Elderly Merc Estates, What Should I Know?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Ignore the rusting three pointed stuff.

 

A thousand pounds:

 

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802234011233?transmission=Manual&radius=1501&fuel-type=Petrol&advertising-location=at_cars&make=VOLVO&model=V70&sort=sponsored&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=sk105jz&page=1

 

Cambelts are easy by the way.

 

 

 

 

[Talbot]

The plumbing for the turbo fouls the steering box from memory with the W124 - so you can't get a right hooking turbodiesel.  If you want a blower, you need to 'upgrade' to the w210.

Which has the most amusing* wiggle in the exhaust pipe to get around the steering shaft. So much so that I think the RHD models are rated at a couple of BHP less than the LHD ones as the wiggle is a bit restrictive.

[davehedgehog31]

Wrong thread chaps! Trying to comment on the Anxious thread and sounded like I was just bashing old Mercs.

[forddeliveryboy]

I've run S124s, 210s and fwd Volvos from 850-shaped V70s to mid-2000 V70s, all diseasels. MB material quality declined (from v high) after 1992, Volvo's quality dropped a bit (from v high) after 2001. The only significant rust bother I ever had was on a 1996 S124 which I bought rusty (and crazy cheap) from the Aberdeen area, cheap steel and poor paint, but it remained solid in the important bits. The 24v engine was more economical over 90mph, but I'd take an OM603 for everything else.

 

If there was a fortnightly commute to Eastern Europe I'd have a 1989 300TD or early 210 over any Volvo - high quality design becomes increasingly felt after a thousand miles mostly over 100mph, but for chewing around on England's overcrowded slower roads I have a Volvo.

 

The 90s V70s are made out of really good materials and have a homespun feeling after modern Euroboxes, they're tough and simple. Lack of suspension travel can be annoying, depending on the road. The 2000-cars went the other way with the suspension, but are a thoroughly modern and high-quality design, I rate them. If they'd built them to the same quality and electrical simplicity of what preceded them, they'd be legends.

 

A grand would buy a decent Swede of either shape, whereas it would be the deposit for the German.

Edited April 24, 2018 by forddeliveryboy

[HMC]

I've had the lot. Check rear subframe mounts on all. They all rot there and s124/s210 bound for the uk market all had self levelling rear suspension which is an added complication but makes them superb load loggers. Rock hard ride = blown spheres but not hard to diy replace. Spring cups (notorious on 210 but I had 2 late 124s fuck up there) I would buy a nice one at 2k+ with no issues rather than a sub 1k heap that will soon swallow a grand and never be as god as that clean 2k motor you should have bought #im not bitter

[forddeliveryboy]

Buying a steel structure which has endured 25+ winters of salt-charged spray is a real problem. The 124 has a good body but they're as complex as 70s Citroëns but in an anxiety-ridden, lacking-any-flair German way.

 

If I were spending 124 money on a 90s barge it'd probably go on a A6 quattro diesel, the one based on the 1983 100. They're as simple as and better-riding than a 90s V70, galvanised (except front wings) and have an inline engine and box for Moggie1000-like access. The quattro versions were better built than 2wd versions and felt quite special.

[Shirley Knott]

The longer this thread gets, the more tempted I become by the idea that the answer might well involve a Volvo badge.  

 

I'm prepared to admit that I may well be about to make a massive U-turn here 

 

I had part ownership in a cheap manual S80 D5 around this time last year and quite liked that...

 

RE V70's, I just can't get along with the way the earlier models look, but the later ones seem to have electrical gremlins (Clocks and throttle modules to name but a few). All that being said I wouldn't rule them out but would look to find a manual/2.4 NA madel to minimise the chances of expense. The car posted above (Thanks  Reverend) looks ace.

 

I've also got a bit of a soft spot for late 240 estates too, any wisdom on these?

 

I've spotted this low mile manual 940 virtually on my doorstep with the 'Super rare 531 head'....https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804225798486?radius=100&make=VOLVO&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=dh33ry&advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&sort=price-asc&page=1

 

^Any thoughts? Fair price?

 

I must admit to being tempted by the older Swedes, purely on the basis of simplicity, although I'm also attracted by the vintage edge and looks 

[Dirk Diggler]

 

I must admit to being tempted by the older Swedes, purely on the basis of simplicity, although I'm also attracted by the vintage edge and looks 

A good 850 is the sweet spot for me; brilliant 5 cylinder engines, petrol or diesel and a reliable and surprisingly good 4 speed and lock up auto box

 

I have an 850 2.0 auto and a p2 v70 d5 manual; the 850 is a better car in every way.

 

The 850, like rwd volvos is a a sit up car and practical estate, the v70 more low slung and less practical (Volvo had an xc90 to flog at that stage)

[lesapandre]

I must admit to being tempted by the older Swedes, purely on the basis of simplicity, although I'm also attracted by the vintage edge and looks

 

 

[Shirley Knott]

^ fnar fnar

[rml2345]

Wee bit pricey for a 940 IMHO but it looks in really good order. 531 is essentially the full fat Turbo head with better intake design and bigger combustion chambers but I can't see why it'd add that much except to a serious Volvo licker.

