that whatever is or will be for sale will go through eBay.   There might be some more things, and to keep a watch there.  The sellers eBay name is "Mandbu_28"

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/mandbu_28/m.html?item=363153039126&hash=item548d9b9f16%3Ag%3AJ1cAAOSwzDxfk-lf&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

[Mr Pastry]

@LightBulbFunFound this while looking for an Austin 7 Hamblin Cadet special I restored years ago. Not the best photo, but apparently invalid car bodies built by Hamblin in 1957.

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

@LightBulbFunFound this while looking for an Austin 7 Hamblin Cadet special I restored years ago. Not the best photo, but apparently invalid car bodies built by Hamblin in 1957.

ohh thats very interesting! and very cool!

are Hamblin a body builders or such? those look strongly like Barrett Midget body shells, but its said that the Midget was only introduced in 1959 not 1957 so thats very curious!

and prior to the Barret Midget was the barret Minor

(of which their look to be a couple different versions/marks? but research is still on going)

 

[LightBulbFun]

This is very interesting! looks like the company was S.E. Hamblin Ltd and indeed they made fibreglass body shells (clearly for W&F barrett Ltd...) 

https://www.minimarcos.org.uk/gallery/hamblin/index.html

(theres a war of the worlds/attack of the 4 legged invalid cars joke in there somewhere LOL)

[Mr Pastry]

I believe that Tom Hamblin of that family is still active and takes an interest in the surviving specials, he may have some info on the Barretts. 

 

[LightBulbFun]

34 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

I believe that Tom Hamblin of that family is still active and takes an interest in the surviving specials, he may have some info on the Barretts. 

ah thats cool is there a contact page for him somewhere or such?

(if Barrett Midget bodies where really made by an Austin 7 re-body builder, then they really do have @barrett's name all over them, literally  )

[Mr Pastry]

1 minute ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah thats cool is there a contact page for him somewhere or such?

Don't know, but probably via one of the Austin 7 clubs. or the Fairthorpe club who deal with all kinds of interesting fibreglass tat.

[Mr Pastry]

Austin 7 Clubs Association has the Hamblin Register address and link.  

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Austin 7 Clubs Association has the Hamblin Register address and link.  

ah thanks   ill wait a few days to wait for responses here and see what stuart has to say on the subject then ill send off an email if needed  

[Mr Pastry]

I hope you can get some info.  I may in fact contact them myself re my Cadet, which seems to have gone off the radar.  Off topic I know, but this was it before and after.    Brush painted in authentic style, which shows what you can do with old fibreglass .

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, Mr Pastry said:

I hope you can get some info.  I may in fact contact them myself re my Cadet, which seems to have gone off the radar.  Off topic I know, but this was it before and after.    Brush painted in authentic style, which shows what you can do with old fibreglass .

Oh cool, looks good  do you know its registration number? perhaps you could check for keeper changes or the Date the last v5c was issued or such for clues as to its whereabouts 

(and dont worry im not fussy about going "off topic" this is after-all my general ramble thread, technically does not have a set topic, just happens that I mostly ramble on about invacars in here  )  

[Mr Pastry]

We should have a shonky kitcars and specials thread for suchlike, but if you want a bit of a ramble  - they are good looking cars until you stand next to one and realise how small they are.  Those are 15 inch wheels, and a driver of average height can see over the screen quite easily.

The number was DKN 6  which doesn't seem to exist.  I rebuilt it for a client and it had been in their family for years, dad or granddad had built it, so presumably they had an old logbook.  I MOT'd it on that number,  didn't need a V5 for MOT at the time, and the owners drove it around for a while,  but I don't know whether they taxed it.  It then came up for sale IIRC in Classic Car Weekly with that number on it, and I don't know anymore.  I would have expected that the number would have been sold on at some stage, but it doesn't come up at all.  I would guess that it had been off the road so long that Swansea wouldn't recognise the number. so it would have been re-registered.  I'm not that bothered, but it would be nice to know if it's still around.

 

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

We should have a shonky kitcars and specials thread for suchlike, but if you want a bit of a ramble  - they are good looking cars until you stand next to one and realise how small they are.  Those are 15 inch wheels, and a driver of average height can see over the screen quite easily.

The number was DKN 6  which doesn't seem to exist.  I rebuilt it for a client and it had been in their family for years, dad or granddad had built it, so presumably they had an old logbook.  I MOT'd it on that number,  didn't need a V5 for MOT at the time, and the owners drove it around for a while,  but I don't know whether they taxed it.  It then came up for sale IIRC in Classic Car Weekly with that number on it, and I don't know anymore.  I would have expected that the number would have been sold on at some stage, but it doesn't come up at all.  I would guess that it had been off the road so long that Swansea wouldn't recognise the number. so it would have been re-registered.  I'm not that bothered, but it would be nice to know if it's still around.

 

lets see, somewhat sadly unsurprisingly DKN6 is currently on retention it was last on a Toyota RAV 4 which was given the now private plate DKN6 when new, but it was taken off in 2003 with the vehicle being given the age related plate LN51VVT but since 2017 is currently wearing the plate 39PO

which has a couple amusing MOT advisories LOL

if you remember the chassis number/VIN of the vehicle then I can look it up and hopefully tell you what registration it now wears on the DVLA system   (feel free to PM me the Chassis/VIN No if you dont feel comfortable sharing it on the thread)

[Mr Pastry]

Thank you for that, it's good to know that much.  Sadly I don't know the chassis number, though I did check it at the time to ID the chassis.  This was in 1996, and I don't think I have any records going back that far.  I do have some photos of the chassis but nothing that shows the number tag, so that's probably as far as we can get.   The car does have some unique features which I would know if I saw it again, so will just have to look out for it.

[plasticvandan]

This is fascinating,partly as I now live five miles from Sherborne! My grandad used to work on Barretts when he was a repairer in the 60s.