New patient arrival- poorly berlingo HDI; 'SMOKIN!!!

[HMC]

The story goes i have a thing for facelift berlingos with the full length sunroof. Hard to find- not so on the pre facelift but very much so on the later models. My ideal combo would be facelift/full length roof/ 2.0 HDI. I had one, sold it and regretted it! One with MOT and lots spent but with a running problem cropped up and a deal was done with the seller for a little above scrap money....

It's due to be dropped off sometime soon. So the issue- starts and idles fine, but low on power and pushes out black smoke. Obviously diagnostic matters can start properly when the car is here, but any hunches or previous experience you could offer? I'm thinking optimisticallypossibly a dodgy maf or a boost leak, but of course it could be something a bit more terminal!

[twosmoke300]

Maf sensor and/ or boost leak are deffo most likely

[Zelandeth]

I think it's the 16v version of this which has somewhat of a habit of lunching turbos due to too fine a mesh filter being used in the oil feed banjo supplying the turbo with oil...This clogs, starves the turbo of oil which has predictable results.  Especially if maintenance is skimped on.  Changing the turbo will usually bring short lived results unless the offending screen is removed.  I don't recall the same tales of woe being told about the 8v version, which seems to largely be hailed as quite a solid power unit.

 

Google's your friend...I may well just be a total idiot and have the 8/16v switched around there!  It's an engine I've little direct experience with, just what I've read on another forum, being a long-term fan of the Xantia which used the HDi in its last few years.

 

Blingos are decent motors though, definitely among the most practical and flexible cars out there - and if the one I had a brief shot of a few years back was anything to go by, handle a good deal better than they've really any right to.

 

A worthy spiritual successor to the C15 I think.

 

 

 

Before going any deeper into this, check the obvious first...

 

Any collapsed intake pipes upstream of the turbo?  Blocked/collapsed air filter?  If the intercooler's visible it's quite often possible to see a leak by an oily spot being visible - if it's belching smoke a boost leak should be pretty easy to find.

[panhard65]

If it is an 8 valve hdi 2.0 then I have an 806 Peugeot that I am breaking that might have bits to sort it.

[Dave_Q]

I think it will be an 8v.

 

Maybe the EGR stuck open if you don't find anything wrong with the maf or any holes.

[Cleon-Fonte]

I think it's the 16v version of this which has somewhat of a habit of lunching turbos due to too fine a mesh filter being used in the oil feed banjo supplying the turbo with oil...This clogs, starves the turbo of oil which has predictable results.  Especially if maintenance is skimped on.  Changing the turbo will usually bring short lived results unless the offending screen is removed.  I don't recall the same tales of woe being told about the 8v version, which seems to largely be hailed as quite a solid power unit.

 

Google's your friend...I may well just be a total idiot and have the 8/16v switched around there!  It's an engine I've little direct experience with, just what I've read on another forum, being a long-term fan of the Xantia which used the HDi in its last few years.

 

You're thinking of the eminently destructible Ford-developed 1.6 lump there, this'll be fitted with the early 8v 2.0 unit (original Blingos never got the 16v) that's virtually unbreakable.

 

Watching this thread with interest as a friend's 306 is suffering similar symptoms and we've drawn a blank with the simple checks we've done so far.

[chancer]

Having run a 2.0hdi 8v for several years the only time its been down on power an put out black smoke is when the turbo went tits up!! To be fair it was my fault...i ran the van over 5years without changing the oil! Since changing turbo and feed pipes etc the only maintenance ive given it is a good old italian tune up to blow out the cobwebs. Get oil changed before putting into service an cross fingers...all being well u have a cracking motor there

[Anthony]

Assuming that this is the older 2.0 8v HDi rather than the newer 1.6 16v:

 

MAF's do cause lack of power, but typically no smoke as they usually fail reading low airflow (so limiting fuel injected). You can unplug it and see if it fixes the issue, as that'll force the ECU to ignore the MAF and run on predefined values. I've never tried it on the late multiplex cars like yours, but certainly works on the earlier pre-multiplex ones (306's etc) without even throwing an engine check light.

 

Turbos are pretty hardy on these and don't generally fail, although equally it's not unheard of.

 

Given the lack of power and presence of smoke, I'd check for a boost leak. There's no intercooler on the HDi 90 engine, just a sort of S-shaped plastic pipe that goes from the turbo to the inlet elbow with a short rubber pipe/coupler either end which can split.