Never had a 240 but from what I've heard they feel a much older car to drive than the 7/900s and those feel old compared to the 850s etc. They also rust in that inside out way.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I've run S124s, 210s and fwd Volvos from 850-shaped V70s to mid-2000 V70s, all diseasels. MB material quality declined (from v high) after 1992, Volvo's quality dropped a bit (from v high) after 2001. The only significant rust bother I ever had was on a 1996 S124 which I bought rusty (and crazy cheap) from the Aberdeen area, cheap steel and poor paint, but it remained solid in the important bits. The 24v engine was more economical over 90mph, but I'd take an OM603 for everything else.

 

If there was a fortnightly commute to Eastern Europe I'd have a 1989 300TD or early 210 over any Volvo - high quality design becomes increasingly felt after a thousand miles mostly over 100mph, but for chewing around on England's overcrowded slower roads I have a Volvo.

 

The 90s V70s are made out of really good materials and have a homespun feeling after modern Euroboxes, they're tough and simple. Lack of suspension travel can be annoying, depending on the road. The 2000-cars went the other way with the suspension, but are a thoroughly modern and high-quality design, I rate them. If they'd built them to the same quality and electrical simplicity of what preceded them, they'd be legends.

 

A grand would buy a decent Swede of either shape, whereas it would be the deposit for the German.

 

 

 

Ah see, I had a 56 plate S60 D5 for 5000 miles. It's forte was motorway work where it would sit at 80-90 and felt like it would do that forever - a squeeze on the throttle and 110, all on the comfiest seats I've ever sat in. And, because it's just ten or so years old, the underside still resembles a car as opposed to a Cornish shipwreck. 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

 

I've also got a bit of a soft spot for late 240 estates too, any wisdom on these?

 

 

Great cars, but so old now and they feel prehistoric to drive. Plus scene tax yo.

 

Front drive Big Ovlov's are just fine but a really clean 740 Estate HAS to start appreciating in value. W124 Wagens are all rotten, fucked, expensive, hewn from granite etc but 940/940 Estates aren't. Folk will wake up to these one day.

[dozeydustman]

Just to throw a spanner in the works.....

 

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C962103

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

At £500 more than a 405, that's srs valu. 

 

Brilliant estate cars. 

[dozeydustman]

Brilliant estate cars. 

 

 

I know - grandad bought one brand new in 1983, and gave it to my dad in 1987, and he ran it until 1998 before selling it for export to Nigeria when the clutch finally went at 170k. Wouldn't surprise me if it's still going strong in Africa.

[Mrs6C]

When in doubt, have both...

 

 

IMHO the 1988-90 Volvo 740 2.3 GLE estate with its electric windows, sunroof and heated leather seats (leather was standard unless with pale metallic green or blue paint in which case nice velvety cloth) with an automatic gearbox is a lovely thing. With a galvanised body and aluminium tailgate, they also laugh in the face of winter and spit on the shoes of salt...

 

The 'pre-shoulders' Volvo 850/V70 is also a really nice car, for all the usual Volvo reasons. The loadspace is a bit smaller than the 740, but four bales of hay still fit in the back. Mine is a 1999 T5 automatic, so it's nicely appointed inside as well as being very swift.

 

The Mercedes W124 estate is a worthy beast too, though more likely to have cloth seats with no heating. Of the various Six-cylinder and I have/ have had, the 300 12v engine was probably the nicest, with plenty of go and six cylinders, but more frugal than the 24v. The current car is a 200TE automatic and we acquired it from a fellow AS member about four years ago. It's comfy, spacious, well-built and just gets on with the job. There is also a bit of a sense of occasion every time its three-pointed star is followed up the road.

 

All three cars do a fine job of carrying huge loads and also canoes. All can be used for camping with their long loadbeds. The Volvo 740 has the best shape for hauling large rectangular things like American refrigerators and settees but all have plenty of room.

 

Any of them should be a nice experience for you and there are still enough around to make finding a nice one not too hard. They aren't that costly either.

 

 

[Shirley Knott]

^They both look like beautiful cars. Truly envious!

 

Thanks to everyone who's been good enough to chime in thus far, loads of info and great craic too

[Bag'O'Spanners]

Do you really need an estate? This has lots of space....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1989-VOLVO-740-LIMOUSINE-GENUINE-30-000-FROM-NEW-RARE-SHOW-CAR-VIP-ONE-OFF/282929976453?hash=item41dff0d485:g:n70AAOSw0Pxa1yoy

[Ghosty]

Better, that's what.

 

[garethj]

I took advice on what frugal estate car to buy and the Phase 1 V70 diesel was the popular choice. Manual gearbox gets more mpg which is handy for me doing 15000 miles a year but at your mileage just buy one that feels good.

 

I’ve had it for a few years now, which for me is astounding; normally I get itchy feet after 6 months but this Volvo just does everything so well and is so cheap to run.

[richardmorris]

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C984586

[richardmorris]

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C690274

[forddeliveryboy]

Garethj, bit the same for me, although this one's the auto. I'm surprised how much I've come to respect it, probably the combination of high quality components and materials, really good seats, a superb radio (original top one), simplicity and the winning combo of easy power and 50mpg averages when beyond the short trips, when it's more like 42-45.

 

Over 60k and 3 hardish years it's needed just a set of dampers (which I always knacker on my cars, partly due to bad N Yorkshire roads) beyond servicing, tyres and brakes. And a rear wiper motor, which I haven't yet replaced.

[Shirley Knott]

Right,

 

I've given this some serious thought, I've also performed a very scientific 'deep drill' of cars available within a 100 mile radius of Cassa Eunos... Almost all Merc shite within my budget and or reach either looks visibly crusty or has a litany of MOT advisories detailing tin worm-centric woes

 

As a few of you pointed out, the answer to my question RE 'what should I know' about old Merc estates is plainly that I ought to be looking to buy a manual Volvo instead.

 

Short list I've come up with works like this....

 

V70 Off the list on the basis of the P1 cars looking too 'Nineties' for my taste and the later cars propensity for electrickey based misery and/or complexity beyond my feeble skillset.

 

240 Apparently rusts from the inside out. I hate it when stuff does that. Also expensive because of scene tax (Yo)

 

700 series: Fair game

 

800 series: Fair game

 

900 series: Fair game

 

The search starts now. Again, hats off to all of the kind folk who offered opinions/wisdom/links/experiences here

 

Cars to look at this weekend (If still available) include...

 

Mmmm, 'Sort after' but wants a few little 'Bits and peaces'....

 

https://www.gumtree.com/p/volvo/volvo-940-2.3-lpt-classic-petrol-/1296287274

 

'Super rare 531 head'...

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804225798486?radius=100&make=VOLVO&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=dh46au&advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&sort=price-asc&page=1

 

and 'A MODERN CLASSIC'

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-850-2-5-10-v-estate/122903950337?hash=item1c9da57401:g:qMsAAOSwRQxaVkLZ

 

Any thoughts on the above (And their pricing) would be welcome.

[Dan_ZTT]

Not entirely sure that I get the Volvo thing. Never had one. Bloke across the road has one, an 03 convertible, not sure what model.

He is often found underneath/under the bonnet swearing and asking to borrow tools.

Got to be a C70. Maybe just bad luck with his, I had a 52-reg one as my only car for 5 years / 50k miles and only had one FTP when the alternator gave up. Probably still my favourite car, would have another without hesitation. V70 is the same engine with estate body so I'd have faith in one.

[rml2345]

Of the three I'd have the '531' head or the 850. Both can be had cheaper if distance isn't an issue but not everyone wants to mount an SVM style collection mission of 700 miles.

Either should last pretty much indefinitely if looked after.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Right,

 

I've given this some serious thought, I've also performed a very scientific 'deep drill' of cars available within a 100 mile radius of Cassa Eunos... Almost all Merc shite within my budget and or reach either looks visibly crusty or has a litany of MOT advisories detailing tin worm-centric woes

 

As a few of you pointed out, the answer to my question RE 'what should I know' about old Merc estates is plainly that I ought to be looking to buy a manual Volvo instead.

 

Short list I've come up with works like this....

 

V70 Off the list on the basis of the P1 cars looking too 'Nineties' for my taste and the later cars propensity for electrickey based misery and/or complexity beyond my feeble skillset.

 

240 Apparently rusts from the inside out. I hate it when stuff does that. Also expensive because of scene tax (Yo)

 

700 series: Fair game

 

800 series: Fair game

 

900 series: Fair game

 

The search starts now. Again, hats off to all of the kind folk who offered opinions/wisdom/links/experiences here

 

Cars to look at this weekend (If still available) include...

 

Mmmm, 'Sort after' but wants a few little 'Bits and peaces'....

 

https://www.gumtree.com/p/volvo/volvo-940-2.3-lpt-classic-petrol-/1296287274

 

'Super rare 531 head'...

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804225798486?radius=100&make=VOLVO&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=dh46au&advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&sort=price-asc&page=1

 

and 'A MODERN CLASSIC'

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-850-2-5-10-v-estate/122903950337?hash=item1c9da57401:g:qMsAAOSwRQxaVkLZ

 

Any thoughts on the above (And their pricing) would be welcome.

 

 

Any of those, basically. Buy all three, store two and you will never need to buy another car.

[sierraman]

Values of 740s seem all over the shop, some are a few hundred quid others are a few grand. A few hundred quid one probably better buy.

[SierraMikeHotel]

 

 

Got to be a C70. Maybe just bad luck with his...

Agreed. Friends have an early one that just soldiers on forever. I had an S40 (saloon version of the same thing), which I absolutely loved and again just ran and ran. I'd have another, in fact I was going to but it sold to the person who looked at it before me.

 

Volvos are growers. They're not flashy and impressive so people who've never had one think they're boring, but people who've owned them tend to stick with them for good reason.