 

EGR valves can stick open which will make it a bit smokey and poor MPG, but easily blanked off with no ill-effects. TBH I do this on every HDi anyway as it stops the inlet getting filled with black tar-like sludge - there was a seller on eBay selling them for a few quid if you want to save the effort of making one. The EGR itself is a pig to access (on a 306 anyway - imagine the Berlingo is similar) but you can just blank the EGR pipe where it joins the inlet elbow to disable it.

 

Being a later engine, this will have a doser valve on the inlet elbow that's meant to boost the efficiency of the EGR system - I've never seen what happens if that gets jammed shut, but I guess it's feasible it could happen

[djoptix]

I think it's the 16v version of this which has somewhat of a habit of lunching turbos due to too fine a mesh filter being used in the oil feed banjo supplying the turbo with oil...This clogs, starves the turbo of oil which has predictable results.  Especially if maintenance is skimped on. 

 

Someone's already said it but fuck it, I've clicked the button now... that's the 1.6. The 2.0 16v is a great engine, the 2.0 8v is IMO the best mass-produced diesel engine ever made.

 

My guess would be turbot failure but hopefully it will just be a boost leak

[Zelandeth]

Ah, it's the 1.6 version then...teach me to trust my memory!

[bigfella2]

According to check I have just done, allegedly it's a 2.0hdi which would be a result.

[ruffgeezer]

The 1.6hdi came out in these around 55/06 plate iirc.

 

As has been said, smoke is a sign of either not enough air or too much fuel, unless it's blue smoke of course!

[HMC]

This arrives on a beavertail tomorrow. Yes, it's the 2.0HDI 90 8v without intercooler, which as some of you have confirmed, I had in mind from research a few years back was a rugged and reliable unit that is a fairly safe bet (in theory!) I've already bought a blanking plate for the egr valve off e bay on the basis that it sort of takes it out of the equation from a diagnosis point of view and it has its benefits to the intake system even if it's operating correctly. I only live a short, flat distance from work with a 30 limit so I hope to not hold anyone up en route back!

[Supernaut]

Once you get it sorted, get a stage 1 map on it.

 

I had a stage 1 map on a 306 HDi a few years back. 125hp and roughly 200lb/ft in a car that size was fun.

[Bucketeer]

Matthew, this is an intervention. You need to step away from eBay. You need to cold turkey Auto Trader. Perhaps take up philately or badger watching or summat. It's for your own good. We all love you and we're here for you.

[HMC]

Well it's here. It's a lot more of a pinky colour than the photos suggest, at least to my eyes. I've got a pink car. Also there isn't any black smoke it's more bluey grey. No smoke at idle. Power output seems ok but the turbo (I think) is making a nasty noise when it's spooling under way. Otherwise it's a nice tidy and surprisingly dent free berlingo.

[Talbot]

Funny you say about having a full length webastard sunroof with a 2.0HDi90 engine being an ideal spec.. I've just recently bought almost that exact same vehicle (with A/C as an added bonus!) And it's the second one we've had. (First one ended up sideways in a ditch.. long story)

 

Grey/bluey smoke under load suggests shagged turbo seals, or possibly (but unlikely) a siezed open EGR valve. One way to check... drive it below turbo-spool rpm for a goodly few miles, and then give it a heavy hoofing, if the smoke is *much* worse, then something is leaking and building up. If it's no worse, then something is wrong with the combustion, be it knackered injectors or the possible open EGR valve.

 

If you need a turbo, I sold the engine from our first bling-o to dean36663 (or something like that!) of this forum, and his intention was to strip it for some bits. He will likely still have any bits you need.

[Talbot]

Did they ever offer an autobox on these? always liked how they look

Never. The only autos were petrol 1.6 models I believe.

[Zelandeth]

I'd start out by cleaning the EGR etc, it'll probably be due doing anyway.

 

A bit worrying to hear the turbo is making unpleasant noises though - in the same breath though a boost leak can also result in what sounds like an utterly shot turbo.

 

...been there on a Volvo B10M coach once...we were certain from the howling it was making that the turbo was utterly shot...until we found one of the boost pipes (in the most inaccessible place of course) that had totally disintegrated!  Result, horrible noise and much smoke.

[bezzabsa]

congrats on buying what I think is one of the most under rated vehicles out there.. plenty of interior room, good looking, and basically bullet proof